Online Petition

Although I agree with the sentiments it won’t make a bit of difference.
The only difference will come from inside the Tory MP base if they choose to revolt.

But how many times can they do that with credibility ?
Making Boris look like a true leader by comparison. And Theresa May felt the full force of the boys club and misogyny with little analysis of her policies and intent.
 
Lala said:
Although I agree with the sentiments it won’t make a bit of difference.
The only difference will come from inside the Tory MP base if they choose to revolt.

But how many times can they do that with credibility ?
Making Boris look like a true leader by comparison. And Theresa May felt the full force of the boys club and misogyny with little analysis of her policies and intent.
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You say it makes Boris look like a true leader. However, you then point out that May felt the full force of the boys club and misogyny. Yes, as led by Johnson himself.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
You say it makes Boris look like a true leader. However, you then point out that May felt the full force of the boys club and misogyny. Yes, as led by Johnson himself.
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Totally agree( with myself ). It does makes Boris look like a better leader compared to Truss, or a better politician for sure.

But May had more sincerity and rationale when she governed , than either of them, but Boris and his boys were oh so quick to break her down.
The sad thing is that many of those hating Truss now jumped on the bandwagon to destroy May, just because she was a Tory, without giving her a reasonable hearing.

The narrow minded and stuck in their one vision political allegiance ways ( Labour till I die) didn’t give her a chance and relished her demise, often just to score points, so we are where we are. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

May is the only Tory I have voted for and given the opposition at the time, I don’t regret that choice.
 
Lala said:
Totally agree( with myself ). It does makes Boris look like a better leader compared to Truss, or a better politician for sure.

But May had more sincerity and rationale when she governed , than either of them, but Boris and his boys were oh so quick to break her down.
The sad thing is that many of those hating Truss now jumped on the bandwagon to destroy May, just because she was a Tory, without giving her a reasonable hearing.

The narrow minded and stuck in their one vision political allegiance ways ( Labour till I die) didn’t give her a chance and relished her demise, often just to score points, so we are where we are. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

May is the only Tory I have voted for and given the opposition at the time, I don’t regret that choice.
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I agree to some extent, but then she did call a totally unnecessary election, and run a truly terrible campaign. That used up most of her political capital and she was unlikely to last long after that.
 
glasshalffull said:
I agree to some extent, but then she did call a totally unnecessary election, and run a truly terrible campaign. That used up most of her political capital and she was unlikely to last long after that.
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But it was an election she felt was necessary and she won.
Like many feel an election is necessary now, she felt like she needed that vote of confidence from the electorate at that time. And she got it lets remember.

Only to be turned on by her own , whilst the fans of the opposition chuckled away at her demise, without analysing her credentials and laying themselves open to the shit show we have now.

Without that election half the nation would be running around saying she didn’t have a mandate from the people to govern. So she got it.

She really couldn’t win.
 
Lala said:
But it was an election she felt was necessary and she won.
Like many feel an election is necessary now, she felt like she needed that vote of confidence from the electorate at that time. And she got it lets remember.

Only to be turned on by her own , whilst the fans of the opposition chuckled away at her demise, without analysing her credentials and laying themselves open to the shit show we have now.

Without that election half the nation would be running around saying she didn’t have a mandate from the people to govern. So she got it.

She really couldn’t win.
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If she had won that election with the majority she thought she was going to get then she might have had a chance of “winning”.
Trading in a small but working majority to hanging on by the skin of her teeth with the help of the DUP exposed her to attacks from all sides and not much chance of her regime lasting long.
 
Lala said:
But it was an election she felt was necessary and she won.
Like many feel an election is necessary now, she felt like she needed that vote of confidence from the electorate at that time. And she got it lets remember.

Only to be turned on by her own , whilst the fans of the opposition chuckled away at her demise, without analysing her credentials and laying themselves open to the shit show we have now.

Without that election half the nation would be running around saying she didn’t have a mandate from the people to govern. So she got it.

She really couldn’t win.
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She didn't really win the election that she called.
She ended up being reliant on the DUP and was forced to stuff their mouths with gold in return for their support.
This eventually failed and the coalition fell apart.
Her Brexit deal would have been far better than the one that Johnson negotiated. However, if you want to blame anybody for the demise of her government then you should look no further than the ERG nutters on the Conservative benches. They are the ones who caused her Brexit deal to fail and are now running the country.
Personally I did not find her demise funny, I find it tragic like everything else to do with Brexit. It has damaged our country immeasurably and I think that the electorate are finally realising that they have been done over. The Brexit we have got is essentially about deregulation, privatisation and eroding of workers rights - that is what we will get from Truss if she continues. It is a totally different policy agenda to the one which the Conservative Party was elected to government with in 2019. And that is why we should be having a General Election - these ideas were not put to the electorate.
 
Lala said:
But it was an election she felt was necessary and she won.
Like many feel an election is necessary now, she felt like she needed that vote of confidence from the electorate at that time. And she got it lets remember.

Only to be turned on by her own , whilst the fans of the opposition chuckled away at her demise, without analysing her credentials and laying themselves open to the shit show we have now.

Without that election half the nation would be running around saying she didn’t have a mandate from the people to govern. So she got it.

She really couldn’t win.
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Get what you are saying, Lala, although at the time I had little time for her.

The thought of a leader wanting a democratic mandate, oh, how I laughed. I have been in two minds about PR, but am now firmly committed to it. We need a system where if any party changes its leader when in power, a new GE is called. I was content when Brown took over from Blair, because he continued with the same policies. Johnson and Truss have gone off in a different direction entirely, without the public being able to do anything.

You might be surprised to hear that I would hate the 33% polls lead to be followed through in a GE. I genuinely believe NO party should have an unassailable majority, another reason for supporting PR.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Get what you are saying, Lala, although at the time I had little time for her.

The thought of a leader wanting a democratic mandate, oh, how I laughed. I have been in two minds about PR, but am now firmly committed to it. We need a system where if any party changes its leader when in power, a new GE is called. I was content when Brown took over from Blair, because he continued with the same policies. Johnson and Truss have gone off in a different direction entirely, without the public being able to do anything.

You might be surprised to hear that I would hate the 33% polls lead to be followed through in a GE. I genuinely believe NO party should have an unassailable majority, another reason for supporting PR.
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Agree Mossy, totally 👍
 
tommytwojags said:
The petition probably will be well supported but is pointless as an early general election is not going to happen and in any case it would be immensely harmful to the country.
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In what way would a democratic vote be immensely harmful to the country?

The current Government would have to defend their record, cost their proposals and the opposition set out why they would improve the lot of the citizens.

How is any of that harmful?
 
Wizaard said:
In what way would a democratic vote be immensely harmful to the country?

The current Government would have to defend their record, cost their proposals and the opposition set out why they would improve the lot of the citizens.

How is any of that harmful?
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How is it harmful? We are in the middle of a political crisis, hovering close to recession, in a world supply shortage and very possibly about to become involved in a nuclear war and you ask why a vexatious, provocative anti-tory campaign to manufacture a general election where the government has no obligation or inclination to hold one would be harmful? You would need to have an IQ in single figures to think that would be good for the country.
 
tommytwojags said:
How is it harmful? We are in the middle of a political crisis, hovering close to recession, in a world supply shortage and very possibly about to become involved in a nuclear war and you ask why a vexatious, provocative anti-tory campaign to manufacture a general election where the government has no obligation or inclination to hold one would be harmful? You would need to have an IQ in single figures to think that would be good for the country.
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I bet the markets would react well to this lots' imminent departure.
 
Lala said:
Totally agree( with myself ). It does makes Boris look like a better leader compared to Truss, or a better politician for sure.

But May had more sincerity and rationale when she governed , than either of them, but Boris and his boys were oh so quick to break her down.
The sad thing is that many of those hating Truss now jumped on the bandwagon to destroy May, just because she was a Tory, without giving her a reasonable hearing.

The narrow minded and stuck in their one vision political allegiance ways ( Labour till I die) didn’t give her a chance and relished her demise, often just to score points, so we are where we are. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

May is the only Tory I have voted for and given the opposition at the time, I don’t regret that choice.
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Am I allowed to ask if you feel like voting for someone else else next time?
 
Nothing ever comes of these petitions, unfortunately in this case, I suspect they're more of an email phishing enterprise.
 
tommytwojags said:
How is it harmful? We are in the middle of a political crisis, hovering close to recession, in a world supply shortage and very possibly about to become involved in a nuclear war and you ask why a vexatious, provocative anti-tory campaign to manufacture a general election where the government has no obligation or inclination to hold one would be harmful? You would need to have an IQ in single figures to think that would be good for the country.
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The Tories were voted in on a completely different mandate to that being run by Truss and Kwarteng. There is no legitimacy at all.
 
Wizaard said:
Exactly. At which the case is made and the manifesto published. The manifesto from 2019 is being directly contradicted by this lot.
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But this is the same lot. By winning the GE you command the right to run the country for five years and appoint whatever Cabinet and leader you choose. Two more years and we can go through it all again.
 
tommytwojags said:
How is it harmful? We are in the middle of a political crisis, hovering close to recession, in a world supply shortage and very possibly about to become involved in a nuclear war and you ask why a vexatious, provocative anti-tory campaign to manufacture a general election where the government has no obligation or inclination to hold one would be harmful? You would need to have an IQ in single figures to think that would be good for the country.
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I could take you a lot more seriously if you could stop insulting anyone who disagrees with you. The facts are the PM and Chancellor have made some decisions astounding the public, the banks, the hedge funds, IMF and costing the economy at least £65B, whilst refusing the OBR the opportunity to forecast the effect. Now, you may think carry on is fine, a great number of us think matters will get worse if they are allowed to continue their un democratic assault on UK PLC.

The PM seems to go missing when things get tough, not a great position when you look at the list of Global Problems facing us. Now, her lack of regard for the majority, allied with her finger on our nuclear button, worry the heck out of me. The FT and Telegraph are trailing cuts to what they call benefits, what many of us call paid for pensions. Please show me where in the last manifesto any of their actions were detailed. And if you can't, stop claiming an anti Tory campaign, they have no mandate, and the vast majority of the population know it.
 
tommytwojags said:
How is it harmful? We are in the middle of a political crisis, hovering close to recession, in a world supply shortage and very possibly about to become involved in a nuclear war and you ask why a vexatious, provocative anti-tory campaign to manufacture a general election where the government has no obligation or inclination to hold one would be harmful? You would need to have an IQ in single figures to think that would be good for the country.
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Political crisis? But on another thread you’re telling us the political crisis has passed because the pound rallied (ignoring the fact the price tag was £65 billion).

Sounds to me like you’re a Tory running scared of the judgment of the electorate.
 
tommytwojags said:
But this is the same lot. By winning the GE you command the right to run the country for five years and appoint whatever Cabinet and leader you choose. Two more years and we can go through it all again.
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It’s a maximum of five years. We had general elections in 2015, 2017, and 2019 under this lot. I don’t see any problem with people wanting a GE now if this Government isn’t sticking to it’s manifesto commitments.

These petitions don’t go anywhere and the Tories won’t call an election until a moment which suits them. That’s fine but they don’t have a mandate for the extreme policies that are having significant impact on the economy and people’s lives.

Your argument that people need to shut up and wait the full five years seems weak when we often don’t wait the full term and this government’s policies have taken a major shift.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Nothing ever comes of these petitions, unfortunately in this case, I suspect they're more of an email phishing enterprise.
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That petition is from UK parliament website not a 3rd party who will spam you. Parliament are required to do things depending on the amount of support it gets. For me, it's a way of registering opposition to the current government policies, that's all. If there was a demonstration I could go on I would do that instead or as well. The last time I went on a demo was in the 90s [poll tax], This crisis is the most serious political thing that has happened in my lifetime imo.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
That petition is from UK parliament website not a 3rd party who will spam you. Parliament are required to do things depending on the amount of support it gets. For me, it's a way of registering opposition to the current government policies, that's all. If there was a demonstration I could go on I would do that instead or as well. The last time I went on a demo was in the 90s [poll tax], This crisis is the most serious political thing that has happened in my lifetime imo.
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Required to do things - pay it lip service. Like I said, it’s impotent, tedious and a waste of time. The government will be under a lot of pressure from various sources. But this won’t be of any significance at all, whatsoever, period. This petition is just to give you a little feeling of comfort that you’re doing something rather than feeling hopeless. It’s a comfort blanket, a soother; nothing more.
 
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