Sad state of affairs at grass roots level

🙄 Yeah, cos I really meant it

mind you any fucker who gets knee-capped for beating the shit out of a referee ain’t gonna do it again in a hurry now, are they 🤔
 
Yeah it's a massive problem

It doesn’t help that there is a national shortage of referees so children from the age of 14 can do an online course and then be able to referee football matches

My 14 year old was involved in a full scale brawl on Saturday on the pitch after the ref lost control of the match. Punches flying and the game was abandoned after parents and coaches ran onto the pitch to try and stop the fights

One lad got a broken tooth along with various other cuts and bruises
 
To be honest, it's something that is very specific to football. It's almost like people feel it's their right to abuse and intimidate the ref. Half of these incidents will be 'justified' by those who committed them (or who are associated with the perpetrator) because 'it was a terrible decision'.

It's also leaking down from the top level too.

And I agree with TAM. Ban them for life.
 
straightatthewall said:
To be honest, it's something that is very specific to football. It's almost like people feel it's their right to abuse and intimidate the ref. Half of these incidents will be 'justified' by those who committed them (or who are associated with the perpetrator) because 'it was a terrible decision'.

It's also leaking down from the top level too.

And I agree with TAM. Ban them for life.
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The ref in my lads game was about 16 or 17 and was reffing a game involving an under 15s team versus an under 16s team

It was obvious from the 1st minute that the older team were just trying to bully and intimidate the younger team

Awful challenges, off the ball stuff, elbows and constant mouthing off and they got away with it all until the scuffle at the end when the game got abandoned

There wasn't one yellow card
 
This is a real problem at grass roots level. Parents and coaches screaming at teenage referees is absolutely embarrassing and wrong. I see it every single week and in some cases they have reduced the referee to tears.
 
King Billy said:
This is a real problem at grass roots level. Parents and coaches screaming at teenage referees is absolutely embarrassing and wrong. I see it every single week and in some cases they have reduced the referee to tears.
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The problem isn't necessarily the refs although in my lads case it was, its the authorities and a complete lack of common sense when appointing the refs

There was an experienced ref on the next pitch doing a Under 12s girls game

Bizarre
 
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Philbfctrois said:
The ref in my lads game was about 16 or 17 and was reffing a game involving an under 15s team versus an under 16s team

It was obvious from the 1st minute that the older team were just trying to bully and intimidate the younger team

Awful challenges, off the ball stuff, elbows and constant mouthing off and they got away with it all until the scuffle at the end when the game got abandoned

There wasn't one yellow card
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Yeah. Seen similar with a young ref. Of course the problem is, if people get terrible abuse, then who’s going to want to take up reffing? And then you have to have young refs on inappropriate games as there’s nobody else.
 
Managed youth teams for just over 10 years. Eldest sons U16 had their last game last season. I currently run my two other lads teams - U13s and U10s.

The parents I've had and got now are on the whole spot on. Encouraging their lads and staying on the right side of competitiveness. The lads in my team know the refs decision is final and I wont tolerate any back chat / abuse directed at referees. My middle son also referees U10 matches and below.

Abuse, bullying or whatever you want to call it, needs everyone to take responsibility and call it out when they see it. If that involves stopping a game then I'd be more than prepared to do that.
 
Philbfctrois said:
The problem isn't necessarily the refs although in my lads case it was, its the authorities and a complete lack of common sense when appointing the refs

There was an experienced ref on the next pitch doing a Under 12s girls game

Bizarre
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Cant make excuses. The adults there - I.e. the managers and if needed the parents should of stepped in and stopped this from escalating.
 
straightatthewall said:
To be honest, it's something that is very specific to football. It's almost like people feel it's their right to abuse and intimidate the ref. Half of these incidents will be 'justified' by those who committed them (or who are associated with the perpetrator) because 'it was a terrible decision'.

It's also leaking down from the top level too.

And I agree with TAM. Ban them for life.
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You’re right about one thing, that it stems from the top. And by the top I mean the PL, half of both teams surrounding the officials, trying to intimidate, shouting in their faces, it’s way out of control. However to a certain extent officials themselves are to blame, under the laws of the game only the captain is allowed to approach the referee to ‘discuss’ a decision, do you ever see players getting booked or better still sent off for it, no. Until some firm disciplinary action is taken at the top level it will continue to filter down. As they say until changes are made, nothing will change.
 
straightatthewall said:
To be honest, it's something that is very specific to football. It's almost like people feel it's their right to abuse and intimidate the ref. Half of these incidents will be 'justified' by those who committed them (or who are associated with the perpetrator) because 'it was a terrible decision'.

It's also leaking down from the top level too.
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Absolutely.
Just like diving, amateur players and kids see top players and managers abusing officials on TV and usually getting away with it. So they imitate them.

Yes, officials' decisions can impact results, promotions/relegations and ultimately careers.
Questioning decisions has to be allowed, but giving officials abuse or incessant earache should be punished.
Can't stand managers who spend the match berating the 4th official.

Set the standard at the top level and discipline those who transgress. Extra long bans for repeat offenders.
 
Philbfctrois said:
Surely the ref should be in control isn't that what we are told
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If I use your example of the 16 / 17 year old ref. This is a minor! A boy who might be still at school or has just left.

The adults surrounding the pitch, managers and parents, surely can recognize that this lad needed help. That help should of come by the parents taking responsibility for their own sons behaviour. The manager should be managing his players and taking action against those not behavouring correctly.

Everyone needs to take responsibility not just be reliant on a 16 year old boy!
 
Long-shanks said:
If I use your example of the 16 / 17 year old ref. This is a minor! A boy who might be still at school or has just left.

The adults surrounding the pitch, managers and parents, surely can recognize that this lad needed help. That help should of come by the parents taking responsibility for their own sons behaviour. The manager should be managing his players and taking action against those not behavouring correctly.

Everyone needs to take responsibility not just be reliant on a 16 year old boy!
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Yep but it was all one way and their coaches did nothing

My lad had to physically fight off 3 of their players
 
Philbfctrois said:
Yep but it was all one way and their coaches did nothing

My lad had to physically fight off 3 of their players
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Would you of stood this kind of abuse aimed towards your lad in the street? I know you wouldn't of done so why does that kind of abuse make it ok on a football field?

If that had happened during a match I was managing I would of (as the opposition manager) called my lads in and spoken to the opp manager and referee to explain the situation, if things didnt then improve I would of cancelled the game. Full report then given to the local FA and action / escalations then carried out.

No excuse for abuse ever.
 
I don't understand why the FA doesn't change the way Referees must be approached. Why cant it be like Rugby Union where only the captain can speak to the ref and all the players must address the ref as Sir. If this was implemented all the way across football it would change the way refs are treated instantly. Any foul or abusive language or getting in the refs face must be an immediate red card. Teams wont like playing with 8 men after a few gobby individuals have been sent for an early bath! they will soon catch on to the changes.
 
Long-shanks said:
Would you of stood this kind of abuse aimed towards your lad in the street? I know you wouldn't of done so why does that kind of abuse make it ok on a football field?

If that had happened during a match I was managing I would of (as the opposition manager) called my lads in and spoken to the opp manager and referee to explain the situation, if things didnt then improve I would of cancelled the game. Full report then given to the local FA and action / escalations then carried out.

No excuse for abuse ever.
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Our coaches did speak to their coaches several times and the ref

Apparently you arent allowed to speak to the ref though so you can't have it both ways

The top and bottom of it was that there was kid reffing a match where he had no control over what went on
 
Its true that the bad behaviour at the top of the football pyramid sets the tone. I have a couple of players in my u10 side who regularly watch premier league and unsurprisingly, they are the ones who I have to remind about how we play the game. One asked me if he could dive in the penalty area the other week because we were losing (I told him he could, but he would be substituted before he hit the ground...).

It seems very simple to fix too, just have a sin-bin and use it. IMO it wouldn't take many episodes of players sat next to their angry manager as they're a couple of players down for 10 minutes, before they start thinking about it. I have a mate who reckons that'll never happen, because football is a world game, and some parts of the world see gamesmanship and seeing how far you can push the rules as a the best part of the game. I dunno if that's true or not!

On your issue Phil, take your point about youth refs not much older than the players, but I think it also sounds largely down to the opposition coaches. Sounds like they have forgotten why they got in to youth football in the first place, and just want to win regardless. Sad state of affairs. If my team were bullying the opposition, I'd be whipping them off the pitch for a serious conversation in droves.
 
Philbfctrois said:
Our coaches did speak to their coaches several times and the ref

Apparently you arent allowed to speak to the ref though so you can't have it both ways

The top and bottom of it was that there was kid reffing a match where he had no control over what went on
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As mentioned 10 years plus managing and coaching at junior level so I talk to refs every week.

Sounds like abuse was happening on and off the pitch. Your manager should of cancelled the game and reported what had happened to the local FA otherwise nothing will change and the same opposition will carry on with their abusive behaviour.
 
Believe it or not . Attitude even occurs in over 50s walking football . I have witnessed fights on the pitch . The only way to get referees is pay them well and thats not happening.
 
As a ex forces player, and knowing how to handle people and sittiuations i seem to get some abuse still as a Ref this last 10 yrs. So a young Ref will get better with more games. Yes i do get somethings wrong, but it is only my view that matters. If you think the Refs are so bad in your area , take the course to help change it. UTP
 
In my experience players' attitude can be controlled by the manager, should they so wish. They should be held accountable.

Same goes for parents or whoever. I think it was Man Utd girls at Carrington where someone watching was giving either the ref of the oppo some verbals and the manager sent round a message to tell the someone if they didn't shut up the girl would be subbed. They shut up.

On young refs, I've seen mini fc aged 15 ref and get nasty stick (whether his decision was right or wrong was unimportant) and I think he stood up the bloke/woman, which was the right thing to do. I can't remember whether I chirped in to the ** after as well, but it would be unlike me not to.
 
WIZARD OF TANGERINE said:
Believe it or not . Attitude even occurs in over 50s walking football . I have witnessed fights on the pitch . The only way to get referees is pay them well and thats not happening.
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The money young refs can earn is very good.

U10s and below - £20
U11s - U12s - £27
U13s - U14s - £30
U15s - U16s - £35
 
One game I was ‘managing’ a few years ago, u11s. Ref was 16 and the opposition manager 5 minutes in called the ref over and to.d him he was going to ‘knock him out’.

Another manager - same league got a ‘final warning’ from the league for punching a parent. Then did it again (to another parent). He got prosecuted and was on bail with a condition not to approach the filed on match days. He measured the precise distance, then stood the other side of it with a dog he claimed he was walking.

Just before lockdown I was watching my other son and a fight broke out with parents running on the pitch, women first, then the men. One of them is a professional boxer so basically his fists are weapons.

It’s deplorable. It is children playing football for Heaven’s sake. It certainly should in reality be an option for a 14 year old to earn some money without the threat of violence.
 
Having coached grassroots for 12 years and now in the final year with our u18’s, I can say that the biggest issues are with teams in certain geographic areas and sometimes entire leagues within those areas. It is a mirror of societal issues, but 95% of games in our league go without any trouble or abuse.

We currently have a complaint with the FA about a representative side we played last season, in a regional FA competition with experienced adult officials. Fortunately, the most serious incidents were witnessed by officials, including open racism and sly punches to the head after the final whistle. However, there was intimidation and threats of being knifed after the game. Now this was a team selected from across an entire league, supposedly the best of the best, and the coaching was shocking and supportive of the behaviour. The same team behaved in exactly the same way in their other group match. Their parents were horrendous, just scum, threatening our parents and players. Having won the game and for safety reasons we had to keep our players and parents on the pitch for 30 minutes after the match. I had never witnessed anything like it in all my years of playing and coaching.

We don’t tolerate any coach, player or parent behaving inappropriately. It’s down to clubs to enforce the code of conduct and ban players & parents, but we see that at certain clubs the behaviour is repeated with every year group. You know certain games will have nothing to do with football. Unfortunately, the standard of Level 1 coaching means that too many unsuitable people are coaching children.

It’s a criminal offence to abuse or intimidate a referee under 18. FA Safeguarding has been enhanced, but it’s useless if clubs and coaches allow this behaviour from players & parents.
 
There's a general lack of discipline these days, that seems to get worse with each generation, this effects society on a whole & not just football matches. There's no quick fix unfortunately.
 
hills98 said:
Its true that the bad behaviour at the top of the football pyramid sets the tone. I have a couple of players in my u10 side who regularly watch premier league and unsurprisingly, they are the ones who I have to remind about how we play the game. One asked me if he could dive in the penalty area the other week because we were losing (I told him he could, but he would be substituted before he hit the ground...).

It seems very simple to fix too, just have a sin-bin and use it. IMO it wouldn't take many episodes of players sat next to their angry manager as they're a couple of players down for 10 minutes, before they start thinking about it. I have a mate who reckons that'll never happen, because football is a world game, and some parts of the world see gamesmanship and seeing how far you can push the rules as a the best part of the game. I dunno if that's true or not!

On your issue Phil, take your point about youth refs not much older than the players, but I think it also sounds largely down to the opposition coaches. Sounds like they have forgotten why they got in to youth football in the first place, and just want to win regardless. Sad state of affairs. If my team were bullying the opposition, I'd be whipping them off the pitch for a serious conversation in droves.
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We have a blue card in Walking Football
2 mins off after ref speaks to you about anything 3x
Straight blue for dissent or bad foul
Works well
 
Philbfctrois said:
Wow ...some right holier than thou on this thread ....
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You've agreed it's a problem, people have then provided their experiences of the problem and some have provided solutions that have worked for them and their teams to solve the problem.

If someone had offered me a possible solution to a problem I'd appreciate it rather than try and belittle it.
 
straightatthewall said:
To be honest, it's something that is very specific to football. It's almost like people feel it's their right to abuse and intimidate the ref. Half of these incidents will be 'justified' by those who committed them (or who are associated with the perpetrator) because 'it was a terrible decision'.

It's also leaking down from the top level too.

And I agree with TAM. Ban them for life.
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It isn't specific to football.

Both my lads played rugby league upto a couple of years ago and in certain parts of the country its as bad as football.
It's mainly the parents who want their little Bobby to do well in the game because they've never amounted to anything.
A tournament in Scarborough springs to mind where you had parents of a Leeds team we were playing actually tripping our players up as the were going down the wing!!! Nothing done.
Questioned EVERY decision the referee gave.
Invaded the pitch when one of our lads timed a tackle to perfection and took out their cocky little shit who was running in try after try as our lads wouldn't go anywhere near the opposition parents as they were so intimidated (u10's match)

The kids were great with the ref if a little cocky, the parents not so.
 
Wizzerboy said:
It isn't specific to football.

Both my lads played rugby league upto a couple of years ago and in certain parts of the country its as bad as football.
It's mainly the parents who want their little Bobby to do well in the game because they've never amounted to anything.
A tournament in Scarborough springs to mind where you had parents of a Leeds team we were playing actually tripping our players up as the were going down the wing!!! Nothing done.
Questioned EVERY decision the referee gave.
Invaded the pitch when one of our lads timed a tackle to perfection and took out their cocky little shit who was running in try after try as our lads wouldn't go anywhere near the opposition parents as they were so intimidated (u10's match)

The kids were great with the ref if a little cocky, the parents not so.
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That's pretty shocking Wizzer. What more can i say other than some people are just massive cunts. Leeds seems to be a common denominator...

In general though, I'd still say that in most other sports, the officials are not only treated with respect, but there's a clear and generally accepted level of support for the job they do by those that take part. In football, that's simply not the case. It's like the ref is there to be a figure of abuse and some level of treating he or she like shit is considered 'part and parcel'.
 
WIZARD OF TANGERINE said:
Not for walking football and i would suggest that's not enough for what they have to go through at some games.
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Ah not to sure what refs are paid at walking footy or the duration of matches.

My 13 year old lad is made up with £20 for 50 mins work when some of his 14 year old friends have a part time jobs at £4 per hour
 
Long-shanks said:
You've agreed it's a problem, people have then provided their experiences of the problem and some have provided solutions that have worked for them and their teams to solve the problem.

If someone had offered me a possible solution to a problem I'd appreciate it rather than try and belittle it.
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Well both teams have now been charged with failing to control their players and believe it or not our team has got an additional charge of entering the field of play (obviously to stop the fighting)

So your well meaning advice wasn't that great after all
 
I dont know your team or the opposition. Theres always two sides to an argument - do you think things could of been handled better in retrospect? Could things have been handled differently in the build up that ended up with the game being abandoned? Have lessons been learnt?
 
I would urge anyone who loves football, but is not very good (like me) to take up refereeing, as I did.
My problem was that I was too old to go far when I became a Referee.
However, if you love the game, then Refereeing is a worthwhile way of putting something back into the game.
 
Long-shanks said:
Ah not to sure what refs are paid at walking footy or the duration of matches.

My 13 year old lad is made up with £20 for 50 mins work when some of his 14 year old friends have a part time jobs at £4 per hour
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Walking is usually refed by volunteers that may get given a few quid if they are lucky. I used to ref a little and I wouldn't do it for a job ,but i can see how a thirteen year old could get on board.
 
I read an article today alleging the ex Welsh International Ashley Williams had his son's sides oppositions coach in a headlock during a match recently and had been charged by Manchester F.A !
Glad my girls play netball....
 
Long-shanks said:
I dont know your team or the opposition. Theres always two sides to an argument - do you think things could of been handled better in retrospect? Could things have been handled differently in the build up that ended up with the game being abandoned? Have lessons been learnt?
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Yeah lessons are don't appoint a 16 year old referee to ref kids of a similar age
 
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