These people are having us all over!

foggy said:
I'm talking about the mini-budget here. You said that the £50 extra most people will be getting will stimulate the economy, what my counter is, is that there is still a net deficit as a result of all the extra money coming out of people's once disposable income. Therefore, any growth predicted as a result of this is fantasy. I'm glad the government took action on energy bills (although they are still rising massively this month), but we can agree that people will have less money right? The drop in income tax and NI is not enough to cover everything else rising.

If your whole point is just let's wait and see, I guess there is not much point in continuing and I wouldn't have replied in the first place. I'm not trying to force you to have an opinion on the matter. That's a totally fine POV to have if you want. However, you have been painting those who oppose this mini-budget as people who don't want economic growth, and espousing its benefits because of growth. So my replies have been asking you to explain where this growth will come from, and why it is your apparent belief that just cutting corporation tax automatically leads to it (which there is no evidence to support).
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We seem to be talking at cross-purposes.

The mini-budget has various things in it, one of which is extra help with energy bills costing around £60bn.

I've tried to explain the theory as to how economies grow but you seem to want something written in stone - and that's not possible to provide. That's why I said we have to let the experts come to their conclusions. You seem overly-focussed on corporation tax, but there's many things in the package of measures, and I've said before, it's the package of measures as a combination, that aim to get growth going.

And, to be clear, my intent is not to paint anyone who opposes the mini-budget as anti-growth. I've not said that. My main point is that it's wrong to overly-focus on one or two measures and use these to characterise the mini-budget.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
But in your post 118 you clearly insinuated that if people didn’t sign up to the budget then they were anti growth. I was making it clear that all parties were pro growth. The argument is how you get to that end.

I then went on to say why I didn’t think the other elements of the budget package wouldn’t achieve growth but you’ve ignored all that.
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With respect, I've not said that nor did I insinuate it in my opinion - that definitely wasn't my intent. But when you're getting into the realms of insinuating your assuming what's in someone else's mind.

I agree all parties are for growth.

I don't agree with you saying that the cut in top rate tax was a gamble the markets didn't have faith in. The markets reacted to the overall mini-budget and the huge cost of it alongside the additional borrowing requirements. They were also spooked at the lack of rigour. I don't think they were so spooked by £2bn.
 
Lala said:
I’m not sayings she hasn’t made a disastrous economic move. I’m saying I’ll give it some time. And I only say that because I’ m no economic expert.
When was the last time we had an economic genius at the helm?

It seems like an eternity since we had a leader we all thought had all the answers before getting found short.1
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Brown was the best economic mind in recent history - unlike Truss he overplanned and had the public faciing charisma of, erm Truss!

That Truss did not inform the Cabinet of the top rate cut shows an astonishing level of naivety (or total arrogant idiocy)
 
SeasideTerrier said:
Brown was the best economic mind in recent history - unlike Truss he overplanned and had the public faciing charisma of, erm Truss!

That Truss did not inform the Cabinet of the top rate cut shows an astonishing level of naivety (or total arrogant idiocy)
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Brown was an imbecile who rode a credit bubble until it popped, leaving us with a decade of austerity as a result.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Brown was an imbecile who rode a credit bubble until it popped, leaving us with a decade of austerity as a result.
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Wrong on two counts.

Brown didn’t cause the 2008 crisis. That was caused by junk bonds in the US which impacted on every western economy. Unlike the current crisis of the last week, which is all home made. But Brown did stop a complete melt down of all the financial institutions and for that we should all be grateful.

The decade of austerity was the policy of successive Tory governments. And according to the current PM and Chancellor was the wrong policy. They should have been borrowing and going for growth. You really can’t have it both ways. Either Cameron, May and Johnson were all wrong about austerity. Or Truss and Kwarteng are with their panicked Barber style “dash for growth”.

Personally I think they were all wrong. Rather than austerity we should have been borrowing money when it was cheap. Not to pass on to the rich but to invest in developing industries, including green technologies, and going for steady and sustainable growth.
 
Macseasider said:
Good effort from Malced on here to defend his Etonian Lords and Masters.

A lone voice among the hundreds of those that can see with eyes wide open what's going on.
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I’m happy to be one of a few dissenting voices on this echo-chamber.

What we’ve seen is the usual foam-mouthed extreme nonsense. Look no further than the title of this thread!

I don’t agree with all the measures in the budget. I don’t agree with how it was handled.

But I also don’t agree with how it’s been portrayed. It’s clearly a budget that contains help for all, but some can’t bear to give even one ounce of credit for that. They put their hands over their ears like children. It’s pathetic.

How dare anyone challenge this little leftie love in to try and bring a semblance of balance and truth?

Without challenge we’d be reduced to countless posts about the government hating us and wanting to give all the money to the rich; but that’s so immature, false, and ultimately warped. If that’s what you all want then you should set up a WhatsApp page so you can’t all post in bitter agreement and not have to be questioned. 👍
 
Wizaard said:
So someone on basic RP is loaded?
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If you’re talking about State Pension then you do realise all of pensionable age get it? So asking me if someone on pension is loaded is not really a sensible question.
 
Malced said:
I’m happy to be one of a few dissenting voices on this echo-chamber.

What we’ve seen is the usual foam-mouthed extreme nonsense. Look no further than the title of this thread!

I don’t agree with all the measures in the budget. I don’t agree with how it was handled.

But I also don’t agree with how it’s been portrayed. It’s clearly a budget that contains help for all, but some can’t bear to give even one ounce of credit for that. They put their hands over their ears like children. It’s pathetic.

How dare anyone challenge this little leftie love in to try and bring a semblance of balance and truth?

Without challenge we’d be reduced to countless posts about the government hating us and wanting to give all the money to the rich; but that’s so immature, false, and ultimately warped. If that’s what you all want then you should set up a WhatsApp page so you can’t all post in bitter agreement and not have to be questioned. 👍
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Leftie love in 😂

Quite a few Tory MPs seem to think the budget is a complete clusterfcuk as it happens. As well as that hotbed of left wing agitation aka the money markets.

But I totally respect your right to take a contrarian view if you want and quite admire your tenacity in a way. But you have to accept you’re then going to be challenged. And that’s all that’s happening.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Brown was an imbecile who rode a credit bubble until it popped, leaving us with a decade of austerity as a result.
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That was not my point. I answered a direct ask from Lala. However, you jump to your rant as a default. Go to the pub if you want to pick an argument; I'm watching the cricket and just conversed on a question posed.

LS, I accept some read what they expect to see, but answer Lala's post about a PM with a full understanding of macro economics. Really interested to hear your view/answer.
UTMP
 
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Malced said:
If you’re talking about State Pension then you do realise all of pensionable age get it? So asking me if someone on pension is loaded is not really a sensible question.
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Not everyone gets State Pension in full. It's contributory based. We were talking about someone in receipt of the basic state pension only.
 
SeasideTerrier said:
That was not my point. I answered a direct ask from Lala. However, you jump to your rant as a default. Go to the pub if you want to pick an argument; I'm watching the cricket and just conversed on a question posed.

LS, I accept some read what they expect to see, but answer Lala's post about a PM with a full understanding of macro economics. Really interested to hear your view/answer.
UTMP
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@Lala

David Cameron also did PPE at Merton, on the Chancellor's side, Hammond/Javid did similar and going back a bit further, Anthony Barber.
 
poolseasider said:
Do you boring fuckers ever give up match day, Saturday night,day off tomorrow and still posting about politics what a joy you must be to be with not.
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Obviously been boring in Mexborough since 1966 when a donkey with no name moved into a field by the sewerage plant next door to Shandypants bedsit😜😂
 
Matesrates said:
They have, two of my grandchildren are in that category and their mum gets cash in the holidays
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It would appear that some councils are stepping in to help. Not the government.

”The government is not directly funding food packages or meal vouchers this year, so what are the alternatives as the cost of living rises? It is a lottery postcode as the support available largely depends on where you live.”
 
Lost Seasider said:
Brown was an imbecile who rode a credit bubble until it popped, leaving us with a decade of austerity as a result.
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Ah, bless

Reduced the national debt out of growth, not selling the family jewels.
Reduced child poverty
Reduced waiting lists and got max 48 Hour wait for a GP
Got the economy a soft landing after the world banking system went pear shaped. (you remember the Tories cut expenditure so quickly they put us into recession)
 
Wizaard said:
The caring side of the Tories plain to see.

What happens if you're unable to work because of caring responsibilities, or disability, for example?

www.independent.co.uk

‘Get new job’ or cut back, Tory chair tells struggling Britons

‘Go out there and get that new job,’ says Jake Berry
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
[/QUOTE
Hes another very rich person looking down on the low paid . Of course Brexit was touted as in some way power would be taken from the "elite "
In reality its simply being used to create more opportunities for rich and powerful tory supporters, the " elite" ? to make more money and have more power .
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Tangerinemoss said:
Ah, bless

Reduced the national debt out of growth, not selling the family jewels.
Reduced child poverty
Reduced waiting lists and got max 48 Hour wait for a GP
Got the economy a soft landing after the world banking system went pear shaped. (you remember the Tories cut expenditure so quickly they put us into recession)
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48 hour to see a GP?

At least now the ambition is to see a GP within 2 weeks. Brown was just showing off
 
Malced said:
I don't agree with you saying that the cut in top rate tax was a gamble the markets didn't have faith in. The markets reacted to the overall mini-budget and the huge cost of it alongside the additional borrowing requirements. They were also spooked at the lack of rigour. I don't think they were so spooked by £2bn.
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Sterling has strengthened against the dollar immediately after the announcement to scrap the 45p tax rate proposal. It is currently back to $1.12 where it was before the mini budget.
Kwartang's position must be in jeopardy now.
 
Reportedly, at least 70 Tory MPs were ready to defy the Govt and vote against scrapping the 45% rate. Truss did not have the courage to proceed against that, since it would have meant implementing the Tory Party Chairman’s threat of withdrawing the whip. Thus instantly destroying the Govt’s majority.

It’s been said that politics is the art of the possible. It’s possible that Truss is just kicking this down the road in the hope of resurrecting her scorched earth policies next year. That might save her immediately, but I think Kwarteng will have to be sacrificed.
 
What an embarrassment….

Yet only yesterday morning Liz was so robust on her policy and it was about output not input, all about growth, best for the economy and our future.
 
Truss is all adopted Thatcherite cosplay without an inkling of economic understanding and none of the resources needed.

Thatcher cut taxes drastically and enabled growth. But that was in Phase 2. Phase 1 included Geoffrey Howe doubling VAT to 15% to rein in inflation. Then crushing industry and the unions was funded by North Sea revenues to pay the unemployment bill. Finally, the City of London was energised by Thatcher throwing all the public assets and wealth into it in the form of the telecoms industry, power generation, rail, council houses and the kitchen sink, at rock bottom prices, to provide the liquidity and the growth margin for all the spivs.

Thatcher was the first fcuker to have us all over, by selling to us what belonged to us already. Then Broon sold off most of the gold reserves at the bottom of the market. Finally, Bozo splurged whatever credit balance we could borrow. There’s nothing left now to bankroll Trussonomics.
 
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Archibald Knox said:
Truss is all adopted Thatcherite cosplay without an inkling of economic understanding and none of the resources needed.

Thatcher cut taxes drastically and enabled growth. But that was in Phase 2. Phase 1 included Geoffrey Howe doubling VAT to 15% to rein in inflation. Then crushing industry and the unions was funded by North Sea revenues to pay the unemployment bill. Finally, the City of London was energised by Thatcher throwing all the public assets and wealth into it in the form of the telecoms industry, power generation, rail, council houses and the kitchen sink, at rock bottom prices, to provide the liquidity and the growth margin for all the spivs.

Thatcher was the first fcuker to have us all over, by selling to us what belonged to us already. Then Broon sold off most of the gold reserves at the bottom of the market. Finally, Bozo splurged whatever credit balance we could borrow. There’s nothing left now to bankroll Trussonomics.
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If it hadn't been for the Falklands Thatcher would have been a turd skid mark in the history books.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
If it hadn't been for the Falklands Thatcher would have been a turd skid mark in the history books.
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I have to agree. That’s what gave her the confidence to implement Phase 2 (destroy the NUM, privatise anything not bolted down). And then made her think she was omnipotent and would “go on and on and on”. Sub-Churchillian hubris.
 
Archibald Knox said:
I have to agree. That’s what gave her the confidence to implement Phase 2 (destroy the NUM, privatise anything not bolted down). And then made her think she was omnipotent and would “go on and on and on”. Sub-Churchillian hubris.
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Until Geoffrey Howe - of all people - took her down.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
My favourite quote from Dennis Healey about Howe, "like being savaged by a dead sheep"
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Most say that his resignation speech was coruscating and devastating to Thatcher. However, am I the only one who found his cricket analogy about “bats broken by the captain” fairly lame and contrived? He hardly attacked the vicious and demagogic character that she had developed.

Perhaps its effectiveness (“of all people”) was in showing that even Thatcher’s lapdog had turned, or that the “dead sheep” had resurrected itself and had a bite. It’s so long ago now that Tory politics seems unrecognisable now with cretins like Truss, Kamikwasi and Rees-Smugg in charge.

I really do hope that when (if) Labour win the next GE they will think wider than purely partisan politics and institute proportional representation in Parliament for the next but one GE. That should finish off these RWNJs forever.
 
Yes I am sure this thread will get to 500 replies and absolutely change ........... NOTHING ! Gas on windbags!🤣
 
Trammo said:
Yes I am sure this thread will get to 500 replies and absolutely change ........... NOTHING ! Gas on windbags!🤣
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Yep it won’t change anything, but there will be hundreds of posts because we have been ‘had over’ in so many different ways.
 
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