Our country and the world need Boris back

Mexboroseasider said:
😂 So I’ve been told.

But it is quite funny though, after zillions of posts about how much you hate the government response to Covid, that you’re now a cheerleader for, and want the return of, the person responsible for the policies.

At the same time as concocting a convoluted argument that attempts to blame the polices on someone who didn’t implement them.

I suspect I may refer to this exchange in the future whenever you make an anti lockdown comment.
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They can both be shit you know, or slightly different shades of shit.

The debate on lockdowns is settled and there's no appetite on my part to start rehashing that with others who can't or won't accept the facts. Australia - the poster boys of Covid nonsense - published their report yesterday. Surprise, sur-**-prise, schools should have remained open, lockdowns should've been used less (not at all is also less, but I'll accept that) and the elderly weren't properly protected. The Great Barrington Declaration basically. So yeah, it's done.

Anyway, you've deliberately dragged me into some forensic discussion of my opinions (as if they matter - just say you disagree) when asked a perfectly plain question about Keith and his 'ability' to not spot a financial train wreck coming. If anything I'm a cheerleader for competence and maybe just a little bit of anarchic comedy ☺️
 
rockontommy said:
Watching Labour crow at Liz Truss' clear mental breakdown...
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Sorry Rotts that is just plain nonsense, and may I politely say that you are better than that.

On the wider point, Ben Wallace is possibly the candidate most could coalesce around but is unlikely to run as his ambition is probably confined to the military.

I`m sure he has also factored in the magnitude of the mess, and the depth of the division and the toll on his personal life and, like any sensible person, has thought `not for me`.

Anybody but Suella Braverman or Johnson has to be a tiny step in the right direction. And a cabinet made up of the best available talent regardless of their standing in the party spectrum...
 
bollieboy said:
I think the fact that Johnson is on 2 weeks holiday whilst Parliament is sitting kind of shows the character of this immoral character.
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Are you really saying that arguably the hardest working PM of modern times, who is no longer involved in any way in the government of this country is seen as "immoral" for taking a holiday with his young family? 😆 Unless the holiday involves backstreet massage parlours of Bangkok that puts the definition of immorality into a whole new context.
 
tommytwojags said:
Are you really saying that arguably the hardest working PM of modern times, who is no longer involved in any way in the government of this country is seen as "immoral" for taking a holiday with his young family? 😆 Unless the holiday involves backstreet massage parlours of Bangkok that puts the definition of immorality into a whole new context.
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He is a skiver . Imagine a teacher slipping off for a couple of weeks holiday during term-time.
 
If BJ was handed the keys to No10 again then Starmer could go on holiday put his feet up and relax for two years and then move straight in to Downing Street after the next election.
 
Every decision, going back to 2012 when the Conservatives thought it a good idea to hold a referedum to wreck our economy, has probably gone the opposite way to common sense. The last person on earth to turn to would be the biggest pillock of all time who had such a massive influence on the mess we now find ourselves in. If it happened, I think it would just accelerate the crash.
 
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tommytwojags said:
All good points. Despite his shortcomings, Johnson does indeed transcend the Tory party, although not with his ability to talk off the cuff, a trait that gets him into more trouble than not. However, he has charisma, a virtue he alone out of all the politicians from all parties seems to possess. He also does have a current mandate to lead the government until 2024. The most significant aspect of his potential return, however, is that a lot of people like him despite the many obvious reasons for not doing so. Moreover, his foibles might be seen as minor issues/character flaws, whereas he is widely regarded as being successful in acheiving the big things. Do people perceive Keir Starmer in the same way? I haven't seen the love for him or any great demand for him to lead the country.
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Yeah, I agree about him getting himself in bother but I think part of his charisma is that ability to talk off the cuff - or the ability to write a very good speech at short notice and deliver it with a sense of energy.

I think the main tactic Labour will go for is selling the notion of a competent plan. Their strategy will be 'Starmer is not an egotist but a serious leader' and they'll portray their (current and relative) unity as the strength. There's no way on earth Starmer can take on Johnson directly in terms of personality - Starmer has a funny voice and a weird big face and looks uptight and stage managed. Johnson is ridiculously at ease with himself and is very verbose - Labour will, I'm sure, try to make the debate about the notion of 'government' as a whole and if they've got any sense, they'll basically say 'yes, Boris is a very engaging man but the party behind him is an utter disjointed shambles and people can have a government working together because the problem of governing by personality is that it leads to chaos and your cost of living rising' - there's no question that some of the roots of Tory instability lie in Boris' actions in the semi recent past.

I think for everyone who will see 'Boris' as an attractive brand, there's a.n.other who will see 'Tory' as a ruined brand and the problem is that whilst Boris will bring some round, there are others who he will only alienate further as he won't be the unifiying candidate to make the Tories 'respectable' again.

His charm will get him so far, but he'll then find a very difficult situation where his chancellor won't give him the cash to sort out the main problem and he'll find that very, very difficult to overcome.

I think for all people can cite Starmer's deficits (I'm no big fan of him) you get moments in politics where people simply vote 'change' regardless - Brexit was, I think one of those. I think what a lot of angry remainers don't get is that Brexit kind of came from the same place as any remarkable moment of change, be it 1997, 1979 or whatever - people had had enough of what is and are willing to try something else. I think Starmer's greyness and limited personality might actually be an asset in that sense as I'm not sure there's an awful lot to alienate people who just want to vote for 'something that's not this'
 
tommytwojags said:
Are you really saying that arguably the hardest working PM of modern times, who is no longer involved in any way in the government of this country is seen as "immoral" for taking a holiday with his young family? 😆 Unless the holiday involves backstreet massage parlours of Bangkok that puts the definition of immorality into a whole new context.
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'Hardest working PM of modern times ..'

Comedy genius. 😂
 
td53 said:
Yeah, I agree about him getting himself in bother but I think part of his charisma is that ability to talk off the cuff - or the ability to write a very good speech at short notice and deliver it with a sense of energy.

I think the main tactic Labour will go for is selling the notion of a competent plan. Their strategy will be 'Starmer is not an egotist but a serious leader' and they'll portray their (current and relative) unity as the strength. There's no way on earth Starmer can take on Johnson directly in terms of personality - Starmer has a funny voice and a weird big face and looks uptight and stage managed. Johnson is ridiculously at ease with himself and is very verbose - Labour will, I'm sure, try to make the debate about the notion of 'government' as a whole and if they've got any sense, they'll basically say 'yes, Boris is a very engaging man but the party behind him is an utter disjointed shambles and people can have a government working together because the problem of governing by personality is that it leads to chaos and your cost of living rising' - there's no question that some of the roots of Tory instability lie in Boris' actions in the semi recent past.

I think for everyone who will see 'Boris' as an attractive brand, there's a.n.other who will see 'Tory' as a ruined brand and the problem is that whilst Boris will bring some round, there are others who he will only alienate further as he won't be the unifiying candidate to make the Tories 'respectable' again.

His charm will get him so far, but he'll then find a very difficult situation where his chancellor won't give him the cash to sort out the main problem and he'll find that very, very difficult to overcome.

I think for all people can cite Starmer's deficits (I'm no big fan of him) you get moments in politics where people simply vote 'change' regardless - Brexit was, I think one of those. I think what a lot of angry remainers don't get is that Brexit kind of came from the same place as any remarkable moment of change, be it 1997, 1979 or whatever - people had had enough of what is and are willing to try something else. I think Starmer's greyness and limited personality might actually be an asset in that sense as I'm not sure there's an awful lot to alienate people who just want to vote for 'something that's not this'
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I do love your 'to the point' descriptions TD.

Starmer has a funny voice and a weird big face 😆

His greyness and limited personality might actually be an asset 😄
 
bollieboy said:
'Hardest working PM of modern times ..'

Comedy genius. 😂
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southshorepool said:
They're part of a cult. There will be no persuading them any different.
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Some short memories on here. Jogging at 7am, cabinet meeting at 11, off to Ukraine to meet Zelensky, look after his 14 kids. He might not be the perfect PM but his workrate can't be faulted. I wish our midfielders worked half as hard.
 
spudgun said:
Sorry Rotts that is just plain nonsense, and may I politely say that you are better than that.

On the wider point, Ben Wallace is possibly the candidate most could coalesce around but is unlikely to run as his ambition is probably confined to the military.

I`m sure he has also factored in the magnitude of the mess, and the depth of the division and the toll on his personal life and, like any sensible person, has thought `not for me`.

Anybody but Suella Braverman or Johnson has to be a tiny step in the right direction. And a cabinet made up of the best available talent regardless of their standing in the party spectrum...
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Stella Creasey (PMQs) definitely enjoyed Liz being under her desk or words to that effect. You'd have to watch it back because it followed a question from the SNP (I think). Seemed pretty clear she was taking the piss. A lot of people think Tories are fair game for personal insults and abuse because of their policies. Don't think that's a contentious one.
 
rockontommy said:
Stella Creasey (PMQs) definitely enjoyed Liz being under her desk or words to that effect. You'd have to watch it back because it followed a question from the SNP (I think). Seemed pretty clear she was taking the piss. A lot of people think Tories are fair game for personal insults and abuse because of their policies. Don't think that's a contentious one.
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It wasn't just PMQs it was the emergency question before the Chancellor's statement (which she then turned up for) but it seems she has a history of ducking scrutiny

www.independent.co.uk

Liz Truss aides ‘pretended her relatives had died’ to get her out of going on TV

Staffer claims only ‘minor people like aunts and cousins’ were killed off
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
Bozza comes in, economy stabilises, Russia withdraw from Ukraine praising his role in the war, England win the World Cup in Qatar, early election, five more years.
Lump on!
 
bollieboy said:
If Boris does get elected Tory leader its looking quite likely that a significant number of Tory MPs will resign and a GE will need to be called. Bring it on.
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It would need about 40 of them, I doubt there are that many, maybe there are.
It is worth remembering that many of them dumped him out of office a few weeks ago and many of them also backed Liz Truss - I wouldn't trust their flip-flopping judgement.
None of them ever talk about the national interest, which surely is to have a general election. The country wants a reset. Tories currently on 14% which would leave them with about 5 seats.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
It would need about 40 of them, I doubt there are that many, maybe there are.
It is worth remembering that many of them dumped him out of office a few weeks ago and many of them also backed Liz Truss - I wouldn't trust their flip-flopping judgement.
None of them ever talk about the national interest, which surely is to have a general election. The country wants a reset. Tories currently on 14% which would leave them with about 5 seats.
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Don't underestimate the sheer disdain that the decent Tory MPs have for Johnson.
 
MPs aren’t mugs, they know that backing Boris will divide the party and that’s the last thing they need. However, if it looks like he’s going to win, some of those that are saying they’d resign, won’t, because they know it might lead to a GE and they know they’d lose.

They need someone with the experience and personality who is in the centre ground to have any chance of bringing the extremes in the party together and frankly, I can’t see anyone. Ben Wallace might have done it, but he’s ruled him out, Jeremy Hunt has seen his stock rise and might have done it, but he’s also ruled himself out.
 
Come back Boris. Your public awaits. Can’t put a price on charisma. He will have 18 months plus to settle the markets down, do a bit of levelling up and he’ll breeze the next election
 
Keep the faith said:
No
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Thats sad , hes a deceitful , egotistical liar , only out for himself. Thats just the start. Currently on holiday in the Dominican Republic, even though Parliament is sitting and there are 22 recess weeks for a holiday . Apart from in the Ukraine hes more or less a laughing stock throughout Europe and beyond , no doubt .
 
Philbfctrois said:
Yeah right oh

illegal war, benefits culture, high unemployment, crippling interest rates, the demise of the British manufacturing industry, fcuking up the NHS and the biggest ever national debt

Nice one
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NHS was in a far better state after Labour than now. Not the waiting lists or extreme staff shortages we have now. Demise of manufacturing started under Thatcher.
 
Don’t worry you Boris haters, there’ll be political manoeuvring to make sure he doesn’t get 100 votes. They’ll make sure 2 or 3 others throw their hat in the ring to dilute the votes
 
tommytwojags said:
Are you really saying that arguably the hardest working PM of modern times, who is no longer involved in any way in the government of this country is seen as "immoral" for taking a holiday with his young family? 😆 Unless the holiday involves backstreet massage parlours of Bangkok that puts the definition of immorality into a whole new context.
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There are 22 weeks of Parliamentary recess for holidays. Its supposed to be a period of economic and political crisis, not least for his own party . So he doesnt care . Should be representing his constituency .
 
Matesrates said:
Don’t worry you Boris haters, there’ll be political manoeuvring to make sure he doesn’t get 100 votes. They’ll make sure 2 or 3 others throw their hat in the ring to dilute the votes
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Current estimates are that Sunak has 68 endorsements from MPs including Javid, Johnson has 36..
 
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