Autumn Budget

seasideone said:
There is more bs in you reply than I can believe.

Yes we need a welfare state to protect the people who need it - not those who dont’t.

If you are a lazy shirker who can work and chooses not to - why should the state pay for you forever??
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As I say. You have an insecurity that curses you.
 
Wizaard said:
Not at all. Imposed settlement that has nothing to do with inflation.

We've lost 34% against inflation since 2010.
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That's plain wrong. If Local Government pay agreement is 7%, surely the Civil Service one should be.
Lala said:
I don’t think they consider inflation anymore Rusty like they did years ago. It won’t increase for 2023 that’s for sure.
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Then it's wrong Lala.
 
seasideone said:
I’ve paid millions over the years 👍

When I lived in the UK I never tried to get out of paying tax, in fact every country I have lived in I have paid fairly and what has been asked with no dodgy schemes or fancy off shore stuff.

If I move back to the UK I will abide by UK tax law and pay what is owed without any fancy tax schemes as well.

How much have you paid?
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Millions! Really? I have worked and paid tax and National Insurance contributions all my life from the age of 16. Although now retired, I still pay income tax. This gives me the right to contribute to this thread, unlike others who now contribute nothing in the UK!
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
That's plain wrong. If Local Government pay agreement is 7%, surely the Civil Service one should be.

Then it's wrong Lala.
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Local Government have some autonomy over pay. Central Government don't.

I think it's only fair that as Liz Truss' Tory Government cost us £35 billion of the current £50 billion shortfall, any Tory voters should have to pay that share of the bill.😉
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
That's the point though
Going to all whether they need it or not
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When I started work at the age of 16, I was told that income tax and National Insurance contributions would be automatically deducted from my salary. The latter would pay for a decent pension when I reached the age of 65. It was, after all, an insurance scheme. There was no intimation that it might be subject to means testing, but, moreover, an entitlement.
 
EPM46 said:
Millions! Really? I have worked and paid tax and National Insurance contributions all my life from the age of 16. Although now retired, I still pay income tax. This gives me the right to contribute to this thread, unlike others who now contribute nothing in the UK!
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Yes Millions - sorry if it doesn’t suit your agenda.

…and I never said you didn’t have a right to contribute to this thread - I am glad you did.
 
Genuine question. How do food banks work? Do you need to sign up for them or show your benefits information?

I see a lot of talk on the news about the rise in food banks but I don’t know anyone who uses one. 🤔
 
EPM46 said:
When I started work at the age of 16, I was told that income tax and National Insurance contributions would be automatically deducted from my salary. The latter would pay for a decent pension when I reached the age of 65. It was, after all, an insurance scheme. There was no intimation that it might be subject to means testing, but, moreover, an entitlement.
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This set of shysters changed the rules of the Civil Service pension scheme when I was 58 and continue to change it, despite losing legal challenges.

How can anyone make sensible financial planning for retirement when they throw the rules out late on?

Retirement age for State Pension will continue to rise. Given Blackpool has one of the lowest life expectancy rates in the country, the pool of recipients will be getting lower and lower as people die before they can benefit.
 
seasideone said:
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Just answer the question, so we all know how long you would support freeloaders for by the welfare state?
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There are miniscule amounts of 'freeloaders'. People get what they are entitled to, and that's way below the minimum wage as a flat rate benefit.

Fraud is an issue, and people working cash in hand while claiming are robbing us all.

Not to a scale anything like those who scam us all by tax evasion. If we got the revenue that we should do, we wouldn't need these conversations, but the effort is targeted at recovering the £100s in benefits, not the millions in tax.
 
Wizaard said:
There are miniscule amounts of 'freeloaders'. People get what they are entitled to, and that's way below the minimum wage as a flat rate benefit.

Fraud is an issue, and people working cash in hand while claiming are robbing us all.

Not to a scale anything like those who scam us all by tax evasion. If we got the revenue that we should do, we wouldn't need these conversations, but the effort is targeted at recovering the £100s in benefits, not the millions in tax.
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What they are entitled to??

There is the difference between me and you -
I think if you can work and don’t you should get food vouchers at best.

The difference between what I want people to be entitled to and what you do are probably humongous.

…and yes go after the tax evasion lot as well!!
 
Loco said:
I wonder why they are wealthy pensioners? Maybe because they worked hard?
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Well one was is a painter & decorator (and bets on the horses every day) the other drove a wagon on the docks. They've (I can only talk about my neighbors) worked simple jobs - yes, but that's not the issue, the issue is they're being rewarded now to the detriment of others, when they don't actually need it. And there will be thousands more wealthier pensioners who can do without the annual rise.
 
585 = never give up said:
Well one was is a painter & decorator (and bets on the horses every day) the other drove a wagon on the docks. They've (I can only talk about my neighbors) worked simple jobs - yes, but that's not the issue, the issue is they're being rewarded now to the detriment of others, when they don't actually need it. And there will be thousands more wealthier pensioners who can do without the annual rise.
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No! The issue is they joined and contributed to a National INSURANCE Scheme which provides a State Retirement Pension. Betting on the horses every day, or not, in your opinion, needing it, has nothing at all to do with it, or, for that matter, to do with you!
 
EPM46 said:
No! The issue is they joined and contributed to a National INSURANCE Scheme which provides a State Retirement Pension. Betting on the horses every day, or not, in your opinion, needing it, has nothing at all to do with it, or, for that matter, to do with you!
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Good point.

If you paid in you should be entitled to take out. Surely that has to be right?

If receipt of your pension depends on whether or not it’s spent “wisely” then that opens a real can of worms.

Who decides what is wise?

If any of your pension is spent on alcohol; or a flutter on the horses; Sky or Netflix; a meal out; attending a football match……

Then should your pension be forfeit?
 
EPM46 said:
No! The issue is they joined and contributed to a National INSURANCE Scheme which provides a State Retirement Pension. Betting on the horses every day, or not, in your opinion, needing it, has nothing at all to do with it, or, for that matter, to do with you!
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You miss the point.

They did sign up to a scheme that would give them a pension - but the amount was never guaranteed.

If they don’t need as much - why should the state pay more?
 
EPM46 said:
No! The issue is they joined and contributed to a National INSURANCE Scheme which provides a State Retirement Pension. Betting on the horses every day, or not, in your opinion, needing it, has nothing at all to do with it, or, for that matter, to do with you!
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So have most of us on here!
This is a debating thread, so whether you like it or not, people debate the issue of the rights and wrongs of the budget, and ask the question - why are pensioners not means tested? Durrrr 😭
Maybe you're one of those who would lose out if your circumstances were means tested 🤣 - just saying!
PS: What folk spend it on is their business. I only detailed that to illustrate they don't need a begging bowl.
 
Wizaard said:
Because they bought a house 50 years ago for £500 and now it's worth £750,000, or better still, inherited it so didn't have the outlay?
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And loads of public sector workers in local govt or the county council in the 80s and early 90s retired early (I saw quite a few as young as 55) with big payoffs and mega pensions. My dad did a full local govt stint and had to graft all way the way to 60 lol. Only has 5 foreign holidays a year and still going strong in his late 70s. There are a vast army of them who did very well.
 
Shandypants said:
And loads of public sector workers in local govt or the county council in the 80s and early 90s retired early (I saw quite a few as young as 55) with big payoffs and mega pensions. My dad did a full local govt stint and had to graft all way the way to 60 lol. Only has 5 foreign holidays a year and still going strong in his late 70s. There are a vast army of them who did very well.
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Those days are long gone. Under the current scheme, your pension is tied in to State pension age, so 66/67/68 depending on your age.
 
seasideone said:
There is more bs in you reply than I can believe.

Yes we need a welfare state to protect the people who need it - not those who dont’t.

If you are a lazy shirker who can work and chooses not to - why should the state pay for you forever??
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It's easier to reserve your fire for those people rather than the multi millionaire PM wife who can't be arsed paying as much tax as she should. Heaven forbid she clearly needs the money more than the rest of us.
 
seasideone said:
You miss the point.

They did sign up to a scheme that would give them a pension - but the amount was never guaranteed.

If they don’t need as much - why should the state pay more?
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Well if you paid regularly into a savings account (the same as everyone else) would you be happy if the bank or building society suddenly decided you’re entitled to less than another investor?

Who has probably paid in less.

Because the other person deserves it more.
 
Shandypants said:
It's easier to reserve your fire for those people rather than the multi millionaire PM wife who can't be arsed paying as much tax as she should. Heaven forbid she clearly needs the money more than the rest of us.
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Not at all - I think she should pay her fair dues as well.

When have I said otherwise?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Well if you paid regularly into a savings account (the same as everyone else) would you be happy if the bank or building society suddenly decided you’re entitled to less than another investor?

Who has probably paid in less.

Because the other person deserves it more.
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Of course not - but that wasn’t the deal.

No guarantee of level of return was ever given, unlike a savings account.
 
seasideone said:
The whole thing stinks.

Triple lock on pensions should be abolished or at best means tested.

10% on benefits while offering 5% to nurses - stunning!

Apart from the disabled I would pay 6 months money on benefits and then food vouchers after that, that cannot be spent on fags, booze, holidays or Sky.

Yes we need to support people but it mustn’t be to easy (with the exception of people who have genuine disabilities where I would increase payments dramatically).

The UK is broke and this doesn’t fix it.

It punishes hard working people far to much, especially people with SMEs who are trying to get by.

A large part of the country needs to get back to work and I don’t see how this budget encourages that.
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Love the 5% for nurses comment. How right.
 
seasideone said:
Of course not - but that wasn’t the deal.

No guarantee of level of return was ever given, unlike a savings account.
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I think most people (when they were paying in) would have expected the state pension to be the same for all pensioners?

Mind you I’m not totally clear what you’re arguing for. Nor in fact what I’m arguing for or against. Which is what tends to happen when you jump into a thread half way through.

If it’s to do with whether you’re for or against the lockstep - I’m undecided.

Now that’s clear I’m off for my tea.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
In summary, everyone is being fucked apart from the fuckers holding the big fuck stick who fucked it up originally.
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It was always just going to be a matter of time before we all had to pay for the silly lockdowns.

But yes, I know where you are coming from, I'd rather not get notice from Hunt - we'd still be locked down now if he had his way - and Sunak, who I saw having a moody phone call with Trudeau and Zelensky only the other day.

In this call he spoke about how terrible Putin and the Russians were, he continues to impose sanctions on the Russians and how much has his Mrs earned out of the place and how much did he get out of Covid.

I never thought there could possibly be a bigger hypocrite in the real world than those on AVFTT but in Sunak we certainly have that.
 
Shandypants said:
It's easier to reserve your fire for those people rather than the multi millionaire PM wife who can't be arsed paying as much tax as she should. Heaven forbid she clearly needs the money more than the rest of us.
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Don't get me started with that feckin Sunak.
 
Wizaard said:
Local Government have some autonomy over pay. Central Government don't.

I think it's only fair that as Liz Truss' Tory Government cost us £35 billion of the current £50 billion shortfall, any Tory voters should have to pay that share of the bill.😉
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So on that assumption Labour voters will be paying for the rest of their lives to pay for the shortfall of Bliars and Browns Tenure
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Except there'll be the usual 'how dare they go on strike' if it comes to that.
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I don’t work in the public sector or health but good luck to the nurses. There is a constant trashing of how shit their jobs are; they made huge sacrifices during Covid but they are taking big pay cuts to pay for the severe mismanagement of the economy by doctrine ridden politicians. I am not upset that my tax went up a lot today just pissed off it is not going to nurses and others who deserve it.
 
Cuthbert said:
I don’t work in the public sector or health but good luck to the nurses. There is a constant trashing of how shit their jobs are; they made huge sacrifices during Covid but they are taking big pay cuts to pay for the severe mismanagement of the economy by doctrine ridden politicians. I am not upset that my tax went up a lot today just pissed off it is not going to nurses and others who deserve it.
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My take exactly. Am happy to pay more taxes if it’s going to reward the right people and support the right services 👍
 
seasideone said:
I apologies for being dyslexic - now please answer the question 👍
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Apologise is the word. Sorry I've lost track of the question. Was it something like, "I'm from the 19th century and believe in transporting ne'erdowells to Australia?" Or perhaps it was " Should I believe in flogging those that the Daily Mail doesn't want me to like, simply because they look like riff-raff?"
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Apologise is the word. Sorry I've lost track of the question. Was it something like, "I'm from the 19th century and believe in transporting ne'erdowells to Australia?" Or perhaps it was " Should I believe in flogging those that the Daily Mail doesn't want me to like, simply because they look like riff-raff?"
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I’ll make it simple for you and repeat it again…

If you are a lazy shirker who can work and chooses not to - why should the state pay for you forever??
 
seasideone said:
You miss the point.

They did sign up to a scheme that would give them a pension - but the amount was never guaranteed.

If they don’t need as much - why should the state pay more?
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The State Pension is a flat amount which has risen in line with the cost of living for decades, so in effect, the amount was implicitly guaranteed.
 
585 = never give up said:
Well one was is a painter & decorator (and bets on the horses every day) the other drove a wagon on the docks. They've (I can only talk about my neighbors) worked simple jobs - yes, but that's not the issue, the issue is they're being rewarded now to the detriment of others, when they don't actually need it. And there will be thousands more wealthier pensioners who can do without the annual rise.
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They probably need it more than the rich boys and girls making the rules.
 
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