The lies that won the Brexit vote

Malced said:
Well the obvious one is the autonomy we had to effectively invest and gamble on numerous covid vaccine candidates, enabling us to give vaccines to our population well ahead of the EU.

Other than that, there’s many soft benefits. The financial pros and cons need evaluating over time. A generation perhaps. The decision to leave was not all about money. So if we have a little less growth than we would have had in the first 5 years that is acceptable to many, and no reason to rejoin the EU.
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As SMEs struggle to export to Europe or have to close down.
 
glasshalffull said:
OK so what is this cup of tea and how do we get to both drink it and keep it?
What is the plan?
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To be honest, it wasn’t my analogy, and isn’t one I subscribe to.
I think Wizzard quoted it from Joe Lycett. The quote for me didn’t make sense because it suggested feast or famine, all or nothing.
My position on Brexit has always been pretty relaxed. It wasn’t too bad being in the EU. I wouldn’t have been overly bothered if we’d stayed in. (But I was aware of EU mission creep and overreach. It had become like a runaway train for which we had no emergency brake. The UK eventually shouted ‘stop this train - I want to get off’. Even if that meant we were at risk of going from a first class carriage to second one. Ok that’s enough of the train analogies. They’re worse than the tea ones.)

So when we voted to leave I was ok with it. I knew as the UK we would make out best of it. I knew it wouldn’t be a disaster. I knew we would be proud and forge our own future. But I also knew there’d be some pain in leaving. That’s just how it is.

The answer as to whether we we’re better off being in the EU or out is not straight forward. There’s numerous ways of looking at it. Financially it’s incredibly hard to evaluate because as La La says, there’s been so many other bigger influences on our economy over the last few years.
Also it’s not a fixed target. Our financial position post Brexit can still improve as we get more trade deals. So today’s evaluation wouldn’t be the same as last years or next years, or in 10 years time.

But it’s not all about finance. How do you put a price on having our autonomy back?

Whilst being quite relaxed about being in or out of the EU, I don’t have time for those that want to blame everything on Brexit. Especially when they won’t concede that there have been other factors at play.
For example, when we had a shortage of lorry drivers, those that had wanted to stay in the EU saw it an opportunity to bemoan Brexit. The shortages were caused by various reasons, mainly pandemic related, and these same shortages were seen across the world. Yet our shortage was all to do with Brexit but shortages around the world were errrr not Brexit. Go figure.

I won’t use the remoaner term anymore but I do think some folk are refusing to accept the result and can’t get over it. That’s a pointless state to be in.

We should all make the best of whatever hand we’re dealt, and for now that’s being outside of the EU. Yeah there’s nothing wrong with analysing being out, and criticising it, but it should be more honest and not just plain old Brexit bashing anytime there’s something less than perfect transpiring in the UK.
 
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Always tangerine said:
What nonsense!
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That’s was sort of the point. It was taking a nonsense analogy and playing about with it.

Or do you think the Joe Lycett analogy was full of sense…..

That’s a rhetorical question by the way. I know the answer already. 😉
 
Malced said:
To be honest, it wasn’t my analogy, and isn’t one I subscribe to.
I think Wizzard quoted it from Joe Lycett. The quote for me didn’t make sense because it suggested feast or famine, all or nothing.
My position on Brexit has always been pretty relaxed. It wasn’t too bad being in the EU. I wouldn’t have been overly bothered if we’d stayed in. (But I was aware of EU mission creep and overreach. It had become like a runaway train for which we had no emergency brake. The UK eventually shouted ‘stop this train - I want to get off’. Even if that meant we were at risk of going from a first class carriage to second one. Ok that’s enough of the train analogies. They’re worse than the tea ones.)

So when we voted to leave I was ok with it. I knew as the UK we would make out best of it. I knew it wouldn’t be a disaster. I knew we would be proud and forge our own future. But I also knew there’d be some pain in leaving. That’s just how it is.

The answer as to whether we we’re better off being in the EU or out is not straight forward. There’s numerous ways of looking at it. Financially it’s incredibly hard to evaluate because as La La says, there’s been so many other bigger influences on our economy over the last few years.
Also it’s not a fixed target. Our financial position post Brexit can still improve as we get more trade deals. So today’s evaluation wouldn’t be the same as last years or next years, or in 10 years time.

But it’s not all about finance. How do you put a price on having our autonomy back?

Whilst being quite relaxed about being in our out of the EU, I don’t have time for those that want to blame everything on Brexit. Especially when they won’t concede that there have been other factors at play.
For example, when we had a shortage of lorry drivers, those that had wanted to stay in the EU saw it an opportunity to bemoan Brexit. The shortages for were caused by various reasons, mainly pandemic related, and these same shortages were seen across the world. Yet our shortage was all to do with Brexit but shortages around the world were errrr not Brexit. Go figure.

I won’t use the remoaner term anymore but I do think some folk are refusing to accept the result and can’t get over it. That’s a pointless state to be in.

We should all make the best of whatever hand we’re dealt, and for now that’s being outside of the EU. Yeah there’s nothing wrong with analysing being out, and criticising it, but it should be more honest and not just plain old Brexit bashing anytime there’s something less than perfect transpiring in the UK.
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How's that autonomy going? Crying because the French won't help keep the borders tight is hardly autonomy.

It's a global economy. To go off on our own is economic madness. End of.
 
Wizaard said:
How's that autonomy going? Crying because the French won't help keep the borders tight is hardly autonomy.

It's a global economy. To go off on our own is economic madness. End of.
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You can say ‘End of’ as if it means you’ve proved a point so definitively there’s no room for any come back. But that’s merely kidding yourself. End of.

See - I just did it!

But your example is misplaced. Autonomy is not measured by something in which we need to work in partnership. We can’t dictate to the French.
 
Malced said:
To be honest, it wasn’t my analogy, and isn’t one I subscribe to.
I think Wizzard quoted it from Joe Lycett. The quote for me didn’t make sense because it suggested feast or famine, all or nothing.
My position on Brexit has always been pretty relaxed. It wasn’t too bad being in the EU. I wouldn’t have been overly bothered if we’d stayed in. (But I was aware of EU mission creep and overreach. It had become like a runaway train for which we had no emergency brake. The UK eventually shouted ‘stop this train - I want to get off’. Even if that meant we were at risk of going from a first class carriage to second one. Ok that’s enough of the train analogies. They’re worse than the tea ones.)

So when we voted to leave I was ok with it. I knew as the UK we would make out best of it. I knew it wouldn’t be a disaster. I knew we would be proud and forge our own future. But I also knew there’d be some pain in leaving. That’s just how it is.

The answer as to whether we we’re better off being in the EU or out is not straight forward. There’s numerous ways of looking at it. Financially it’s incredibly hard to evaluate because as La La says, there’s been so many other bigger influences on our economy over the last few years.
Also it’s not a fixed target. Our financial position post Brexit can still improve as we get more trade deals. So today’s evaluation wouldn’t be the same as last years or next years, or in 10 years time.

But it’s not all about finance. How do you put a price on having our autonomy back?

Whilst being quite relaxed about being in or out of the EU, I don’t have time for those that want to blame everything on Brexit. Especially when they won’t concede that there have been other factors at play.
For example, when we had a shortage of lorry drivers, those that had wanted to stay in the EU saw it an opportunity to bemoan Brexit. The shortages were caused by various reasons, mainly pandemic related, and these same shortages were seen across the world. Yet our shortage was all to do with Brexit but shortages around the world were errrr not Brexit. Go figure.

I won’t use the remoaner term anymore but I do think some folk are refusing to accept the result and can’t get over it. That’s a pointless state to be in.

We should all make the best of whatever hand we’re dealt, and for now that’s being outside of the EU. Yeah there’s nothing wrong with analysing being out, and criticising it, but it should be more honest and not just plain old Brexit bashing anytime there’s something less than perfect transpiring in the UK.
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Fair enough. The trouble with having more autonomy for me is it depends on the quality of our politicians and their policies and decision making as to whether or not it is actually a good thing or not (so far largely not).
It also leaves them much more exposed to lobbying and corruption (of course that happens in the EU, but when Rupert Murdoch explained why he wanted us out of the EU you also knew Brexit was giving much more power in the UK to people like him).
 
Brexit can be respected and we can also be a part of the single market like Norway or Switzerland are.
This is what will happen in the medium term because it will be too tempting for a future government of some sort to ignore - a ~4%-5% risk free boost to the economy whilst still respecting the referendum result. The current hole in the budget is ~50 billion, Brexit is costing the UK government more than that in lost revenue. It's a no-brainer and I'm sure it will happen at some point. It may be dressed up as something else but essentially we will be back in a trading block with the EU within 15 years.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Brexit can be respected and we can also be a part of the single market like Norway or Switzerland are.
This is what will happen in the medium term because it will be too tempting for a future government of some sort to ignore - a ~4%-5% risk free boost to the economy whilst still respecting the referendum result. The current hole in the budget is ~50 billion, Brexit is costing the UK government more than that in lost revenue. It's a no-brainer and I'm sure it will happen at some point. It may be dressed up as something else but essentially we will be back in a trading block with the EU within 15 years.
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No!!! Brexit isn't costing us anything. We're better off....
 
Malced said:
Well the obvious one is the autonomy we had to effectively invest and gamble on numerous covid vaccine candidates, enabling us to give vaccines to our population well ahead of the EU.

Other than that, there’s many soft benefits. The financial pros and cons need evaluating over time. A generation perhaps. The decision to leave was not all about money. So if we have a little less growth than we would have had in the first 5 years that is acceptable to many, and no reason to rejoin the EU.
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Will you please stop writing this rubbish. We would have been able to follow exactly the same path with vaccines as members of the EU. When will you acknowledge that the problem is not Brexit as such, but the particular form (hard) of Brexit adopted by Johnson's government to appease the ERG and Brexit party. Brexit could be successfully implemented, but not in the gorm negotiated. Meanwhile, please stop posting misinformation.
 
Lala said:
A body of highly intelligent individuals from Cambridge including economists. They have a different take.

Always sensible to look at what’s out there from all sources.
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"Dr" Graham Gudgin an honorary research associate. Dr Danii Minogue and Dr Ryan Giggs can chuck their two pennith in as well.
 
kerrytangerine said:
Will you please stop writing this rubbish. We would have been able to follow exactly the same path with vaccines as members of the EU. When will you acknowledge that the problem is not Brexit as such, but the particular form (hard) of Brexit adopted by Johnson's government to appease the ERG and Brexit party. Brexit could be successfully implemented, but not in the gorm negotiated. Meanwhile, please stop posting misinformation.
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Nonsense. We forged our own path and as
a result I’m sure were seen as selfish at first by other countries - as we looked after number 1.
The EU lagged many months behind as they couldn’t move as fast.
The even spat their dummy out and went public and threatened to block our supplies which were coming to us with the input of some EU countries.
If you think politically we could have had the vaccines as quickly as we did, and keep them for ourselves, if we were still in the EU club then you’re utterly deluded.
The only misinformation here is you kidding yourself.
 
Malced said:
Nonsense. We forged our own path and as
a result I’m sure were seen as selfish at first by other countries - as we looked after number 1.
The EU lagged many months behind as they couldn’t move as fast.
The even spat their dummy out and went public and threatened to block our supplies which were coming to us with the input of some EU countries.
If you think politically we could have had the vaccines as quickly as we did, and keep them for ourselves, if we were still in the EU club then you’re utterly deluded.
The only misinformation here is you kidding yourself.
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We succeeded in vaccine development because of our strong science base and great universities.
Brexit has damaged both of these sectors a lot, there is no doubt about that, many different scientists have repeatedly said so. In a previous thread when this was pointed out to you, you were very dismissive even about the head of the Royal Society who voiced his concerns. This damage would effect our ability to act decisively in the future if there was another similar situation.
 
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kerrytangerine said:
Will you please stop writing this rubbish. We would have been able to follow exactly the same path with vaccines as members of the EU. When will you acknowledge that the problem is not Brexit as such, but the particular form (hard) of Brexit adopted by Johnson's government to appease the ERG and Brexit party. Brexit could be successfully implemented, but not in the gorm negotiated. Meanwhile, please stop posting misinformation.
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You're trying to change history. I can still picture Ursula VDL directing the 27 countries to follow their adopted policy of procuring vaccines because the EU was stronger as a group and must work together. Even member states that disagreed were forced into line for the good of the project. But Ursula and her 'experts' cocked it up in a number of ways, first of all by delaying placing their orders. Meanwhile we went ahead alone and achieved the best result. Had we been in the group we would have been coerced to comply in the same way as the other states. As the Borg would have said, assimilation is necessary, resistance is futile.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
We succeeded in vaccine development because of our strong science base and great universities.
Brexit has damaged both of these sectors a lot, there is no doubt about that, many different scientists have repeatedly said so. In a previous thread when this was pointed out to you, you were very dismissive even about the head of the Royal Society who voiced his concerns. This damage would effect our ability to act decisively in the future if there was another similar situation.
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We did incredibly well because we already had a vaccine developed by Oxford university for a previous threat. I can’t remember whether it was one of the Asian flu’s. So we were a long way down the path and Oxford university and AstraZeneca had a great head start.
I’m not denying there’s been issues that have hindered closer working with other countries in the EU. How much of that is unavoidable because of ‘Brexit’ and how much of it is the EU playing hard ball, is up for debate. If the will is there on both sides there’s no reason we can’t keep working closely together albeit under different terms and conditions.
 
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Was it mentioned in the leave campaign that it would take 'generations' to see any real benefit?

Now we're saying that of the older generation who voted for it won't be around to see the benefits, and the younger generations who didn't want it have to live with with it until then.

I thought you were supposed to try and make things better for your kids, hopefully the next generation will have a bit more sense.
 
TheRealKingKenny said:
Was it mentioned in the leave campaign that it would take 'generations' to see any real benefit?

Now we're saying that of the older generation who voted for it won't be around to see the benefits, and the younger generations who didn't want it have to live with with it until then.

I thought you were supposed to try and make things better for your kids, hopefully the next generation will have a bit more sense.
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No one has said it will take ‘generations’. Stop making things up to make your point. Clearly we don’t go from being in the EU one day, to having a completely fully developed and maximised way of working the day after. Extracting ourselves from the EU after 40 years is complex and will take time.

So it’s completely flawed to look at things in the very short term and make conclusions that Brexit is bad. You are free to do that of course, but it’s completely logical to say the evaluation will be much more valid over a longer time period.
 
Malced said:
No one has said it will take ‘generations’. Stop making things up to make your point. Clearly we don’t go from being in the EU one day, to having a completely fully developed and maximised way of working the day after. Extracting ourselves from the EU after 40 years is complex and will take time.

So it’s completely flawed to look at things in the very short term and make conclusions that Brexit is bad. You are free to do that of course, but it’s completely logical to say the evaluation will be much more valid over a longer time period.
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People have literally said generation on this thread and somebody else said Reece-Mogg said 50 years. I'm quoting the thread in relation to the subject of the thread.
 
TheRealKingKenny said:
People have literally said generation on this thread and somebody else said Reece-Mogg said 50 years. I'm quoting the thread in relation to the subject of the thread.
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Yes I said generation. I don’t see anyone saying generations. I’ve no idea what Reece mogg said but the point is Brexit is such a huge change we’re not easily or accurately or fairly going to evaluate it when we do so merely in the short term.
 
Malced said:
Yes I said generation. I don’t see anyone saying generations. I’ve no idea what Reece mogg said but the point is Brexit is such a huge change we’re not easily or accurately or fairly going to evaluate it when we do so merely in the short term.
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Somebody mentioned Mogg's comments earlier in the thread, I haven't said anything crazy so stop being a ** pedant.
 
TheRealKingKenny said:
Somebody mentioned Mogg's comments earlier in the thread, I haven't said anything crazy so stop being a ** pedant.
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You characterised the debates as if one side was saying we have to wait for generations. That’s not the gist of this thread. It’s more that the benefits were obviously not gonna be day 1 or immediate.

If you wanna pick the most extreme timescale (50 years) and use that as a basis for your argument then good for you. Carry on. I’m sure it’s of great relevance.
 
Malced said:
You characterised the debates as if one side was saying we have to wait for generations. That’s not the gist of this thread. It’s more that the benefits were obviously not gonna be day 1 or immediate.

If you wanna pick the most extreme timescale (50 years) and use that as a basis for your argument then good for you. Carry on. I’m sure it’s of great relevance.
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All this because of generations rather than generation, get a grip man, I explained why I said that after you attacked me and it's hardly the crime of the century. Either way it's too ** long and the people were not informed that it would potentially take 10/15/20 or however many years to see the benefits, they got a load of bullshit that hasn't happened.
 
The Brexit we have is the narrow one favoured by the ERG and Farrage delivered via a populist politician ( Mr Johnson) who conned enough English voters in rundown Midlands and northern towns to vote for it not once (2016) but twice (GE 2019). When he was out on his ear they got the next cab of the rank in post for a 40 odd day period of destruction on the economy. They now have Mr Sunak to continue the good work.to deliver the narrow Brexit which when completed will finish the UK as a major player on the European and world. The best way out of this is to get access to EU single market so we can trade with 500m people relatively easily and create jobs etc.
 
"They're all the same these politicians" 🤓

Corbyn was offering you a confirmatory vote a year on. At least an attempt to help people come to a clearer decision so you weren't blindsided.
A ** smart policy! Sorry Ed

Some voters required a little bit more time (1 year) to digest and think about what Brexit actually meant and how it would impact on all of us?

If Blackpool FC's fortunes depended on the lack of nouse of some posters on here we'd be Champions League winners every year!
 
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ElBurroSinNombre said:
We succeeded in vaccine development because of our strong science base and great universities.
Brexit has damaged both of these sectors a lot, there is no doubt about that, many different scientists have repeatedly said so. In a previous thread when this was pointed out to you, you were very dismissive even about the head of the Royal Society who voiced his concerns. This damage would effect our ability to act decisively in the future if there was another similar situation.
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Further to my earlier response, the UK and Switzerland today will enter into a science partnership arrangement. Both countries also still hope to join the European Horizon science programme.

Like I said previously, if the will is there, a way to work together will be realised. Brexit doesn’t at all mean our scientists are unable to work with European partners. It just needs to happen under a different arrangement than if we were still in the EU.
 
Malced said:
Further to my earlier response, the UK and Switzerland today will enter into a science partnership arrangement. Both countries also still hope to join the European Horizon science programme.

Like I said previously, if the will is there, a way to work together will be realised. Brexit doesn’t at all mean our scientists are unable to work with European partners. It just needs to happen under a different arrangement than if we were still in the EU.
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With respect, Switzerland is not a big hitter, doing a deal with them won't make much difference. I've worked on quite a few EU science projects and I can only remember one occasion when a team from Switzerland was involved.
Our scientists are currently unable to work or apply to the Horizon program. A lot of grant applications have been put on ice or shelved as a result. This is a direct result of the Brexit shambles that we are currently enduring. The consequence of this shambles is a slow brain drain. There may be a way back for the UK but damage is being done now.
 
TheRealKingKenny said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

The UK is the only G7 nation whose economy is smaller than it was before the Covid pandemic.
www.bbc.co.uk
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The media can't wait to put the UK into recession and the BOE Governor seems keen to put the boot in by telling the world we're already there. We're not quite there yet and the decision regarding how deep we plunge and how long we plunge for is entirely down to the Chancellor and what he does next. Jeremy Hunt said the upcoming Budget will tackle the root cause of the problems with aims of reducing inflation and protecting the most vulnerable. His objective is to make the recession shallower and quicker to protect businesses.

The first year of the pandemic damaged the UK more than most economies, the energy crisis has made the UK unavoidably poorer and the country is suffering significant labour supply challenges. However, the downturn in manufacturing production is distortive to the extent that the UK is not primarily a manufacturing economy. Stronger performances are evident in business services, finance, science and specialist technologies.

Bleak as the immediate outlook appears for the UK, its economy is still one of the world's largest. Despite soaring inflation, looming recession and recent market turmoil it remains 15% bigger than France's. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is suffering to a similar extent with one third of the global economy either in recession now or expecting to be so in the new year.

Third quarter expansion of 0.2% in France and Germany, and 0.5% in Italy is merely delaying the inevitability of recession in the Eurozone. In simple terms it's virtually impossible for countries in various stages of economic difficulty to share a common currency. Economies that grow and shrink at different rates can't realistically operate under a single currency without the flexibility of floating exchange or some form of balancing involving wealthier economies funding underperforming economies. This anomaly could well come to a head in 2023 with a potentially catastrophic collapse of the Euro.

The next two years will be crucial in determining the UK's standing in global terms. There are many variables that can affect the outcome and it's far too early to make informed predictions as many seem to be doing. Historically this country has been resilient throughout its history and I see no reason why this should change.
 
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tommytwojags said:
The media can't wait to put the UK into recession and the BOE Governor seems keen to put the boot in by telling the world we're already there. We're not quite there yet and the decision regarding how deep we plunge and how long we plunge for is entirely down to the Chancellor and what he does next. Jeremy Hunt said the upcoming Budget will tackle the root cause of the problems with aims of reducing inflation and protecting the most vulnerable. His objective is to make the recession shallower and quicker to protect businesses.

The first year of the pandemic damaged the UK more than most economies, the energy crisis has made the UK unavoidably poorer and the country is suffering significant labour supply challenges. However, the downturn in manufacturing production is distortive to the extent that the UK is not primarily a manufacturing economy. Stronger performances are evident in business services, finance, science and specialist technologies.

Bleak as the immediate outlook appears for the UK, its economy is still one of the world's largest. Despite soaring inflation, looming recession and recent market turmoil it remains 15% bigger than France's. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is suffering turmoil to a similar extent with one third of the global economy either in recession now or expecting to be so in the new year.

Third quarter expansion of 0.2% in France and Germany, and 0.5% in Italy is merely delaying the inevitability of recession in the Eurozone. In simple terms it's impossible for countries in various stages of economic difficulty to share a common currency. Economies that grow and shrink at different rates can't realistically operate under a single currency without the flexibility of floating exchange or some form of balancing involving wealthier economies funding underperforming economies. This anomaly could well come to a head in 2023 with a potentially catastrophic collapse of the Euro.

The next two years will be crucial in determining the UK's standing in global terms. There are many variables that can affect the outcome and it's far too early to make informed predictions as many seem to be doing. Historically this country has been resilient throughout its history and I see no reason why this should change.
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Where did you cut and paste the last few paragraphs from? The Torygragh....
 
Wizaard said:
Go on then. For the hundredth time on this forum, give one tangible benefit of Brexit. 6 years in and nothing. Not one iota of benefit.
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We'd have complete control of our own destiny.

Surely that's a benefit, we can change to suit any way we want if necessary, adapt for any market, a global market.

Just because that hasn't been utilised fully is a bit like if fans got power in a football club, didn't use it right and moaned and blamed the power they got, rather than not taking full advantage of it and just focusing on pies.

The eu was heading in a completely different direction than most in the UK wanted, ever closer Union. Yes we were already on the outside with a special deal, but ultimately the aim of the project is to be a European superstate.

No one here really wanted that, we maybe some but not many.

The way they tricked people, claiming it was a vote for a common market way back when and bit by bit, boring piece of legislation by boring piece of legislation, it became political, like it was always planned to be.

It's a very sly system all about grabbing more power and control.

The fact they tried to lie and trick people into it alone should be enough to dislike the project.

We've seen how they acted during the time we left and covid as examples of what some of their true colours are.

A simple common market people voted for would be fine but people didn't want a load of unheard of burocrats in Brussels dictating laws.

There's plusses and minuses but fishing has been decimated in this country, that was meant to be taken back but as fitting with the way the government handled it, what they got wasn't really a brexit many wanted.

With complete control of our own destiny that mean controlling of immigration, if you have a government strong enough to implement it.

Thats not to say we don't allow people here, but we control it and allow in what we need, not a complete open door.

There's tons of benefits if taken advantage of and many challenges too as its different.

This is the government's list, who obviously aren't taking full advantage of it but still can see some of their aims.

www.gov.uk

The benefits of Brexit

How the UK is capitalising on the benefits of Brexit.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
 
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I think this thread proves beyond reasonable doubt that Brexit has been an utter catastrophe.

I'm certain that most of you would agree that a general election and a 2nd referendum is the least the good hard working people of the United Kingdom deserve.
 
Malced said:
We did incredibly well because we already had a vaccine developed by Oxford university for a previous threat. I can’t remember whether it was one of the Asian flu’s. So we were a long way down the path and Oxford university and AstraZeneca had a great head start.
I’m not denying there’s been issues that have hindered closer working with other countries in the EU. How much of that is unavoidable because of ‘Brexit’ and how much of it is the EU playing hard ball, is up for debate. If the will is there on both sides there’s no reason we can’t keep working closely together albeit under different terms and conditions.
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I’m just checking but people do know that the AZ vaccine is no longer available in the UK?

They’ve given up on its approval in the US too.

I wouldn’t want to speculate as to why as that gets you called “a selfish grandma killer conspiracy theorist” but I’m sure everyone will be made up that the creator got a standing ovation at the tennis and a MBE 🤔
 
Macseasider said:
I think this thread proves beyond reasonable doubt that Brexit has been an utter catastrophe.

I'm certain that most of you would agree that a general election and a 2nd referendum is the least the good hard working people of the United Kingdom deserve.
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A referendum on what though? I don’t think there is a genuine option to go back into the EU, at least not unless on significantly worse terms and having to adopt the Euro, and then only if all 27 countries would accept us back?
 
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JJpool said:
Whenever info is posted on here, that could be perfectly good but comes through someone else's twitter like that, people shit all over it.

So regardless of the content I'll do the same.

Terry ** Christian is your source, the guys an absolute arsehole.😬
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OK - I'll take Terry Christian out of the equation for you so you can't do the internet equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes.
The article that he was referring to was published in the Brexit supporting, right-wing Daily Telegraph and is linked below. It is entitled 'Project Fear was Right All Along'

www.telegraph.co.uk

Project Fear was right all along

Six years of policy confusion and ineptitude has brought a calamitous loss of standing
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
 
glasshalffull said:
A referendum on what though? I don’t think there is a genuine option to go back into the EU, at least not unless on significantly worse terms and having to adopt the Euro, and then only if all 27 countries would accept us back?
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There is no overall desire among voters for the UK to apply for EU membership even though I'm sure we would be welcomed with open arms. Voters wouldn't have elected to leave in the first place if Cameron's minimal requests for change had been allowed by the EC and in due course with similar concessions rejoin might be possible. However, it won't happen in the present decade and the more EU laws that are discarded, the less likely rejoin becomes.
 
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tommytwojags said:
There is no overall desire among voters for the UK to apply for EU membership even though I'm sure we would be welcomed with open arms. Voters wouldn't have elected to leave in the first place if Cameron's minimal requests for change had been allowed by the EC and in due course with similar concessions rejoin might be possible. However, it won't happen in the present decade and the more EU laws that are discarded, the less likely rejoin becomes.
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Yes I agree with a lot of that although most people now think it was a mistake, and I don’t think we are that far away from a push to go back into the Common Market if there are not clear trading improvements in the next few years.
 
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