The lies that won the Brexit vote

Archibald Knox said:
OK, I will have a go at that...

immediate tax rises and cuts to NHS, defence and education budgets?
All coming in Hunt’s November budget.

£30 billion black hole?
Yep, it’s there. Kamikwasi Kwarteng made sure of that.

Inflation?
Currently 10.1% to 10.8%, depending on the data used, and heading upwards. That’s a ten-fold increase in the last 18 months.

Families £4,300 worse off?
Yep, £2K increase on energy bills alone in the past year. Average mortgage interest payments going up by anything up to £4K pa. Income tax thresholds frozen in the face of inflation. And many more costs.

Housing crash?
Housing prices now clearly into a long-term decline. IMHO that’s no bad thing given the unsustainable rises over the past few years with the average house price now something like 10x the average wage.

Migrant camps?
Well, in the past year alone we have taken in something like 40,000 illegal immigrants who the Home Office must have stashed somewhere. Oh yes, mainly disused Army and RAF bases and suchlike. That sounds like “camps”.

As well as evil Putin’s distorted worldview and Russian aggression, the Ukraine war is a massive failure in Western diplomacy, both by the USA and Europe.

Remain lost because Cameron was a naive gambler who had misjudged the mood of many in deprived communities and had not realised that they wanted to take this opportunity to stick it to the elite. He was over-confident because of the Scottish Referendum result. And he was cowardly in not taking on the RWNJs in his own party and useless in trying to disarm Brexit Party propaganda.

That allied with Farage’s xenophobic lying adverts and Cummings’/Johnson’s lies swung it. Bozo was a stupid selfish careerist not knowing the real damage he was doing, while Cummings is a classic “smash it all up” anarchist.
Click to expand...
You do know that those where the lies by the remain camp six years ago and not a single of their bull came true as trying to tie in to the present day after two years of printing money like no one's business is garbage and anyone with half a brain knows it.
 
I’ve said this before but will say it again….

It’s raining on everyone. So everyone is getting wet. But…..

Some people have nice warm coats.

Some people have nice warm coats and umbrellas.

But only one person has stripped off all their clothes and is running around in circles in their underpants; in the rain; laughing, crying and shouting wibble.

And in a nutshell that’s Brexit.

So yes that’s what some of you voted for. And that’s what the rest of us are now stuck with.

But democracy doesn’t mean we can’t keep reminding you of the lunacy of your decision. No matter how much you stamp your feet and shout “It’s not fair. I won!!!”
 
Malced said:
Spot on. It’s bitterness. Like the bitter SNP who lived tor a referendum- which they got, and lost. Yet they’ve not for one second accepted the democratic result of the Scottish people. They think democracy is to keep going until they finally get the result they want - and then that’s it - they would move heaven and earth to prevent any further referendums.
It’s so transparent and so childish and petulant. We live in a democracy. We have voting systems and procedures. When any given democratic event goes against the wants of someone, they cry like a baby, refuse to accept it; and keep bleating and wallowing hoping that their moans will eventually mean they get their petulant way. We only have one life. It’s better to live it positively instead of blaming everyone else for your self inflicted failings. Grow up.
Click to expand...
You're quite the passive aggressive wanker at times ain't you?

Barely a post of yours goes by without an insult, 'self inflicted failings'? Try posting without patronising or criticising, unless you're just naturally a smarmy little fucker?
 
Last edited:
Lytham_fy8 said:
You're quite the passive aggressive wanker at times ain't you?

Barely a post of yours goes by without an insult, 'self inflicted failings'? Try posting without patronising or criticising, unless you're just naturally a smarmy little fucker?
Click to expand...

So you’re a remoaner that thinks the world owes you something I take it? I take a lead from you and your obsession with passive aggressive put downs of other posters. If I had a quid for the amount of times you’d called them gammons I wouldn’t be so worried about inflation.

You’re very selective about such style of posting. It’s ok for you to do it against others. But you don’t like someone else writing that way but only when they have an opinion that differs to yours. Don’t you see how ridiculous your new found stance on posting etiquette is? This new high held standard you want me to adopt clearly doesn’t extend to not using foul language. That type of language just reveals what I already assumed about you.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Voice of Reason said:
Most of the public are thick as shit (like me) ... that's the reason you shouldn't have referendums on such crucial matters.
Click to expand...
HaHa maybe that's the answer. Don't let the great English public loose with a voting paper. If we had a self appointed leader like Putin we wouldn't have these debates. Well let's face it we wouldn't have any debates.
 
Malced said:
There’s high inflation across most economies. We had this thing called covid which meant workers stayed at home and didn’t make things. Then the economies opened back up and demand outstripped supply. Hence inflation. Then there was the Russia v Ukraine special military operation which caused gas and electric to be in less supply and greater demand.
Inflation isn’t Brexit.
Click to expand...
Our growth is below that of any other G7 nation, why is that? Putting barriers up with your biggest trading partners was a stupid move, by all means separate politically if you wish but to come out of the single market and customs unions was crazy. No political party advocated that other than ukip so how did we get to that position?
 
Malced said:
So you’re a remoaner that thinks the world owes you something I take it? I take a lead from you and your obsession with passive aggressive put downs of other posters. If I had a quid for the amount of times you’d called them gammons I wouldn’t be so worried about inflation.

You’re very selective about such style of posting. It’s ok for you to do it against others. But you don’t like someone else writing that way but only when they have an opinion that differs to yours. Don’t you see how ridiculous your new found stance on posting etiquette is? This new high held standard you want me to adopt clearly doesn’t extend to not using foul language. That type of language just reveals what I already assumed about you.
Click to expand...
Assume all you like knobhead.
 
tommytwojags said:
HaHa maybe that's the answer. Don't let the great English public loose with a voting paper. If we had a self appointed leader like Putin we wouldn't have these debates. Well let's face it we wouldn't have any debates.
Click to expand...

Wow man. That's some tenuous leap of logic there ;)
 
Shandypants said:
Our growth is below that of any other G7 nation, why is that? Putting barriers up with your biggest trading partners was a stupid move, by all means separate politically if you wish but to come out of the single market and customs unions was crazy. No political party advocated that other than ukip so how did we get to that position?
Click to expand...
The reason we have low growth isn’t primarily due to Brexit. I don’t deny there will be some impact from Brexit. That’s inevitable as it’s a huge change to extricate ourselves from the EU and to get on a stable footing for our future trading model. It’s going to take some time before we have got all the potential trade deals cemented.
But one of the main reasons for lower growth is the link to very low producvity in the UK. We’ve not invested enough in technology and skills. So we produce less for the same effort than many of our rivals. That’s why we need a tax regime which incentivises investment. The idea that we can tax ‘rich’ companies in order to give the money to the poor is beyond flawed. It’s self defeating. I do agree with a windfall tax against energy companies at this current time, but high taxation of business as a ‘business as usual’ approach, will mean lower investment and will see businesses set up and grow elsewhere (outside of the UK).
 
Malced said:
Spot on. It’s bitterness. Like the bitter SNP who lived tor a referendum- which they got, and lost. Yet they’ve not for one second accepted the democratic result of the Scottish people. They think democracy is to keep going until they finally get the result they want - and then that’s it - they would move heaven and earth to prevent any further referendums.
It’s so transparent and so childish and petulant. We live in a democracy. We have voting systems and procedures. When any given democratic event goes against the wants of someone, they cry like a baby, refuse to accept it; and keep bleating and wallowing hoping that their moans will eventually mean they get their petulant way. We only have one life. It’s better to live it positively instead of blaming everyone else for your self inflicted failings. Grow up.
Click to expand...
I keep hearing that people need to put and shut up by people who keep talking about democracy…

What you at TTJ fail to realise is that I’m not talking about the result of a referendum, that’s long gone.

Brexit isn’t gone though, it hasn’t been sorted and has been a complete shit show. The people who made bold promises and statements aren’t being held account for what they said, despite delivering nothing of note (anybody is free to correct me if there are tangible benefits that I have missed).

What isn’t helpful is people saying things like ‘get over it’, ‘let it go’ and ‘move on’ and acting like everything is fine when it’s clearly been handled terribly and isn’t over.

If we can agree that it hasn’t turned out as anybody wanted we can hold people to account, we can move on and try and find a good solution. Putting your fingers in your ears and saying la la la everything is fine isn’t the answer.

I just think too many people are protecting their egos and refusing to admit it’s been a complete fuck up.
 
Malced said:
The reason we have low growth isn’t primarily due to Brexit. I don’t deny there will be some impact from Brexit. That’s inevitable as it’s a huge change to extricate ourselves from the EU and to get on a stable footing for our future trading model. It’s going to take some time before we have got all the potential trade deals cemented.
But one of the main reasons for lower growth is the link to very low producvity in the UK. We’ve not invested enough in technology and skills. So we produce less for the same effort than many of our rivals. That’s why we need a tax regime which incentivises investment. The idea that we can tax ‘rich’ companies in order to give the money to the poor is beyond flawed. It’s self defeating. I do agree with a windfall tax against energy companies at this current time, but high taxation of business as a ‘business as usual’ approach, will mean lower investment and will see businesses set up and grow elsewhere (outside of the UK).
Click to expand...
Investment has tumbled since 2016, it's not a debate anymore that brexit has had a detrimental economic effect. I feel sorry for the traditional Labour heartlands and fishing towns that voted brexit and then Tory, who saw it as an answer to their problems. That is the real tragedy, they'll continue to decline and the penny will drop.
 
poolseasider said:
And the remain camp told no lies did it 😁

The punishment budget with immediate tax rises and cuts to NHS, defence and education budgets.Nope

£30 billion black hole.

Families £4,300 worse off.

Half Million out of work.

Inflation.

Housing crash.

Migrant camps along the whole of the South Coast.

Peace in Europe like we'd end up going to war with our neighbors and we're currently spending billions, training and sending weapons to Ukraine.

The remain camp for me was lazy and arrogant that they new they where going to win compare it with the Scottish referendum when out looked like winning they brought the big hitters and discussed the issues and in won handsomely same should have happened with this vote.

Stuart Rose thoughts who led the Remain camp sums it up.-


www.itv.com

Head of Remain campaign says economic dangers of Brexit were exaggerated | ITV News

Stuart Rose - the former CEO of Marks and Spencer and the current chair of EG Group, tells ITV's Tonight he should not have taken Remain campaign role. | ITV National News
www.itv.com www.itv.com
Click to expand...
Yep both sides lied and exaggerated.

But what weve seen is a half hearted poorly implemented version of what could have been. Plus with all else going on its impossible to separate issues when we've been shutting down the world etc.

Of course there's been issues, but far more and bigger issues from all the covid stuff which was way ott and damaging.

Of course people with an agenda want to blame anything bad on x or x party, people really need to stop letting politics get to them so much, people go way ott defending their side and blaming the other. Entrenched positions.

I don't post over here as much now as its often the same, agenda driven crap, get called daft names for being more on the right yes but a lot of stuff is common sense.

Am not completely wedded to any views or any party, unlike lots stuck in deeply in their camps.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Let's be honest if it wasn't for the thick labour supporters in the labour hotbeds of the West Midlands, East Midlands, East Lancs and the North East then it wouldn't have happened

As it has we should just get on with it, at least the Euro bureaucrats aren't wasting millions of our money, our government is quite capable of wasting our own millions

All politicians are cunts BTW
Click to expand...

A few generalisations there Phil.

I wouldn't want Labour running the country but plenty of folk would and I'd imagine some would be thick and some would be intelligent.

All politicians are cnuts mind.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
All this “remainers won’t accept the result of a democratic vote” is nonsense. It happened. We don’t have any choice but to accept it.

That doesn’t mean though we have to ignore, and stay silent about, the damage it’s done to the country and the economy, much as the Brexiters would like us to.

The leavers exercised their right to vote in the way they wanted and as they were entitled to do. However, whether they like it or not, they are going to be held responsible for the clusterfcuk they’ve inflicted on the rest of us.
Click to expand...

That's one view Mex.

Personally I didn't vote and I am not looking for any apology from anybody.

Nobody has inflicted any clusterfcuk on me as a result of which way they voted.

I'd imagine that the lives of most people have not changed significantly as a result of the UK leaving the EU and that there plenty of people who are just happy to blame others for anything.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
That's one view Mex.

Personally I didn't vote and I am not looking for any apology from anybody.

Nobody has inflicted any clusterfcuk on me as a result of which way they voted.

I'd imagine that the lives of most people have not changed significantly as a result of the UK leaving the EU and that there plenty of people who are just happy to blame others for anything.
Click to expand...
I voted remain. I don’t want or expect an apology.
It’s so easy to see that the pandemic plus the Russia/Ukraine situation have totally skewered any assessment that we could reasonably make at this point.

The cost of the pandemic alone has totally walloped our economy and we all knew at the time it would take years to fully recover from that.

A fair analysis of the impact of Brexit was always going to take time to deliver, now, because of these extra variables, it’s going to take a hell of a lot longer and be a far less sufferable journey.
 
Shandypants said:
Investment has tumbled since 2016, it's not a debate anymore that brexit has had a detrimental economic effect. I feel sorry for the traditional Labour heartlands and fishing towns that voted brexit and then Tory, who saw it as an answer to their problems. That is the real tragedy, they'll continue to decline and the penny will drop.
Click to expand...
A 4% reduction in GDP according to the OBR.

And before we get the usual “what do the experts know?” that’s the same OBR that Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng thought they could ignore. And that ended well.

But still we get some people in denial about the damage their vote has done to the country.
 
Lala said:
I voted remain. I don’t want or expect an apology.
It’s so easy to see that the pandemic plus the Russia/Ukraine situation have totally skewered any assessment that we could reasonably make at this point.

The cost of the pandemic alone has totally walloped our economy and we all knew at the time it would take years to fully recover from that.

A fair analysis of the impact of Brexit was alway going to take time to deliver, now, because of these extra variables, it’s going to take a hell of a lot longer and be a far less sufferable journey.
Click to expand...
But the OBR has made an assessment.

There’s been a 4% reduction in GDP. That’s huge!
 
Mexboroseasider said:

Brexit analysis - Office for Budget Responsibility

Since the announcement of the EU referendum we have been producing analysis and writing about the potential effects of Brexit on the economy and public finances. We have compiled our assumptions, judgements and analysis on this page.
obr.uk obr.uk

Proof for the deniers.

Look under current assumptions and judgment.
Click to expand...
There's no arguing with zealots. It's everything else but Brexit. They'll never admit it.

Joe Lycett nailed it. We're the tea bag in the EU cup. When we were in the cup, we made it stronger. Coming out has weakened the tea, but the tea bag has gone into the bin.
 
Wizaard said:
There's no arguing with zealots. It's everything else but Brexit. They'll never admit it.

Joe Lycett nailed it. We're the tea bag in the EU cup. When we were in the cup, we made it stronger. Coming out has weakened the tea, but the tea bag has gone into the bin.
Click to expand...
I agree the zealots are never going to admit responsibility for the mess they created. But there are plenty of reasonable people who voted leave and they are the ones who’ve accepted, or who’ll eventually accept, the truth. And agree their vote has damaged the country.

You only have to read the OBR report to see that. It’s there in black and white and is indisputable.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I agree the zealots are never going to admit responsibility for the mess they created. But there are plenty of reasonable people who voted leave and they are the ones who’ve accepted, or who’ll eventually accept, the truth. And agree their vote has damaged the country.

You only have to read the OBR report to see that. It’s there in black and white and is indisputable.
Click to expand...
There's an increasing number that realise either Brexit itself or the version Brexit that's been delivered was wrong for the national good. It's made us poorer as a nation and a change in relationship with the EU is inevitable as the younger generation choose to fix the mistakes made by their parents and grandparents, for their own prosperity.

www.statista.com

Brexit poll 2023 | Statista

The share of people who regret Brexit has increased since the UK left the EU. Recent polls show a growing majority think it was the wrong decision.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
 
Lala said:
I voted remain. I don’t want or expect an apology.
It’s so easy to see that the pandemic plus the Russia/Ukraine situation have totally skewered any assessment that we could reasonably make at this point.

The cost of the pandemic alone has totally walloped our economy and we all knew at the time it would take years to fully recover from that.

A fair analysis of the impact of Brexit was always going to take time to deliver, now, because of these extra variables, it’s going to take a hell of a lot longer and be a far less sufferable journey.
Click to expand...
The most sensible comment on this thread. Remoaners take note. Well said Lala.👍
 
tommytwojags said:
HaHa maybe that's the answer. Don't let the great English public loose with a voting paper. If we had a self appointed leader like Putin we wouldn't have these debates. Well let's face it we wouldn't have any debates.
Click to expand...
I am 50 years old and I am certain we will not see another referendum in my lifetime. Not even for PR.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
No view on the OBR report Trammo?
Click to expand...
www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk

The OBR again makes unsupportable claims about Brexit - Briefings For Britain

The OBR has again claimed that Brexit will have a big long-term negative impact on GDP. These claims are based on a misleading interpretation of recent trade figures and on a supposed link between trade intensity and productivity which is not supported by the evidence. It is quite inappropriate...
www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk

Thats one view. Obviously people will dismiss any view that doesn’t agree with theirs.

I’m ambivalent.
 
Malced said:
The reason we have low growth isn’t primarily due to Brexit. I don’t deny there will be some impact from Brexit. That’s inevitable as it’s a huge change to extricate ourselves from the EU and to get on a stable footing for our future trading model. It’s going to take some time before we have got all the potential trade deals cemented.
But one of the main reasons for lower growth is the link to very low producvity in the UK. We’ve not invested enough in technology and skills. So we produce less for the same effort than many of our rivals. That’s why we need a tax regime which incentivises investment. The idea that we can tax ‘rich’ companies in order to give the money to the poor is beyond flawed. It’s self defeating. I do agree with a windfall tax against energy companies at this current time, but high taxation of business as a ‘business as usual’ approach, will mean lower investment and will see businesses set up and grow elsewhere (outside of the UK).
Click to expand...

Brexit isolates the UK with a government that will never ever invest in technology, infrastructure and peoples skills. The UK will never ever have a high skill, high tax, high productivity economy with a Conservative government.

The rest of your low tax attract investment mantra is the exact philosophy that creates no infrastructure and poor investment in educating and training our people.

It is effective infrastructure and a skilled workforce that attracts investment that benefits people , not slashing taxes so that all you attract is a succession of capital hoarders that never benefit anyone but the those that are already rich.
 
We will never progress whilst these are still people (a lot in powerful positions) that continue to discuss the actual vote and are stuck in 2016.

The discussion should squarely be about what our relationship with the EU should look like.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
No view on the OBR report Trammo?
Click to expand...
Old Bullshitting Remoaners. I bet when you were a kid you didn't read comics you were too busy reading The Daily Worker and Chairman Mao's Little Red Book. Emigrate to North Korea I'm sure you will love it there....🇬🇧
 
Last edited:

I posted this the other week, it's worth a watch. It's crystal clear from the facts they document that brexit has hit our economy massively. You can all hide behind covid, ukraine and ships stuck in the Panama canal, the documentary tells it like it is.
 
OneStepBeyond said:
The discussion should squarely be about what our relationship with the EU should look like.
Click to expand...

Of course it should, and I am sure we all want what is best for our country but are just very divided about how to go about getting there.

The real problem at the moment though is that the people who have the real power in the UK are still too busy trying to cover their tracks and to frame the EU as our enemy to begin having that discussion.

We may need to wait several years for a new generation to come through before we get any constructive political debate.
 
glasshalffull said:
Of course it should, and I am sure we all want what is best for our country but are just very divided about how to go about getting there.
Click to expand...
Some are concerned about how we structure the way forward to attain what is best for our country.

Some want to dwell on the past and what might have been if things had turned out differently.

Until the latter become the former we will be stuck in a rut with little forward progress
 
tommytwojags said:
Some are concerned about how we structure the way forward to attain what is best for our country.

Some want to dwell on the past and what might have been if things had turned out differently.

Until the latter become the former we will be stuck in a rut with little forward progress
Click to expand...

But that is not what is happening. That is just an illogical link.

People dwelling on the past and what might have been are just being historians and are not impacting on the present, or holding anything back.

What is happening is the politicians in power seem hellbent on making the most ideological decisions they can to distance us from our main trading partners.

Maybe that will be different under Sunak it is a bit early to say, but I suspect not.
 
Lala said:
www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk

The OBR again makes unsupportable claims about Brexit - Briefings For Britain

The OBR has again claimed that Brexit will have a big long-term negative impact on GDP. These claims are based on a misleading interpretation of recent trade figures and on a supposed link between trade intensity and productivity which is not supported by the evidence. It is quite inappropriate...
www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk

Thats one view. Obviously people will dismiss any view that doesn’t agree with theirs.

I’m ambivalent.
Click to expand...
Briefings for Britain? Hardly the most impartial body.

Unlike the OBR who are independent and highly respected.

If you wanted, say, an objective and professional fire risk assessment, that you could rely on, would you approach:

A) The Fire Brigade? or
B) The Association of Arsonists?
 
glasshalffull said:
But that is not what is happening. That is just an illogical link.

People dwelling on the past and what might have been are just being historians and are not impacting on the present, or holding anything back.

What is happening is the politicians in power seem hellbent on making the most ideological decisions they can to distance us from our main trading partners.

Maybe that will be different under Sunak it is a bit early to say, but I suspect not.
Click to expand...
Very good post. All this “we can only move on when people stop complaining (ie ignore the problems that have been caused)” is just another attempt to blame other people for the situation we’re in.

It’s not remainers who are stopping Brexiters from delivering on their promises. It’s the fact that what was promised was never deliverable. And until the people in charge accept the reality of the situation we’re in, rather than living in a fantasy world, the country will continue to limp along. And the people responsible will continue to look for scapegoats.
 
tommytwojags said:
Some are concerned about how we structure the way forward to attain what is best for our country.

Some want to dwell on the past and what might have been if things had turned out differently.

Until the latter become the former we will be stuck in a rut with little forward progress
Click to expand...
You know that's nonsense. It's the wilful denial of any negative effect from Brexit that makes us unable to determine any worthwhile way forward. The logic being, all is well so we carry on as we are.

Until there is some admission that all is NOT well, we can't move on, something we have to do because the decision is made.
 
Wizaard said:
There's no arguing with zealots. It's everything else but Brexit. They'll never admit it.

Joe Lycett nailed it. We're the tea bag in the EU cup. When we were in the cup, we made it stronger. Coming out has weakened the tea, but the tea bag has gone into the bin.
Click to expand...

Stop ‘milking’ someone else’s silly comment.
Remain see the cup as half empty. Leave see the cup as half full.
Maybe turn over a new ‘leaf’ and try to make the most of things.
With that completely biased negative analogy, why has tea bag gone in the bin? We can have our own strong cup of tea without it being diluted and weakened across 27 other thirsty beneficiaries.
Anyways, Barnier said we couldn’t have our cake and eat it. But he never once said we couldn’t have our nice English cuppa and drink it. 🤣
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Briefings for Britain? Hardly the most impartial body.

Unlike the OBR who are independent and highly respected.

If you wanted, say, an objective and professional fire risk assessment, that you could rely on, would you approach:

A) The Fire Brigade? or
B) The Association of Arsonists?
Click to expand...
A body of highly intelligent individuals from Cambridge including economists. They have a different take.

Always sensible to look at what’s out there from all sources.
 
Malced said:
Stop ‘milking’ someone else’s silly comment.
Remain see the cup as half empty. Leave see the cup as half full.
Maybe turn over a new ‘leaf’ and try to make the most of things.
With that completely biased negative analogy, why has tea bag gone in the bin? We can have our own strong cup of tea without it being diluted and weakened across 27 other thirsty beneficiaries.
Anyways, Barnier said we couldn’t have our cake and eat it. But he never once said we couldn’t have our nice English cuppa and drink it. 🤣
Click to expand...

OK so what is this cup of tea and how do we get to both drink it and keep it?
What is the plan?
 
tommytwojags said:
Some are concerned about how we structure the way forward to attain what is best for our country.

Some want to dwell on the past and what might have been if things had turned out differently.

Until the latter become the former we will be stuck in a rut with little forward progress
Click to expand...
That looks a little like blaming the remainers for the Government's inability to get a workable deal for Brexit. I voted remain, respect the result and expected a workable deal along the lines of what we were promised. Free trade, single market, fine, no bother. This Government is the one who pushed Brexit, so they are the ones with the authority to negotiate deals, not those who voted against. It is an easy get out to constantly blame the EU for any problems, maybe if we didn't change the Chief Negotiator every 10 minutes it would help build a relationship.

Remoaners have no influence on negotiations, so stop blaming them. For all our sakes, we need NI sorted, we need to reduce import/export red tape, and we need to get enough workers to run all those sectors hard hit by Brexit, care, hospitality, food manufacture, etc, etc. We have Brexit, we rapidly need a workable Brexit that doesn't wreck our economy and endanger the Union. I learnt a long time ago that unless you are prepared to admit there is a problem, you can never solve it.

Malced's post above about lack of investment is so true. The answer has to be political, unfortunately. Businesses, particularly from oversees investors, would rather reap dividends short term than invest longterm, Stock Markets do not grow economies. Great example currently is Water companies, mostly overseas owned. Ofwat set prices including the investment need to drastically improve infrastructure, the companies have paid it out as dividends and literally flushed effluent into our rivers and seas, legalised by the Tories back in August ( by refusing a Labour amendment that would have continued EU environmental standards.)
 
Malced said:
Stop ‘milking’ someone else’s silly comment.
Remain see the cup as half empty. Leave see the cup as half full.
Maybe turn over a new ‘leaf’ and try to make the most of things.
With that completely biased negative analogy, why has tea bag gone in the bin? We can have our own strong cup of tea without it being diluted and weakened across 27 other thirsty beneficiaries.
Anyways, Barnier said we couldn’t have our cake and eat it. But he never once said we couldn’t have our nice English cuppa and drink it. 🤣
Click to expand...
Go on then. For the hundredth time on this forum, give one tangible benefit of Brexit. 6 years in and nothing. Not one iota of benefit.
 
Wizaard said:
Go on then. For the hundredth time on this forum, give one tangible benefit of Brexit. 6 years in and nothing. Not one iota of benefit.
Click to expand...

Well the obvious one is the autonomy we had to effectively invest and gamble on numerous covid vaccine candidates, enabling us to give vaccines to our population well ahead of the EU.

Other than that, there’s many soft benefits. The financial pros and cons need evaluating over time. A generation perhaps. The decision to leave was not all about money. So if we have a little less growth than we would have had in the first 5 years that is acceptable to many, and no reason to rejoin the EU.
 
Malced said:
Well the obvious one is the autonomy we had to effectively invest and gamble on numerous covid vaccine candidates, enabling us to give vaccines to our population well ahead of the EU.

Other than that, there’s many soft benefits. The financial pros and cons need evaluating over time. A generation perhaps. The decision to leave was not all about money. So if we have a little less growth than we would have had in the first 5 years that is acceptable to many, and no reason to rejoin the EU.
Click to expand...
Agreed about a generation or maybe at a push a half generation before we can really assess all of the pros and cons of leaving.
 
The issues were:

Sovereignty - well it was pretty clear from when Truss and Kwarteng tried to implement the Brexit wet dream of Singapore on Thames that the markets place a limit on sovereignty. So that’s all a bit airy fairy in truth.

Immigration and controlling our borders - well that’s going well isn’t it. And by the way, because of all the labour shortages, the big debate in government at the moment has been about relaxing the rules as we need more immigrants to fill the vacancies. That said, with a recession pending, businesses likely to go pop and unemployment probably going to rise, the problem of labour shortages will probably solve itself.

The economy - the OBR report is not about the last five years. It’s about our future prospects. Rees Mogg suggested 50 years as a probable time frame. And without a strong economy you can wave goodbye to levelling up. So all the issues that led to discontent and a leave vote will still be around for….oh….probably 50 years.
 
Things that I was 'worried' about (voted remain, got leave)... An immediate economic hit (didn't happen). Probably the big one for me - being unable to travel freely (EU was much worse during Covid, the myth it's one big gaff you can mooch around in completely busted). The EU a liberal force for good (see Covid).

If I had my vote again, it'd be to leave... It's the stuff you don't get to vote on which has the biggest impact. Blair's immigration policy and illegal invasion of Iraq, pandemic management and getting into a proxy war with Putin, just a few examples.
 
Malced said:
Stop ‘milking’ someone else’s silly comment.
Remain see the cup as half empty. Leave see the cup as half full.
Maybe turn over a new ‘leaf’ and try to make the most of things.
With that completely biased negative analogy, why has tea bag gone in the bin? We can have our own strong cup of tea without it being diluted and weakened across 27 other thirsty beneficiaries.
Anyways, Barnier said we couldn’t have our cake and eat it. But he never once said we couldn’t have our nice English cuppa and drink it. 🤣
Click to expand...
What nonsense!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top