Project Fear
- Thread starter Shandypants
- Start date
Shandypants
Well-known member
Always tangerine
Well-known member
Well its been a decline happening gradually after the referendum result, accelerating
through the Johnson period, leading up to the current economic madhouse .
through the Johnson period, leading up to the current economic madhouse .
glasshalffull
Well-known member
More than six years, very very many billions of pounds, a bitterly divided and sadly diminished country too late, but well done The Telegraph.
Shandypants
Well-known member
Not sure about the well done, they were the biggest champions of brexit, but even they can't keep the pretence that it's working in the face of its failure and political instability its created. If we had remained does anyone seriously think we'd have had Johnson and Truss as PM. The utterly cretinous Patel and Braverman as home secretary, Rees Mogg in the cabinet. I've tried to switch off from politics of late but I'm finding myself enraged by the utter shower of shite that has come post brexit and those fuckers are running out of excuses, whether it be a ship stuck in the suez canal, covid or ukraine. They were all distractions that do have an impact but nowhere near as longlasting as brexit. Now people are worse off, the game is up and the torygragh knows it. Food has rocketed in price, importing and exporting stuff has gone through the roof. And what for? There are more people crossing the channel than ever before...
kerrytangerine
Well-known member
You are by some margin the most infantile poster on here.No man or woman worth their salt would be scared of Brexit. Must be past your bedtime now wimps.
glasshalffull
Well-known member
I will give them a small amount of credit for being the first to do a reverse ferret.
ElBurroSinNombre
Well-known member
Twats
Stupid ** twats
Like Truss, they were told what would happen if they pursued their course but we all have to bear the consequences of their stupidity.
Hopefully some adults will be back in the room soon but the damage is done.
Never forgive or forget the architects of this shit-show who have reduced our great country to a global laughing stock
Stupid ** twats
Like Truss, they were told what would happen if they pursued their course but we all have to bear the consequences of their stupidity.
Hopefully some adults will be back in the room soon but the damage is done.
Never forgive or forget the architects of this shit-show who have reduced our great country to a global laughing stock
Shandypants
Well-known member
Jesus read the twitter thread of the usual brexit wallopers. It's a disgrace, farage Alison Pearrson, Guido Fawkes, Hannon. There Tufton st wankers should be run out of town. Taking the rouble these shysters.
R
rockontommy
Guest
Agree with the sentiments but the world economy is presently circling around the toilet bowl. The best we can hope for is a leader who is good at swimming against the tide (which we haven't got).
Shandypants
Well-known member
I can only think of Rees Moggs father who wrote about disaster capitalism. It's what they want, the rich will make a fortune and what for?
traffordtang
Well-known member
I really want to see them get there comeuppance but sadly the mess is so huge I doubt it’s going to be sorted in my lifetime.
And for anyone shouting for the return of Johnson take note of the above “ to build on what boris began”. They’re two of a kind with the same aims. Truss just tried to push it too far too fast. Because she managed to demote Johnson to only being the second worse prime minister in history doesn’t mean we should have him back
BigHandsOliverKahn
Well-known member
It's now getting far beyond Project Fear. Project Fear only stated the most obvious things that would deteriorate. We are now finding out about myriads of damage that hadn't even been thought of.
tommytwojags
Well-known member
Life is tough at the moment. Germany's economy will fall into recession in 2023, shrinking 0.4% compared to the 2.5% growth previously forecast, thanks to the economic war Russia's President Vladimir Putin is waging, German Economy Minister Robert Habeck announced on Wednesday. Chancellor Scholz said "It will not be easy but if we all continue to adapt to the changed situation - the citizens, the companies and the politicians - then we will get through this winter." Italy and Spain have also warned of pending recession.
We could blame our economic difficulties on Brexit but considering the problems being experienced globally and in Europe in particular it would be very narrow minded.
We could blame our economic difficulties on Brexit but considering the problems being experienced globally and in Europe in particular it would be very narrow minded.
Shandypants
Well-known member
You keep burying your head. No one is pretending that the world is in a good place but can you explain how brexit has helped the UK? I cannot see one single benefit, leaving the single market has been an utter disaster. Political instability has ensued as nobody at the helm really believes its a good idea. May and Truss were remainers and Johnson used the topic to fulfill his ambitions.
On the back of all the fantastic opportunities that would be opened up to the brave, the bold, the innovative, the creative and the financially astute, Nigel Farage has ended up selling birthday messages on line for £50 a time!!
I think that tells us everything we need to know about Brexit!!!
I think that tells us everything we need to know about Brexit!!!
glasshalffull
Well-known member
How long before we are being given the balance of payments deficit figures on the news every month again?
Shandypants
Well-known member
Cost of EU membership 12 billion
Cost of track and trace 25 billion
Cost of furlough 70 billion
Cost of energy bail out 130 billion
The 12 billion was portrayed as an eye watering amount, the kind of money that would make a huge difference to the NHS (annual spend 150bn) it turns out to be a paltry amount, surprise surprise.
Cost of track and trace 25 billion
Cost of furlough 70 billion
Cost of energy bail out 130 billion
The 12 billion was portrayed as an eye watering amount, the kind of money that would make a huge difference to the NHS (annual spend 150bn) it turns out to be a paltry amount, surprise surprise.
tommytwojags
Well-known member
Brexit is what it is. The UK left the club via a democratic vote and will forge its own direction over a number of years. We're not going back and all the message board whining in the world won't change that. Claims that our woes are due to Brexit are quite simply factually incorrect and in fact our decision to leave the EU looks increasingly trivial in the light of pandemics, world supply problems, potential nuclear war in Europe, economic crises, political upheaval etc.
The rise in populism across Europe is leading the EU in a direction that UK's remainers really don't want to be heading. In due course, the UK will find its own place in Europe, as a leading force, and will work with Germany, France, Ireland etc in the way that was intended when the decision to leave the EU was made, but we won't be part of the EU's army or its currency or its federal government or its increasing political move to the right.
Before that, three things must happen: remainers have to accept that we are out of the EU and finally let it go (unlikely to happen in the near future); the EU must stop using Ireland as a weapon to punish the UK (very likely to happen now that the Republic has acknowledged the failures and weaknesses of the NI Protocol); and Messr Macron must bring to an end his policy of placing obstacles in the path of the UK to purge his anger at the UK's rejection of his personal EU project (also likely to happen as Northern EU states side with the UK and Eastern EU states realise the triviality of these actions compared with their own economic, military and financial issues).
Eventually, the UK will forge ahead as a strong sovereign nation and will collaborate with other countries, both inside and outside the EU, as it sees fit, in the end finding its proper place in the world order and all this talk about the UK's role in the EU will be insignificant history.
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What a lot of hot air.
We will be applying for the single market membership within the next 5 years.
We will not rejoin the EU within the next 30 as our application would be refused.
It will be necessary for 1 bitter backward looking generation too stubborn to admit they were wrong to have completely died off first.
tommytwojags
Well-known member
Considering the Commission's underlying fear that the UK's departure would significantly weaken its project, the EU would see it as the greatest victory in its history if it were to persuade the UK to rejoin. There will be no refusal. There will be no application.
ElBurroSinNombre
Well-known member
Always tangerine
Well-known member
Resort to insults , sometimes best to say nothing if you have nothing to sayNo man or woman worth their salt would be scared of Brexit. Must be past your bedtime now wimps.
Always tangerine
Well-known member
"I had a dream " Unfortunately in reality thats not whats happening. Many SMEs in this country have had to stop exporting to Europe, their biggest market , and many will or have been finished by it. But hang onto your fantasy by all means.
tommytwojags
Well-known member
We left the EU, so yes many UK businesses stopped exporting to the EU. And many EU businesses stopped exporting to the UK. That's what happens when you leave a club.
Shandypants
Well-known member
Yes I want to get fit but I cancelled my gym membership. Instead I jump about on the spot watching Joe Wicks videos.
Matesrates
Well-known member
We’ve had a pandemic for the first time in 100 years and a war in Europe which nobody thought would ever happen again. They had a major impact worldwide.
Who knows what position Brexit would be in without those two events.
Who knows what position Brexit would be in without those two events.
bollieboy
Well-known member
I think we all know. Detrimental to the UK economy.
Costero Poderoso
Well-known member
This is one of the silliest things I’ve ever read about Brexit and it goes a long way to show how many Brexit voters have an unshakable dogmatic faith in their own personal version of Brexit.
My apologies but this is going to be a long one and an angry one, I need something cathartic after yesterday.
Brexit is what it is. The UK left the club via a democratic vote and will forge its own direction over a number of years. We HAVE left the EU we are all well aware of that, from queuing at immigration, to needing passports for international financial transactions in the EU. Those of us who were pro remain are very well aware of our leaving and are often a very personal price.
The democratic vote was secured by a minority of voters about 34%, there were those who couldn’t vote (expats who it directly affected) around 7% of voters and 30% or so who were ambivalent about the issue and didn’t vote. The actual text of the referendum, which remember was not legally binding, did not define the manner of leaving with the Brexit promoters having hundreds of versions of Brexit from the Norway version, to the Australia version to the WTO version and so on. Cameron initiated an ill-considered referendum to protect his leadership of the conservative party, Theresa May triggered article 21 before the agreed consultations on the nature of the UK’s relationship with Europe going forward, to protect her position as Prime Minister. The fuckwittery displayed by the conservative party in the period after the vote (and in most cases the opposition) has been unprecedented. The method of leaving was very clearly outlined, and had mostly been written by people from the UK in response to eastern European countries entering the EU who may not have shrugged off their autocratic tendencies. The fantasy of Brexit negotiators and their supporters claiming they could leave and maintain club benefits and it was just EU intransience and anti-British sentiment meant that not a single sensible agreement could be put into place prior to leaving, and six years later it is still being assumed that the UK can break international agreements and not pay a price.
Claims that our woes are due to Brexit are quite simply factually incorrect. NO this is truly delusional, there are other issues in the world that are affecting the economy but the effect of Brexit is palpable, economically, socially, politically. The problems at Dover, the problems with customs, the problems with red tape, the need to negotiate trade agreements and build relationships with other non EU countries were predicted and are not the fault of the French or EU commission, it is simply the fault of the UK government not preparing for effects of Brexit that were predicted would happen.
The rise in populism across Europe is leading the EU in a direction that UK's remainers really don't want to be heading. In due course, the UK will find its own place in Europe, as a leading force, and will work with Germany, France, Ireland etc in the way that was intended when the decision to leave the EU was made,
This would be funny, but I’m not laughing, the rise in populism - Boris Johnson won the election in the UK on the back of “getting Brexit done”. A populist, Bojo – with not a single coherent policy apart from “getting it done” – and he didn’t get it done cos it still needs ** resolving.
The UK probably will find other methods, in fact they are happening already, The UK is considering joining a European political "club of nations" the "European Political Community", now maybe Brexit adherents can explain, using the EU membership example as being a loss of sovereignty, how an exclusively political union between nations isn’t a loss of sovereignty.
The working with Germany and France and Ireland that was intended is your personal opinion of how Brexit should have happened - it hasn’t happened that way and it has been a clusterfuck and yet here you are saying that Brexit has been trivial in the current crisis in the UK. I understand that it must be difficult to accept that your beloved Tory party is run by a bunch of absolute cretins, and that you probably believed the instigators when they talked of no downsides (and from your comments you quite obviously still believe that), but the Brexit that happened and that we now live with was a complete disaster. So much so that many of the major corporate bodies and their owners who backed if not initiated Brexit are now looking for individual exception to new immigration rules to fix the problems that they have created for themselves.
The EU’s increasing political move to the right – really. One of the big issues raised by Brexit supporters was the increasing tendency of the EU towards a socialist ideology incompatible with the UK. How do you explain the tory party hostility towards Human Rights, the hostility towards immigrants and unions, and job security and wage rises, and access to health care, and the idea that a couple of million people could die to ensure herd immunity and protect the economy. The political genius that is Liz Truss was elected on a platform that is extreme right wing. Now I don’t know if you are a member of the Tory Party but it wouldn’t surprise me if you are and voted for Truss and her somewhat confused economic policies and extreme right ideologies. The EU moving to the right should be your nirvana.
How long will it be before the Brexit voters stop blaming France, Macron the EU commission et al for problems that were entirely created by a self-serving group of chancers, and their frankly deluded supporters. It’s not the so called remoaners who haven’t accepted Brexit, its people like you who still think it WAS a good idea, still think it IS a good idea but refuse to accept it doesn’t match with their personal faith based understanding of what Brexit should be. Please deal with it, because the sooner you and people like you accept that Brexit is a massive problem the sooner someone might get voted in to fix it.
tommytwojags
Well-known member
I would love to debate this subject with you, but frankly anyone who uses the "you and people like you" and "this is one of the silliest things I’ve ever read" and "this is truly delusional" statements is clearly not open to sensible discussion.
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BigHandsOliverKahn
Well-known member
You might as well have your eye balls surgically taken out and the sockets stitched up for good as you still can't see all the damage Brexit and the ongoing calamity following it is doing to this country.
bollieboy
Well-known member
And we still have introduced the required checks on goods coming in from the EU due to the logistical chaos that will cause. That one is being constantly pushed back (thank god) but somewhere along the road the WTO will be looking for implementation.
Costero Poderoso
Well-known member
I'm more than open to discussion, but as with the original concerns raised about Brexit being labelled project fear and dismissed without discussion I seriously doubt you can discuss any aspect rationally based on events that have happened and are happening. Pick a topic and see where it goes.
T
TheRealKingKenny
Guest
Or you’ve got no answer to his argument because he’s right.
Wizzerboy
Well-known member
Go to BFC fit fans I lost 2 stone it'll do you the world of good and you'll have nothing to moan about win win
Without those two events we would still have diminished opportunities for our younger people and most businesses that export, because of Brexit.
Covid and the war in Ukraine is the same for most countries, if anything the war in Ukraine should be less of an issue for us than Poland for example because it isn't right on our doorstep.
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basilrobbie3
Well-known member
When your idea of debating is to shrug your shoulders and say "Brexit is what it is" and then go on to claim it isn't a factor in the damage being caused to our country, then I think you might be the person with the bigger problem.
The mess we are in now as a country is down to many factors. But the first and major one was our decision to leave the EU with absolutely no plan for what we were going to do to prosper economically when we are outside the biggest free market in the world. We as an electorate were let down by two different sets of politicians :
a) the remainer camp, who dd such a feeble job of explaining the economic harm that would result, while completely under-estimating the sense of dislocation that many people feel from Westminster-style politics
b) the leave politicians, who exploited that sense of dislocation with lie after lie that were designed to pander to people's worst fears and prejudices
The people in the second camp are the free-market libertarians who have been so badly exposed over the last couple of months. The poverty of their argument is matched only by that of their intellect, and their talent. They've been gambling with all our lives and futures in order to perpetrate a vast social and economic experiment. It wouldn't have worked in the 1920's and it certainly won't work in the global economy of the 2020's.
I posted on here the day after the Brexit referendum that I was ashamed of what we have become. Now you can add the word embarrassed. I also feel sorry for anyone who is under thirty ; anyone who lives in East Anglia and is worried about climate change ; anyone who doesn't own their own home, but would like to ; anyone who has to navigate our care system, or what will be left of it in ten years time. Our political class have fucked up their life prospects, possibly beyond any chance of recall. Still, "it is what it is"............
Archibald Knox
Well-known member
We will eventually reapply to join the EU, whether in 10 or 20 years, as an economic necessity... but on their terms, including joining the Euro. We will never again have membership terms as advantageous as we had before Brexit.
Archibald Knox
Well-known member
And I trust the ultimate outcome of the old Etonians’ gambling (Cameron) and selfish ambition (Bozo) is the gutting of the Tories down to few dozen seats in the next GE, so that the rump splinters into several fanatical factions all fighting each other like rats in a sack.
tommytwojags
Well-known member
OK let's start with the popular contention on this board that Brexit is responsible for the UK's economic difficulties. I say that this is a total misconception and support that view with the prediction from the German government that its economy will fall into recession in 2023. In fact, the eurozone’s big four economies, Germany, France, Italy and Spain, have had their growth forecasts for 2023 downgraded by the IMF and will enter recession. The reason given for this is a combination of covid, the war in Ukraine, the global energy crisis, the weak Euro and sustained inflation.
In the UK, inflation is at a 40 year high and it too is expected to enter recession. The reasons are given as the impact of soaring energy prices, supply chain disruption, shortage of workers and covid. Analysts at the Economist Intelligence Unit say the pain for affected countries could go on for some time while they wean themselves off Russian hydrocarbons and build up renewables sources of energy. The EIU said. “The winter of 2023-24 will also be challenging and high inflation and sluggish growth will continue until at least 2024.”
Apart from the UK, many of the world’s leading economies will fall into a recession within the next 12 months as central banks move to aggressively tighten monetary policy to fight surging inflation so as well as the Eurozone and the UK expect recession in the US, Japan, South Korea, Australia and Canada next year. A result of Brexit? Not even close.
bollieboy
Well-known member
Jeez, you have cloth ears.
Shandypants
Well-known member
Yes the world is in turmoil and recessions are likely to hit major economies. How is that a defence of brexit? How does leaving the single market and stifling trade help, many companies are also struggling for staff (the promise of increased wages isn't happening is it). You cannot defend brexit by saying other countries are in recession, they come and go. A very strange argument that at best deflects the issue and demonstrates a blinkered fundamentalism.
Lytham_fy8
Well-known member
It's fine for the Torygraph to tell us all Brexit was a bad idea now as everyone has made their money already. the Barclay brothers are now laughing at the poors calling us suckers, because let's face it, anyone who voted for Brexit didn't really do their research.
Fact.
Fact.
ElBurroSinNombre
Well-known member
Brexit has cost around 5% of GDP and has also created a shortage of labour which damages potential economic growth. These things are not really debatable, they are just facts. If you are saying that neither of these factors hasn't effected the UK economy then you are simply economically illiterate. This is quite apart from the damage to our reputation and standing in the world which also has economic repercussions.
'It is what it is' isn't really a defence. And the world doesn't stand still, we can change things in the future if we want. For instance, we may want to join the single market again within the next few years and in all likelihood we will. If Truss had really wanted to stimulate growth she would have done it, it's a very simple step, doesn't cost much and is risk free.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Put it like this.
It’s raining and we’re all going to get wet. However….
Some people have thick and warm coats.
Others have thick and warm coats plus umbrellas.
One person alone has ripped off all their clothes and is left only with his slightly soiled Y fronts. And is now running around in the rain laughing, crying, and shouting “wibble”.
That person is the U.K. thanks to the Britannia Unchained/ERG/UKIP/RMT etc mob.
traffordtang
Well-known member
So basically what the Times is saying is get the Tories out, let Labour in to sort out the mess then bring back the Tories. Nothing new there then.
Yep, excellent synopsis of our current plight.
The self-harm we have inflicted on ourselves and future generations is both truly astounding, and deeply dispiriting.
From Cameron`s hubristic complacency to Truss`s Ladybird book of economics, it has been six years of world-class mismanagement from people who have let the public down time and again in pursuit of wonky ideologies propagated by client journalists and think tanks shilling on behalf of shadowy backers.
`It is what it is` is merely a thought terminating cliche of the most banal type.
You would have thought that the Brexit penny might have dropped for most by now, especially the Conservative party...