liz Truss ?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the NHS in terms of staff, the Consultants, Doctors, Support staff, aftercare all all brilliant. The problem, and it has been the problem for many years, through Tory and Labour Governments, is that it has been horrendously managed. They must have wasted billions by poor management. The new computer system (as it was) was a complete fuck up and cost so much money. I love the HS and its concept but you can't get away from the appalling mismanagement and wasting of funds.

I think Seasideone has a valid point, it's not a Tory/Labour thing it's far more complicated than that, but as usual on any political thread it turns into my parties bigger than your party thrash. It's quite funny and a bit pathetic at the same time.
 
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I know how it is funded. The US Pay circa 10k USD per person per year, Singapore is about 2.6k USD per person - so the costs are nothing like the USA.

The only time there was a shortage of beds that I have ever seen was at the hight of covid and they did not run out.

You can ague as much as you like, but if I want a doctors appointment tomorrow, see a specialist later in the day and get a scan with results on Monday - just as anyone else here I can without paying any extra - Try that in the NHS!!!

Yes its a mixture of Private and Public funded but it works and nobody goes without. Not sure if you realise either any public funding of the NHS starts with an individual or a company paying tax. Singapore does not collect as much tax as the UK per head, it allows the freedom to choose your level of care from the basic (which is far better than the NHS which is free) upto top level private care - the treatments do not change just the ward you might be in!!!!

Regarding the cost - it isn't that high as the previous posts show.

ps Profit isn't a bad word you know - if the servise are being delivered better at a fair cost.
You know how it is funded and yet implied that the Singapore system was a private system and therefore better, which it isnt in any way even according to the WPR, it is rated worse than UK overall. Your experience as a self proclaimed wealthy foreigner is likely going to be very different to the ordinary worker. Nobody goes without, maybe, but for subsidised specialist care the Sing Min of Health says the average waiting time is 28 days but the 90th percentile is anything up to 115 days. how do I know this, well I'm currently going through various health service research because we are about to start building a service model for a non-profit health system for a country that currently has very limited and very basic socialised care.

My own private medical insurance would allow me to access care whenever I want.

In the US the typical is more along the lines of 20K, and the majority of health plans even at that level of spending have severe restrictions because it is a fully profitised system, the people we had, had an annual premium upwards of 26k, my business partner for him and his two kids was around the 70-80K mark annually.

profit is a bad word when its in an industry where the only way to make profit is to either fuck over customers (health services and its associated industries ie insurance being the big one), or to neglect infrastructure (energy and most public transport and in many cases health).

i dont think anyone would say that the NHS is perfect - it isnt by a long way, but what you dont seem to understand, is that for the majority of people who have ordinary or even well paying jobs a health service that is profitised will not function for them.
 
She's a stooge, put in place to enable continued industrial scale asset stripping the country. Its brazen now, the rich needed someone dumb enough to carry it on. Bingo!
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the NHS in terms of staff, the Consultants, Doctors, Support staff, aftercare all all brilliant. The problem, and it has been the problem for many years, through Tory and Labour Governments, is that it has been horrendously managed. They must have wasted billions by poor management. The new computer system (as it was) was a complete fuck up and cost so much money. I love the HS and its concept but you can't get away from the appalling mismanagement and wasting of funds.

I think Seasideone has a valid point, it's not a Tory/Labour thing it's far more complicated than that, but as usual on any political thread it turns into my parties bigger than your party thrash. It's quite funny and a bit pathetic at the same time.
i would agree about the medical capability and the management of the NHS. when you have trust CEO's (administrators, lets be honest) earning 400K a year and they run a team of hundreds of administrators then there is an issue that is what needs addressing. However the actual medical service is becoming problematic, under Blair training was cut with the strategy of finding foreign medical practitioners, and British Nurses leave their training with an average of circa (i think from memory) 17 - 20k. Most will leave the profession because of the stress, long hours, low pay etc. that needs addressing as well. I think it was Cameron who was suggesting that university and college fees for nurses (and doctors for that matter) should be significantly increased. When you look at the political games that are played by all parties with regard to health there is a very good case for having health funding at arms length from government but then the privateers and the profiteers step in saying, "see private medical care" would be better, and there are other options.
 
You know how it is funded and yet implied that the Singapore system was a private system and therefore better, which it isnt in any way even according to the WPR, it is rated worse than UK overall. Your experience as a self proclaimed wealthy foreigner is likely going to be very different to the ordinary worker. Nobody goes without, maybe, but for subsidised specialist care the Sing Min of Health says the average waiting time is 28 days but the 90th percentile is anything up to 115 days. how do I know this, well I'm currently going through various health service research because we are about to start building a service model for a non-profit health system for a country that currently has very limited and very basic socialised care.

My own private medical insurance would allow me to access care whenever I want.

In the US the typical is more along the lines of 20K, and the majority of health plans even at that level of spending have severe restrictions because it is a fully profitised system, the people we had, had an annual premium upwards of 26k, my business partner for him and his two kids was around the 70-80K mark annually.

profit is a bad word when its in an industry where the only way to make profit is to either fuck over customers (health services and its associated industries ie insurance being the big one), or to neglect infrastructure (energy and most public transport and in many cases health).

i dont think anyone would say that the NHS is perfect - it isnt by a long way, but what you dont seem to understand, is that for the majority of people who have ordinary or even well paying jobs a health service that is profitised will not function for them.
Don't let history be rewritten by the Tories. Labour supported the NHS well and the Tories since 2010, haven't. Even so, I believe a root and branch review of the structure is needed. That review needs to be conducted under the command of a Labour Government.
 
You know how it is funded and yet implied that the Singapore system was a private system and therefore better, which it isnt in any way even according to the WPR, it is rated worse than UK overall. Your experience as a self proclaimed wealthy foreigner is likely going to be very different to the ordinary worker. Nobody goes without, maybe, but for subsidised specialist care the Sing Min of Health says the average waiting time is 28 days but the 90th percentile is anything up to 115 days. how do I know this, well I'm currently going through various health service research because we are about to start building a service model for a non-profit health system for a country that currently has very limited and very basic socialised care.

My own private medical insurance would allow me to access care whenever I want.

In the US the typical is more along the lines of 20K, and the majority of health plans even at that level of spending have severe restrictions because it is a fully profitised system, the people we had, had an annual premium upwards of 26k, my business partner for him and his two kids was around the 70-80K mark annually.

profit is a bad word when its in an industry where the only way to make profit is to either fuck over customers (health services and its associated industries ie insurance being the big one), or to neglect infrastructure (energy and most public transport and in many cases health).

i dont think anyone would say that the NHS is perfect - it isnt by a long way, but what you dont seem to understand, is that for the majority of people who have ordinary or even well paying jobs a health service that is profitised will not function for them.
Absolute rubbish about Singapore.

The system is a mixture of private and public with far better care than the shite NHS.

You read rubbish and believe it - where I have experience of it!

If the NHS is so much better than Singapore why is SEVEN MILLION people waiting for treatment, yet here it is instant?

You just ignore reality when it suits you!
 
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Absolute rubbish about Singapore.

The system is a mixture of private and public with far better care than the shite NHS.

You read rubbish and believe it - where I have experience of it!

If the NHS is so much better than Singapore why is SEVEN MILLION people waiting for treatment, yet here it is instant?

You just ignore reality when it suits you!
According to the sing govs own reporting it isn't instant. I'm going off actual data from the MoHS. Data from unbiased research groups is determining the ranking system I quoted.

Personal experience is often a poor indicator for wider understanding.

If you look through my posts in this thread you will see that I think the NHS is problematic at several levels but DATA not news sources or personal opinions drives my understanding.
 
According to the sing govs own reporting it isn't instant. I'm going off actual data from the MoHS. Data from unbiased research groups is determining the ranking system I quoted.

Personal experience is often a poor indicator for wider understanding.

If you look through my posts in this thread you will see that I think the NHS is problematic at several levels but DATA not news sources or personal opinions drives my understanding.
SEVEN MILLION waiting for treatment.
You can’t get an appointment with a gp easily
Dentists are like hens teeth!!!!!
13 weeks for a scAn result
I could go on….

Singapore
Appointment within minutes
Scans or tests same day of needed
Results within 24hrs

You are in dreamworld if you think the NHS works better than here.

Cost per head circa 60% of the NHS.

But feel free to carry on!
 
Don't let history be rewritten by the Tories. Labour supported the NHS well and the Tories since 2010, haven't. Even so, I believe a root and branch review of the structure is needed. That review needs to be conducted under the command of a Labour Government.
I think Blair made some strategic decisions that affected the NHS negatively, training and recruiting strategy being one of them but also brown's PPP developments and the off balance sheet accounting that he was so fond of will be a problem to address in about 15 years or so. I'm under no illusions about Tory administrations from Cameron onwards have been pushing for a wider privatisation of the NHS, the current crop are seriously endangering its fundamental existence. NHS reform needs a non political basis for its wider development, but that is my personal pie in the sky opinion
 
SEVEN MILLION waiting for treatment.
You can’t get an appointment with a gp easily
Dentists are like hens teeth!!!!!
13 weeks for a scAn result
I could go on….

Singapore
Appointment within minutes
Scans or tests same day of needed
Results within 24hrs

You are in dreamworld if you think the NHS works better than here.

Cost per head circa 60% of the NHS.

But feel free to carry on!
I will carry on because the DATA and empirical research points to the things I have said, whatever your personal experience is. I'll also add Singapore has a population of 5.5 million people, the UK is closer to 70 million. There is a fundamental difference in providing health services for countries of those two sizes.
 
I think Blair made some strategic decisions that affected the NHS negatively, training and recruiting strategy being one of them but also brown's PPP developments and the off balance sheet accounting that he was so fond of will be a problem to address in about 15 years or so. I'm under no illusions about Tory administrations from Cameron onwards have been pushing for a wider privatisation of the NHS, the current crop are seriously endangering its fundamental existence. NHS reform needs a non political basis for its wider development, but that is my personal pie in the sky opinion
Actually I agree about the PFI being a load of trouble down the line. At the time, Blair and Brown were committed to rebuilding public infrastructure without getting it in the neck from the Tory press. That meant keeping the costs off balance sheet.
 
I will carry on because the DATA and empirical research points to the things I have said, whatever your personal experience is. I'll also add Singapore has a population of 5.5 million people, the UK is closer to 70 million. There is a fundamental difference in providing health services for countries of those two sizes.
There is a difference in providing health care between the two destinations - and that is economies of scale which don’t seem to work when the NHS is involved.

Any chance you can provide multiple comparative data that says the NHS is better than the Singapore system?

…or should we ask SEVEN MILLION people in the UK what they think of not getting treatment - that’s 10% of the population??

WOW
 
There is a difference in providing health care between the two destinations - and that is economies of scale which don’t seem to work when the NHS is involved.

Any chance you can provide multiple comparative data that says the NHS is better than the Singapore system?

…or should we ask SEVEN MILLION people in the UK what they think of not getting treatment - that’s 10% of the population??

WOW
Come on One. it's not a fight to the death argument.
 
I know how it is funded. The US Pay circa 10k USD per person per year, Singapore is about 2.6k USD per person - so the costs are nothing like the USA.

The only time there was a shortage of beds that I have ever seen was at the hight of covid and they did not run out.

You can ague as much as you like, but if I want a doctors appointment tomorrow, see a specialist later in the day and get a scan with results on Monday - just as anyone else here I can without paying any extra - Try that in the NHS!!!

Yes its a mixture of Private and Public funded but it works and nobody goes without. Not sure if you realise either any public funding of the NHS starts with an individual or a company paying tax. Singapore does not collect as much tax as the UK per head, it allows the freedom to choose your level of care from the basic (which is far better than the NHS which is free) upto top level private care - the treatments do not change just the ward you might be in!!!!

Regarding the cost - it isn't that high as the previous posts show.

ps Profit isn't a bad word you know - if the servise are being delivered better at a fair cost.
If I want a doctors appointment today, I'll ring up at 8.30 and get one for later this morning. It all depends on your local service. Ours is excellent.

And I won't have to pay anything nor be means tested.
 
Absolute rubbish about Singapore.

The system is a mixture of private and public with far better care than the shite NHS.

You read rubbish and believe it - where I have experience of it!

If the NHS is so much better than Singapore why is SEVEN MILLION people waiting for treatment, yet here it is instant?

You just ignore reality when it suits you!
The answer is a Tory Government who wont take any responsibility for anything. Never their fault yet we lurch from one crisis to another on their watch.

It's almost as if they are completely incompetent or deliberately ** it up to make privatisation an attractive proposition...
 
If I want a doctors appointment today, I'll ring up at 8.30 and get one for later this morning. It all depends on your local service. Ours is excellent.

And I won't have to pay anything nor be means tested.
You are not means tested to get an appointment - and you are very lucky in the current state of the NHS.

How long before you see a specialist and get scan results though?
 
The answer is a Tory Government who wont take any responsibility for anything. Never their fault yet we lurch from one crisis to another on their watch.

It's almost as if they are completely incompetent or deliberately ** it up to make privatisation an attractive proposition...
It’s not the Tories or Labour in reality it’s the mismanagement and financial waste of the NHS over many many years.
 
Moving back to the subject title, did anyone see the video of the recent weekly meeting between King Charles and Truss? As she bowed / curtsied and simpered her way into his office he said “You’re back! Dear oh dear”.
 
Moving back to the subject title, did anyone see the video of the recent weekly meeting between King Charles and Truss? As she bowed / curtsied and simpered her way into his office he said “You’re back! Dear oh dear”.
King Sausage Fingers hating the job already. Love it
 
But you will be means tested for treatment. Why should that be seen as a good thing?
You are not means tested for treatment.

You either have insurance if you earn a certain amount, your company provides it or the government pay if you cannot afford it.
 
Means testing, checking insurance cover, etc etc.
If it’s an emergency it happens after the fact, no treatment is ever withheld.

As everyone has a digital ID it’s a very simple process - as simple as giving your name and dob - you just add your digital ID number or your insurer name and policy number.
The reality is everyone in the UK pays for healthcare at some point through Tax, NI, VAT or any other tax you can think of.

The health service is just funded differently here through compulsory insurance, employer paid insurance or the government paying when that’s not available.

The other reality is that it works and it works very very well.
 
Back on topic, it looks like Truss and Kwarteng's tenancy is about to come to an end. Next week will probably see the pair of them gone. 7 weeks, what an embarrassment! They are both so arrogant and both as thick as mince!
 
Back on topic, it looks like Truss and Kwarteng's tenancy is about to come to an end. Next week will probably see the pair of them gone. 7 weeks, what an embarrassment! They are both so arrogant and both as thick as mince!
Kwarteng has been recalled early from his US trip.
Chris Mason has just said on the BBC news this morning it could be as early as this weekend.
 
There is a difference in providing health care between the two destinations - and that is economies of scale which don’t seem to work when the NHS is involved.

Any chance you can provide multiple comparative data that says the NHS is better than the Singapore system?

…or should we ask SEVEN MILLION people in the UK what they think of not getting treatment - that’s 10% of the population??

WOW
Comparative data from the world population review. take a look.

The NHS is not perfect, its a failing institution, 35 years ago it was the best health service in the world and it had numerous flaws then. A decade and a half of genuine attacks by a conservative government and in my opinion bad strategies by the previous administration have put the NHS under severe, possibly existential pressure. 7 million people waiting for treatment is an absolute scandal, but privatisation is not the answer.

10% of the UK population are on waiting lists, 10% of the US population (the only industrialised nation without a public health system and a largely profitised system) and another 10% or so who only have very limited coverage, and Meds are generally factors more expensive than they are in the UK. The social implications of an American style profitised system (which is now about 10% of US GDP) are massive, the latest academic papers are connecting lower start-ups and innovation with the private health care system, because those in jobs with good health care plans which is where most people have their health care plans cannot risk their health plans to start new businesses. My argument isn't that Singapore is better or worse (but the data from a respected international comparative shows it to be marginally worse) its that a privatised system for health will not work, specifically because privatisation leads to profitisation.

There are factions within the Tories who genuinely want a fully privatised US style health system (and Farage has been caught promoting it on speaking tours in the US) and it has to be resisted, and if they don't necessarily agree with it themselves they are being backed by and doing the bidding of think tanks that are pushing that agenda often on behalf of US drug and health companies. it was well reported that one condition of trade deals post Brexit with the US was removal of price caps for the drugs market in the UK. That is what every single British person needs to be concerned about. it wont just be that 10% are on waiting lists it will be that 10, 15, 20% or more will not have access to health care or will have very limited access.

I don't live there anymore and have private medical insurance, but i still have family that are reliant on the NHS, so I do not want to see it fail and it is heading that way.

Something else you raise which is interesting, is the economies of scale which everyone knows about but most don't understand, economies of scale hit a peak at which point it bottoms out and diseconomies arise. There is a phenomenon called the inefficiencies or diseconomies of scale, which is very apparent in very large scale institutions, governments, health services, education systems, energy and utility systems and major corporations. The size of the NHS is one of its problems, but the attempts to break it up into smaller units such as the trust model have simply failed.
 
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Back on topic, it looks like Truss and Kwarteng's tenancy is about to come to an end. Next week will probably see the pair of them gone. 7 weeks, what an embarrassment! They are both so arrogant and both as thick as mince!
I doubt that very much, though Kwarteng's grip on No. 11 is slipping.
 
Kwarteng has been recalled early from his US trip.
Chris Mason has just said on the BBC news this morning it could be as early as this weekend.
You do wonder though just who will be parachuted in if that was to happen, I think there is a strong likelyhood that Boris might be welcomed back by the faithful, on the basis that he hadn't quite caused an existential economic crisis and he's an acceptable puppet for the nut jobs in the ERG and the like.
 
Comparative data from the world population review. take a look.

The NHS is not perfect, its a failing institution, 35 years ago it was the best health service in the world and it had numerous flaws then. A decade and a half of genuine attacks by a conservative government and in my opinion bad strategies by the previous administration have put the NHS under severe, possibly existential pressure. 7 million people waiting for treatment is an absolute scandal, but privatisation is not the answer.

10% of the UK population are on waiting lists, 10% of the US population (the only industrialised nation without a public health system and a largely profitised system) and another 10% or so who only have very limited coverage, and Meds are generally factors more expensive than they are in the UK. The social implications of an American style profitised system (which is now about 10% of US GDP) are massive, the latest academic papers are connecting lower start-ups and innovation with the private health care system, because those in jobs with good health care plans which is where most people have their health care plans cannot risk their health plans to start new businesses. My argument isn't that Singapore is better or worse (but the data from a respected international comparative shows it to be worse) its that a privatised system for health will not work, specifically because privatisation leads to profitisation.

There are factions within the Tories who genuinely want a fully privatised US style health system and it has to be resisted, and if they don't necessarily agree with it themselves they are being backed by and doing the bidding of think tanks that are pushing that agenda often on behalf of US drug companies. it was well reported that one condition of trade deals post Brexit with the US was removal of price caps for the drugs market in the UK. That is what every single British person needs to be concerned about.

I don't live there anymore and have private medical insurance, but i still have family that are reliant on the NHS, so I do not want to see it fail and it is heading that way.
Nobody wants to see the NHS fail and I don’t want a US system - I wish they would copy here.

You or I can quote any report we like but the facts remain….

Getting an appointment in the UK is pretty much impossible for many brits, here it’s minutes.

Seeing a specialist can take months or years, where as here you could see today.

Waiting months for scan results where here you get them in 24hrs and the scan is pretty much on the day you request it.

Follow up and treatment is instant here, unlike the UK.

That’s why it’s a better health service than the NHS and it simply works.

It’s a mixture of private and public which is how the NHS should be, but the NHS management is at fault for a lot of the issues and waste.

I don’t want one mega provider as it is too big to manage and to easy for it to hide the waste, which is why I want the NHS broken up.

I think the private system here is very different to the UK and maybe not what you are used to.

A hospital here may have seven or eight small businesses run by an individual specialist doctor that all offer the same service.

This keeps prices down as there is competition and choice.

The hospital itself provides the facilities and the individual doctors book time for patients in theatres, radiology and wards etc.

The hospital services price are also in competition with other hospital service providers.

Of course some of these providers grow such as Raffles medical but generally you have a lot of choice.

The above is why I think we should move towards how Singapore delivers health including how it’s funded.

In addendum…

You may have private cover in the UK, but they will not do many things that are complicated and if it goes wrong they simply dump you on the NHS - which in itself isn’t overly fair!!
 
You do wonder though just who will be parachuted in if that was to happen, I think there is a strong likelyhood that Boris might be welcomed back by the faithful, on the basis that he hadn't quite caused an existential economic crisis and he's an acceptable puppet for the nut jobs in the ERG and the like.
Mordaunt / Sunak 'dream' team being talked up this morning
Trouble is that Sunak has a lot of enemies as he is seen as the one who knifed Johnson in the back. So more in-fighting if we get these two but they would be more popular than Truss
 
Mordaunt / Sunak 'dream' team being talked up this morning
Trouble is that Sunak has a lot of enemies as he is seen as the one who knifed Johnson in the back. So more in-fighting if we get these two but they would be more popular than Truss
Corbyn was more popular than Truss and that’s saying something!
 
Nobody wants to see the NHS fail and I don’t want a US system - I wish they would copy here.

You or I can quote any report we like but the facts remain….

Getting an appointment in the UK is pretty much impossible for many brits, here it’s minutes.

Seeing a specialist can take months or years, where as here you could see today.

Waiting months for scan results where here you get them in 24hrs and the scan is pretty much on the day you request it.

Follow up and treatment is instant here, unlike the UK.

That’s why it’s a better health service than the NHS and it simply works.

It’s a mixture of private and public which is how the NHS should be, but the NHS management is at fault for a lot of the issues and waste.

I don’t want one mega provider as it is too big to manage and to easy for it to hide the waste, which is why I want the NHS broken up.

I think the private system here is very different to the UK and maybe not what you are used to.

A hospital here may have seven or eight small businesses run by an individual specialist doctor that all offer the same service.

This keeps prices down as there is competition and choice.

The hospital itself provides the facilities and the individual doctors book time for patients in theatres, radiology and wards etc.

The hospital services price are also in competition with other hospital service providers.

Of course some of these providers grow such as Raffles medical but generally you have a lot of choice.

The above is why I think we should move towards how Singapore delivers health including how it’s funded.

In addendum…

You may have private cover in the UK, but they will not do many things that are complicated and if it goes wrong they simply dump you on the NHS - which in itself isn’t overly fair!!
taking your personal opinion which is what it is, I'm not there. I think copying a system designed for 5 million or so people for a system which has to deal with 70 million isn't viable, it might be though that aspects of it might work. Ive had this argument with ministers and civil servants in a couple of countries. We built a public service system (not health) for a country of just under 5 million and another country of just under 45 million approached us to do the same work but it was impossible, because the factors of population despite them being in similar economic situations and maturity just don't stack up.

In my opinion the NHS needs disconnecting from politicised government (local and National) in some way while still maintaining it in public hands, how that is achieved is about as easy as mining cheese on the moon.
 
Moving back to the subject title, did anyone see the video of the recent weekly meeting between King Charles and Truss? As she bowed / curtsied and simpered her way into his office he said “You’re back! Dear oh dear”.

I wonder who leaked that particular bit of footage?
 
taking your personal opinion which is what it is, I'm not there. I think copying a system designed for 5 million or so people for a system which has to deal with 70 million isn't viable, it might be though that aspects of it might work. Ive had this argument with ministers and civil servants in a couple of countries. We built a public service system (not health) for a country of just under 5 million and another country of just under 45 million approached us to do the same work but it was impossible, because the factors of population despite them being in similar economic situations and maturity just don't stack up.

In my opinion the NHS needs disconnecting from politicised government (local and National) in some way while still maintaining it in public hands, how that is achieved is about as easy as mining cheese on the moon.
These are not opinions these are facts….

Getting an appointment in the UK is pretty much impossible for many brits, here it’s minutes.

Seeing a specialist can take months or years, where as here you could see today.

Waiting months for scan results where here you get them in 24hrs and the scan is pretty much on the day you request it.

Follow up and treatment is instant here, unlike the UK.


Although I wouldn’t do it for 70m people in the UK, I would do it 14 times for 5m people over time after testing it with one.

You could even call them Health Authorities or Trusts 😉
 
These are not opinions these are facts….

Getting an appointment in the UK is pretty much impossible for many brits, here it’s minutes.

Seeing a specialist can take months or years, where as here you could see today.

Waiting months for scan results where here you get them in 24hrs and the scan is pretty much on the day you request it.

Follow up and treatment is instant here, unlike the UK.


Although I wouldn’t do it for 70m people in the UK, I would do it 14 times for 5m people over time after testing it with one.

You could even call them Health Authorities or Trusts 😉

It's not 'pretty much impossible to get an appointment' - that is nonsense.
You seem to rely a lot on anecdotal evidence so this might appeal to you more than all of the statistical evidence that rebuts your arguments.
Personally;
I have a minor non urgent thing that I visited my GP about a few weeks ago. I had to wait a couple of weeks for the face to face appointment. An appointment was made within a month at a clinic and it was scanned. Now I have another appointment made within a month to get it removed at the GPs surgery. This is all for a non urgent intervention.
My girlfriend had a scare that could have been cancer and was booked in for an investigation within a few days on a Sunday at the local hospital. Initial results were assessed on the same day by the surgeon who carried out the procedure. Follow up appointments are within days.

There are lots of areas of the NHS that can be improved of course but for most of us it works as it should most of the time. Please don't believe all of the propaganda from people who may have an ulterior motive in privatisation of the service.
 
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It's not pretty much impossible to get an appointment - that is nonsense.
You seem to rely a lot on anecdotal evidence so this might appeal to you more than all of the statistical evidence that rebuts your arguments.
Personally;
I have a minor non urgent thing that I visited my GP about a few weeks ago. I had to wait a couple of weeks for the face to face appointment. An appointment was made within a month at a clinic and it was scanned. Now I have another appointment made within a month to get it removed at the GPs surgery. This is all for a non urgent intervention.
My girlfriend had a scare that could have been cancer and was booked in for an investigation within a few days on a Sunday at the local hospital. Initial results were assessed on the same day by the surgeon who carried out the procedure. Follow up appointments are within days.

There are lots of areas of the NHS that can be improved of course but for most of us it works as it should most of the time. Please don't believe all of the propaganda from people who may have an ulterior motive in privatisation of the service.
I am using my recent experiences with the NHS with other family members.

Where a member of the family is waiting months for something quite serious.

Still pretty slow if you ask me.

The fact they have seven million people waiting to start treatment says it all.
 
I am using my recent experiences with the NHS with other family members.

Where a member of the family is waiting months for something quite serious.

Still pretty slow if you ask me.

The fact they have seven million people waiting to start treatment says it all.

You're talking to a brick wall, mate, good luck. 👍
 
I booked a doctors appointment in London last Thursday, had a telephone conversation then went in to see them at 5pm. Went straight from there for a chest x-ray which was done by 6:30pm. Got the results the following day and a course of treatment which I picked up from the pharmacy the same day.

Not too shabby.
 
I booked a doctors appointment in London last Thursday, had a telephone conversation then went in to see them at 5pm. Went straight from there for a chest x-ray which was done by 6:30pm. Got the results the following day and a course of treatment which I picked up from the pharmacy the same day.

Not too shabby.

Know a guy, actually the son of a guy, had a grumbling appendix for a couple of weeks, tried to see his GP but couldn't, tried to get medical help from anywhere but failed, needed antibiotics but couldn't get them, ended up with emergency surgery and about an hour away from death, a problem that could've been solved with a few quid's worth of drugs ended up with an operation and a multi-night stay in hospital at the cost of god knows what.

Last few weeks, BTW, for the avoidance of doubt.
 
Know a guy, actually the son of a guy, had a grumbling appendix for a couple of weeks, tried to see his GP but couldn't, tried to get medical help from anywhere but failed, needed antibiotics but couldn't get them, ended up with emergency surgery and about an hour away from death, a problem that could've been solved with a few quid's worth of drugs ended up with an operation and a multi-night stay in hospital at the cost of god knows what.

Last few weeks, BTW, for the avoidance of doubt.
I think somebody (not you) is talking a bit of bollocks to be honest, just my opinion based on my experiences. I have had it where I couldn't get in at my doctors, I rang 111 and had an appointment at the hospital on the same day. I have had an eye test where the optician referred me to the hospital and I went on the same day.

I prefer to go off my own experiences and I think that's fair enough.
 
Know a guy, actually the son of a guy, had a grumbling appendix for a couple of weeks, tried to see his GP but couldn't, tried to get medical help from anywhere but failed, needed antibiotics but couldn't get them, ended up with emergency surgery and about an hour away from death, a problem that could've been solved with a few quid's worth of drugs ended up with an operation and a multi-night stay in hospital at the cost of god knows what.

Last few weeks, BTW, for the avoidance of doubt.
Did this person go to A & E?
I have never heard of anyone being turned away from A & E, but obviously waiting times are longer than they should be.
 
I think somebody (not you) is talking a bit of bollocks to be honest, just my opinion based on my experiences. I have had it where I couldn't get in at my doctors, I rang 111 and had an appointment at the hospital on the same day. I have had an eye test where the optician referred me to the hospital and I went on the same day.

I prefer to go off my own experiences and I think that's fair enough.

The problems with accessing GP services I think are reasonably well attested, and I can't see what he would've gained by lying to me, but I'm happy that your experience was positive, I'm just not sure that they're representative.
 
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