Compare the Clarity

[catinstalbans]

I have just listened to Nicola Sturgeon explaining in her news conference the need to reimpose lockdown in Aberdeen. Absolutely clear in her explanation-with a wide range of guidance to people in different situations e.g. visitors currently in the city.I
Not sneaking out the imposition on a tweet late at night like Matt Hancock with only one bit of guidance about not meeting other households indoors but taking time to chuck blame about.

 

[seasideone]

How is she doing with her investigation in mis leading the Scottish parliament?

 

[John Craven's Newsround]

She is very clear in her hatred of the English which surely qualifies as racism?

 

[911_Kirky]

I’d move to Scotland Cat..... surely it would be far less stressful for you

 

[tangerinenotorange]

Or to put it another way

Despite the £3.7 billion in extra funding from the UK Government to help Scotland weather the pandemic, only 49% of Scots think the UK Government has handled the crisis well. Yet claims that Sturgeon is having a “good pandemic” are as inaccurate as they are inappropriate. According to the former Head of Analysis for the ONS, Scotland’s coronavirus death rate is one of the worst in the world. The country is drastically behind the rest of the UK on testing: as of 26th May, only 4% of the 117,013 tests carried out across the UK were in Scotland.

It’s a similar story on contact tracing. Sturgeon promised to recruit 2,000 tracers by the end of May, but by June hadn’t hired a single additional person, instead reallocating around 660 existing NHS staff. It is now emerging that the First Minister is U-turning on this commitment completely. Meanwhile in England, there are undoubtedly some teething issues, but the Government has managed to sign up 25,000 contact tracers.

Scotland also has a huge problem with care homes. Last week, over half of all Covid-19 deaths in the country took place in care facilities. The number of hospital patients discharged before being tested was three times higher than the Scottish Government previously claimed, raising serious questions over their handling of this crisis. Without appropriate testing in place, the problems will only escalate: carers in Scotland are forced to go into residential facilities and the community not knowing whether they’re taking the disease with them. That’s heartbreaking for them, and the vulnerable people they treat and assist.

Meanwhile, the Leader of the SNP in Westminster refuses to acknowledge the failings of his party, preferring instead to question the Prime Minister about the English NHS. Shamefully, it has now emerged that the Scottish Government knew in February that cases of coronavirus were present in Edinburgh. Not only did they not inform the public, but they failed to contact or test those potentially exposed to this deadly virus.

As well as mishandling the pandemic, the SNP are also jeopardising the recovery. Small and medium sized businesses are having to take the Scottish Government to court over the lack of support being offered to help them through this period. The UK Government’s Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, meanwhile, has saved 374,000 Scottish jobs. But don’t be surprised when the First Minister turns round in six months and blames Scotland’s rising unemployment and slower growth on London.

Is this report true? It sounds horrific to me.

 

[Scarborian]

Why stop at putting Aberdeen into lockdown. Rebuild Hadrians Wall and give the English building trade a boost.

 

[Tangerinemoss]

Last week, over half of all Covid-19 deaths in the country took place in care facilities

7 deaths of which 2 in care homes, don't think that's half. 295 latest week reported in England /Wales, with 10 times the population.

Well done

The only bit of your post I think is undoubtedly true is the Covid related to the Nike meeting in Edinburgh.

And I don't like the SNP and voted against Independence.

 

[Seasider1887]

Why stop at putting Aberdeen into lockdown. Rebuild Hadrians Wall and give the English building trade a boost.

Can you say that

 

[tangerinenotorange]

7 deaths of which 2 in care homes, don't think that's half. 295 latest week reported in England /Wales, with 10 times the population.
Well done The only bit of your post I think is undoubtedly true is the Covid related to the Nike meeting in Edinburgh.
And I don't like the SNP and voted against Independence.

Why are you saying well done moss, It's not my report. That's why I'm asking if it's true. This was the position in June so your 7 and 2 doesn't help to clarify.

 

[Tangerinemoss]

It was you who said it was last week, read your own post. It is simply not true. Scotland's death rate is high but lower than England, there was a thread on this last week. Scotland screwed up its care homes exactly the same as England. All the financial claims above have had no publicity up here, I have not heard any business owners, and I know a fair few, complaining about lack of grants / support.

Recovery is going similarly up here in the tourist areas as to the rest of the UK, and city based colleagues actually did better on first reopening.

Contact tracing is an interesting one. Scotland opted to use its existing public health network, expanded, rather than pay a Tory crony for a new system. Specifically relating to Aberdeen, it seems to be working well. How's the English system working out, woeful was the word used by the Commons committee?

 

[tangerinenotorange]

It was you who said it was last week, read your own post. It is simply not true. Scotland's death rate is high but lower than England, there was a thread on this last week. Scotland screwed up its care homes exactly the same as England. All the financial claims above have had no publicity up here, I have not heard any business owners, and I know a fair few, complaining about lack of grants / support.

Recovery is going similarly up here in the tourist areas as to the rest of the UK, and city based colleagues actually did better on first reopening.
Contact tracing is an interesting one. Scotland opted to use its existing public health network, expanded, rather than pay a Tory crony for a new system. Specifically relating to Aberdeen, it seems to be working well. How's the English system working out, woeful was the word used by the Commons committee?

Just to clarify, the report was in June and it refers to 'last week'. If that was the position in June it's a fairly damning report of things north of the border. The OP tells us how well things are being handled there but from the report things seem just as bad under the SNP.

 

[Wizaard]

Or to put it another way

Despite the £3.7 billion in extra funding from the UK Government to help Scotland weather the pandemic, only 49% of Scots think the UK Government has handled the crisis well. Yet claims that Sturgeon is having a “good pandemic” are as inaccurate as they are inappropriate. According to the former Head of Analysis for the ONS, Scotland’s coronavirus death rate is one of the worst in the world. The country is drastically behind the rest of the UK on testing: as of 26th May, only 4% of the 117,013 tests carried out across the UK were in Scotland.

It’s a similar story on contact tracing. Sturgeon promised to recruit 2,000 tracers by the end of May, but by June hadn’t hired a single additional person, instead reallocating around 660 existing NHS staff. It is now emerging that the First Minister is U-turning on this commitment completely. Meanwhile in England, there are undoubtedly some teething issues, but the Government has managed to sign up 25,000 contact tracers.

Scotland also has a huge problem with care homes. Last week, over half of all Covid-19 deaths in the country took place in care facilities. The number of hospital patients discharged before being tested was three times higher than the Scottish Government previously claimed, raising serious questions over their handling of this crisis. Without appropriate testing in place, the problems will only escalate: carers in Scotland are forced to go into residential facilities and the community not knowing whether they’re taking the disease with them. That’s heartbreaking for them, and the vulnerable people they treat and assist.

Meanwhile, the Leader of the SNP in Westminster refuses to acknowledge the failings of his party, preferring instead to question the Prime Minister about the English NHS. Shamefully, it has now emerged that the Scottish Government knew in February that cases of coronavirus were present in Edinburgh. Not only did they not inform the public, but they failed to contact or test those potentially exposed to this deadly virus.

As well as mishandling the pandemic, the SNP are also jeopardising the recovery. Small and medium sized businesses are having to take the Scottish Government to court over the lack of support being offered to help them through this period. The UK Government’s Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, meanwhile, has saved 374,000 Scottish jobs. But don’t be surprised when the First Minister turns round in six months and blames Scotland’s rising unemployment and slower growth on London.

Is this report true? It sounds horrific to me.

4% of tests in Scotland. To be fair only 5 million live there.

 

[catinstalbans]

Just to clarify, the report was in June and it refers to 'last week'. If that was the position in June it's a fairly damning report of things north of the border. The OP tells us how well things are being handled there but from the report things seem just as bad under the SNP.

No I said the message was being presented in a clear and understandable way rather than blame mongering tweets sneaked out late at night. I made no comment on overall effectiveness at all so please stop telling lies.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

..

It was you who said it was last week, read your own post. It is simply not true. Scotland's death rate is high but lower than England, there was a thread on this last week. Scotland screwed up its care homes exactly the same as England. All the financial claims above have had no publicity up here, I have not heard any business owners, and I know a fair few, complaining about lack of grants / support.

Recovery is going similarly up here in the tourist areas as to the rest of the UK, and city based colleagues actually did better on first reopening.

Contact tracing is an interesting one. Scotland opted to use its existing public health network, expanded, rather than pay a Tory crony for a new system. Specifically relating to Aberdeen, it seems to be working well. How's the English system working out, woeful was the word used by the Commons committee?

Deaths in England = 745 per Million
Deaths in Scotland = 883 per Million
Deaths in Wales = 499 per Million

Population Density
England = 275/sq km
Scotland = 65/ sq km
Wales = 151/sq km

I'd say that's a pretty damning indictment of the Scottish situation....

 

[Old_Laytonian]

..

Deaths in England = 745 per Million
Deaths in Scotland = 883 per Million
Deaths in Wales = 499 per Million

Population Density
England = 275/sq km
Scotland = 65/ sq km
Wales = 151/sq km

I'd say that's a pretty damning indictment of the Scottish situation....

That’s clarity

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Or to put it another way

Despite the £3.7 billion in extra funding from the UK Government to help Scotland weather the pandemic, only 49% of Scots think the UK Government has handled the crisis well. Yet claims that Sturgeon is having a “good pandemic” are as inaccurate as they are inappropriate. According to the former Head of Analysis for the ONS, Scotland’s coronavirus death rate is one of the worst in the world. The country is drastically behind the rest of the UK on testing: as of 26th May, only 4% of the 117,013 tests carried out across the UK were in Scotland.

It’s a similar story on contact tracing. Sturgeon promised to recruit 2,000 tracers by the end of May, but by June hadn’t hired a single additional person, instead reallocating around 660 existing NHS staff. It is now emerging that the First Minister is U-turning on this commitment completely. Meanwhile in England, there are undoubtedly some teething issues, but the Government has managed to sign up 25,000 contact tracers.

Scotland also has a huge problem with care homes. Last week, over half of all Covid-19 deaths in the country took place in care facilities. The number of hospital patients discharged before being tested was three times higher than the Scottish Government previously claimed, raising serious questions over their handling of this crisis. Without appropriate testing in place, the problems will only escalate: carers in Scotland are forced to go into residential facilities and the community not knowing whether they’re taking the disease with them. That’s heartbreaking for them, and the vulnerable people they treat and assist.

Meanwhile, the Leader of the SNP in Westminster refuses to acknowledge the failings of his party, preferring instead to question the Prime Minister about the English NHS. Shamefully, it has now emerged that the Scottish Government knew in February that cases of coronavirus were present in Edinburgh. Not only did they not inform the public, but they failed to contact or test those potentially exposed to this deadly virus.

As well as mishandling the pandemic, the SNP are also jeopardising the recovery. Small and medium sized businesses are having to take the Scottish Government to court over the lack of support being offered to help them through this period. The UK Government’s Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, meanwhile, has saved 374,000 Scottish jobs. But don’t be surprised when the First Minister turns round in six months and blames Scotland’s rising unemployment and slower growth on London.

Is this report true? It sounds horrific to me.

TNO, you put a lot of detail into your posts and, I know you're reluctant to divulge it but what is your source for all of this info?

 

[tangerinenotorange]

I have just listened to Nicola Sturgeon explaining in her news conference the need to reimpose lockdown in Aberdeen. Absolutely clear in her explanation-with a wide range of guidance to people in different situations e.g. visitors currently in the city.I
Not sneaking out the imposition on a tweet late at night like Matt Hancock with only one bit of guidance about not meeting other households indoors but taking time to chuck blame about.

I said the message was being presented in a clear and understandable way rather than blame mongering tweets sneaked out late at night. I made no comment on overall effectiveness at all so please stop telling lies.

I think it's quite clear that you are having yet another dig at the government by critically comparing its guidance to that of the Scottish First Minister. You regularly mention how many additional deaths Boris and his chums are responsible for. I'm not an expert on Scotland's handling of the virus, but the report cited seems to show that Scotland's performance in the pandemic is no better than the rest of the UK. In fact, according to BFCx3 the death rate is higher.

 

[bollieboy]

..

Deaths in England = 745 per Million
Deaths in Scotland = 883 per Million
Deaths in Wales = 499 per Million

Population Density
England = 275/sq km
Scotland = 65/ sq km
Wales = 151/sq km

I'd say that's a pretty damning indictment of the Scottish situation....

Where's the source for that data ?

 

[Bristol_Avenue]

4% of tests in Scotland. To be fair only 5 million live there.

To be fair a lot more than 4% of the UK population live in Scotland.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Where's the source for that data ?

The source is the published figures divided by the official population

 

[bollieboy]

The source is the published figures divided by the official population

English deaths = 41749, population = 56.287m - deaths per million = 741.7
Scottish deaths = 2491, population = 5.463m - deaths per million = 456.0

Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the UK

GOV.UK Coronavirus dashboard

coronavirus.data.gov.uk

Population estimates for the UK, England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland - Office for National Statistics

National and subnational mid-year population estimates for the UK and its constituent countries by administrative area, age and sex.

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

English deaths = 41749, population = 56.287m - deaths per million = 741.7
Scottish deaths = 2491, population = 5.463m - deaths per million = 456.0

Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the UK

GOV.UK Coronavirus dashboard

coronavirus.data.gov.uk

Population estimates for the UK, England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland - Office for National Statistics

National and subnational mid-year population estimates for the UK and its constituent countries by administrative area, age and sex.

www.ons.gov.uk

Deaths recorded in Scotland relating to Covid 19 are well over 4000

That said, the official Numbers for England & Wales are also up (although in the case of England the Deaths have been overstated)

EDIT: Best comparative figures I can find from ONS Data are

England = 48,445 (861/pm)
Scotland = 4,201 (769/pm)
Wales = 2,495 (796/pm)

 

[Archibald Knox]

It’s just that Sturgeon appears to be more “in control” than the blustering, vague Johnson due to her tightly-wrapped, harsh presentational style. Appearing to be “decisive” etc. But we don’t really know the impact of that on the ground, in the hospitals and care homes. I think Sturgeon and Johnson are as bad as each other in managing their CV crises

 

[Lost Seasider]

It’s just that Sturgeon appears to be more “in control” than the blustering, vague Johnson due to her tightly-wrapped, harsh presentational style. Appearing to be “decisive” etc. But we don’t really know the impact of that on the ground, in the hospitals and care homes.

How about this for a counterpoint to the OP's post.

The Scottish decision was clearly made the day before but Sturgeon thought that her press conference was more important than warning people about the growing threat from a killer disease and so she delayed the announcement by a crucial 12 - 18 hours, how many more people were infected and died as a result we'll never know.

The OP will find something to complain about no matter what, had Mr Hancock not tweeted his decision at 10.00 pm and instead waited another 12 hours for a press conference the above is almost certainly what the OP would be writing instead.

 

[catinstalbans]

How about this for a counterpoint to the OP's post.

The Scottish decision was clearly made the day before but Sturgeon thought that her press conference was more important than warning people about the growing threat from a killer disease and so she delayed the announcement by a crucial 12 - 18 hours, how many more people were infected and died as a result we'll never know.

The OP will find something to complain about no matter what, had Mr Hancock not tweeted his decision at 10.00 pm and instead waited another 12 hours for a press conference the above is almost certainly what the OP would be writing instead.

Funny that you are concerned about a 12 hour delay but not concerned by the week long gap between the scientists
recommending lockdown on March 16 and Boris Johnson waiting until the 23 March. This is estimated to have cost up to 20,000 deaths considering the rate at which the disease was spreading through the population at the time. As it happens the 12 hour delay you claim is wrong as the meeting took place on the morning of the press conference.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) update: First Minister's speech 5 August 2020

Statement given by the First Minister Nicola Sturgeon at the media briefing in St Andrew's House, Edinburgh on Wednesday 5 August.

www.gov.scot

An acknowledgement of your error should be made.

 

[Lost Seasider]

Funny that you are concerned about a 12 hour delay but not concerned by the week long gap between the scientists
recommending lockdown on March 16 and Boris Johnson waiting until the 23 March.

Sage minutes, 16 March

1. On the basis of accumulating data, including on NHS critical care capacity, the advice from SAGE has changed regarding the speed of implementation of additional interventions.

2. SAGE advises that there is clear evidence to support additional social distancing measures be introduced as soon as possible.

4. SAGE will further review at its next meeting whether, in the light of new data, school closures may also be required to prevent NHS capacity being exceeded.

Nothing about lockdown in there, schools are remaining open so in fact they are explicitly excluding lockdown at this point.

So what do they mean by "additional social distancing"?

Sage minutes, 10 March

32. A summary of triggers and timings for the 3 interventions under consideration isset out in the table below.

Measure and/or combination of measures	Suggested Trigger Point	Estimated time of occurrence
(1) Home Isolation of symptomatic cases	ICU cases tracking and other surveillance data, with a presumption that we have reached 100 ICU cases (cumulative)	Within the next 10 days
(2) Whole Household isolation	Based on cumulative ICU cases tracking and other surveillance data Actual trigger point: somewhere between 100 and 300 ICU cases (cumulative)	1-3 weeks after (1)
(3) Social distancing for 70+ and vulnerable groups	Cumulative ICU cases and other surveillance data Somewhere between 100 and 300 ICU cases (cumulative)	1-3 weeks after (1)

And the actual government response:

16 March
Prime Minister Boris Johnson advises everyone in the UK against "non-essential" travel and contact with others, to curb coronavirus, as well as to work from home if possible and avoid visiting social venues such as pubs, clubs or theatres. Pregnant women, people over the age of 70 and those with certain health conditions are urged to consider the advice "particularly important", and will be asked to self-isolate within days.[65] The Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport states "it is advised that large gatherings should not take place"

So on the same day that they are advised to introduce additional measures they've gone far beyond anything that was being suggested 6 days ago and you think this is a slow response.

In fact, if you look at the Sage minutes, 23 March, there is nothing at all in there about further measures and "lockdown" was the government going even further than Sage recommended without waiting for further scientific evidence to become available.

This is estimated to have cost up to 20,000 deaths considering the rate at which the disease was spreading through the population at the time.

Based on a throw away comment by Neil Ferguson that is highly debatable once you consider the effect of the social distancing measures that were in place and the likely R rate both before and after lockdown.

And note that Prof. Ferguson was not recommending "lockdown" at the time.

As it happens the 12 hour delay you claim is wrong as the meeting took place on the morning of the press conference.

The information would have been available the day before, the meeting could easily have taken place 12-18 hours earlier and if it had been the UK government likely would have.

An acknowledgement of your error should be made.

I fail to spot an error on my part, would you like to acknowledge your error on the timing of lockdown?

 

[catinstalbans]

So the meeting actually took place that morning but that is not good enough for your bias. How do you know the meeting could easily have taken place earlier. What is your evidence?
Are you calling the Chief Scientific Officer a liar? I know Boris Johnson lies as a matter of course but really!

Coronavirus: SAGE urged government to lockdown a week earlier, UK's chief scientific adviser says

"There will be decisions made that will turn out not to be the right decision at the time," Sir Patrick Vallance says.

news.sky.com

 

[Leither]

In Scotland 6 people died of Covid in the month of July . . . the figure in England was 2230.

I think that tells the story.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

In Scotland 6 people died of Covid in the month of July . . . the figure in England was 2230.

I think that tells the story.

It certainly does tell a story... The PHE method of recording CV19 deaths is totally different to Scotland.

The English numbers are to be corrected to bring them into line with Scotland and Wales.

 

[20togo]

….and on and on the arguments rumble. People using their own interpretation of statistics to back up their views.
Think it's been pretty clear from very on in this pandemic that different countries use their own methods to determine numbers. And now still four months later we get the same circular arguments.

 

[Realfish]

Not sneaking out the imposition on a tweet late at night like Matt Hancock....

That's the Starmer / Labour Party line. The announcement of the northern lockdown was NOT made by Hancock's late night tweet. It was announced on the Gov.UK website earlier that evening; was reported in newspapers and Hancock also did a TV interview for the news channels. Starmer should also have known that, Labour's Manchester Mayor, Burnham, was informed late afternoon on that day.

 

[Lost Seasider]

Are you calling the Chief Scientific Officer a liar? I know Boris Johnson lies as a matter of course but really!

Having read the Sage minutes and also having watched (in full) Sir Patrick's appearance in front of the S&TSC on 16 July I'm happy to describe that article and your understanding of the situation as utterly wrong.

Minutes of S&TSC meeting, 16 July

I can find nothing in the minutes of that meeting that (properly understood) would support the headline or your claim, I think the basis for it comes from answers to Graham Stringer:

Q1041
When the SAGE sub-group on modelling, SPI-M, saw that the doubling time had gone down to three days....that was when the advice SAGE issued was that the remainder of the measures should be introduced as soon as possible. I think that advice was given on 16 or 18 March

Q1042
Graham Stringer: Did it immediately affect the recommendations on what to do?

Sir Patrick Vallance: It absolutely affected the recommendations on what to do, which was that the remaining measures should be implemented as soon as possible. I think that was the advice given

It is clear to me from the minutes of 10 & 16 March (posted earlier) that "remaining measures" means whole household isolation (where infection is present) and social distancing for over 70's and vulnerable groups.

What the author has done is conflate the "remaining measures" that were recommended on 16 March (and implemented on the same day) with the later lockdown decision of 23 March, which went far beyond anything that was being recommended either on 16 March, or for that matter even on the 23rd, and is thus wrongly saying that lockdown was being recommended on 16 March (when it clearly wasn't).

As someone responsible for educating others you should really know better than to simply take journalism at face value and should be looking beyond the headlines to find the truth.

 

[Mike_BFC]

I have just listened to Nicola Sturgeon explaining in her news conference the need to reimpose lockdown in Aberdeen. Absolutely clear in her explanation-with a wide range of guidance to people in different situations e.g. visitors currently in the city.I
Not sneaking out the imposition on a tweet late at night like Matt Hancock with only one bit of guidance about not meeting other households indoors but taking time to chuck blame about.

I’m encouraged with the average age of the squad but agree we still need to strengthen at centre back!

 

[Leither]

….and on and on the arguments rumble. People using their own interpretation of statistics to back up their views.
Think it's been pretty clear from very on in this pandemic that different countries use their own methods to determine numbers. And now still four months later we get the same circular arguments.

There are no interpretations . . these are UK government figures.

 

[20togo]

There are no interpretations . . these are UK government figures.

Suggest you read my post properly. Since when have "different countries" been just the four countries of the UK.

 

[Leither]

Suggest you read my post properly. Since when have "different countries" been just the four countries of the UK.

I suggest you read the OP & thread properly . . the discussion is about Scotland and England.

 

[20togo]

I suggest you read the OP & thread properly . . the discussion is about Scotland and England.

My point was about the circular arguments in general and how long they've been going on on here when it comes to different countries and how stats are calculated. I make that pretty clear.

 

[Leither]

My point was about the circular arguments in general and how long they've been going on on here when it comes to different countries and how stats are calculated. I make that pretty clear.

Maybe you do but it's a bit random to drop that into a discussion about the UK.

 

[Rektseasider]

Sage minutes, 16 March

1. On the basis of accumulating data, including on NHS critical care capacity, the advice from SAGE has changed regarding the speed of implementation of additional interventions.

2. SAGE advises that there is clear evidence to support additional social distancing measures be introduced as soon as possible.

4. SAGE will further review at its next meeting whether, in the light of new data, school closures may also be required to prevent NHS capacity being exceeded.

Nothing about lockdown in there, schools are remaining open so in fact they are explicitly excluding lockdown at this point.

So what do they mean by "additional social distancing"?

Sage minutes, 10 March

32. A summary of triggers and timings for the 3 interventions under consideration isset out in the table below.

Measure and/or combination of measures	Suggested Trigger Point	Estimated time of occurrence
(1) Home Isolation of symptomatic cases	ICU cases tracking and other surveillance data, with a presumption that we have reached 100 ICU cases (cumulative)	Within the next 10 days
(2) Whole Household isolation	Based on cumulative ICU cases tracking and other surveillance data Actual trigger point: somewhere between 100 and 300 ICU cases (cumulative)	1-3 weeks after (1)
(3) Social distancing for 70+ and vulnerable groups	Cumulative ICU cases and other surveillance data Somewhere between 100 and 300 ICU cases (cumulative)	1-3 weeks after (1)

And the actual government response:

16 March
Prime Minister Boris Johnson advises everyone in the UK against "non-essential" travel and contact with others, to curb coronavirus, as well as to work from home if possible and avoid visiting social venues such as pubs, clubs or theatres. Pregnant women, people over the age of 70 and those with certain health conditions are urged to consider the advice "particularly important", and will be asked to self-isolate within days.[65] The Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport states "it is advised that large gatherings should not take place"

So on the same day that they are advised to introduce additional measures they've gone far beyond anything that was being suggested 6 days ago and you think this is a slow response.

In fact, if you look at the Sage minutes, 23 March, there is nothing at all in there about further measures and "lockdown" was the government going even further than Sage recommended without waiting for further scientific evidence to become available.




Based on a throw away comment by Neil Ferguson that is highly debatable once you consider the effect of the social distancing measures that were in place and the likely R rate both before and after lockdown.

And note that Prof. Ferguson was not recommending "lockdown" at the time.




The information would have been available the day before, the meeting could easily have taken place 12-18 hours earlier and if it had been the UK government likely would have.




I fail to spot an error on my part, would you like to acknowledge your error on the timing of lockdown?

Possibly the finest dismantling posts I’ve ever seen on here. Brings a tear to my eye . Bravo sir.

 

[Ollygon]

A lot of racist comments on here. Surprised no-one has mentioned Jimmy Krankie yet.

Compared to the Idiot in Clowning Street she's done superbly. The same can be said for the former Conservative leader in Scotland, Rurh Davidson. She always talks common sense.

 

[tommytwojags]

A lot of racist comments on here. Surprised no-one has mentioned Jimmy Krankie yet.
Compared to the Idiot in Clowning Street she's done superbly. The same can be said for the former Conservative leader in Scotland, Rurh Davidson. She always talks common sense.

Well if you ignore everything Nicola Sturgeon has done wrong, she's done superbly.

 

[Ollygon]

Well if you ignore everything Nicola Sturgeon has done wrong, she's done superbly.

Oh. Johnson has played a blinder has he then?

He's very lucky Trump has been around, otherwise he'd be a cert for the Nobel Prize for Incompetence

 

[tommytwojags]

Oh. Johnson has played a blinder has he then? He's very lucky Trump has been around, otherwise he'd be a cert for the Nobel Prize for Incompetence

Why are you saying Johnson has played a blinder? Nobody else is.

 

[catinstalbans]

Even the evolution denying DUP have done better than the Corrupt One.

 

[Newholland]

Its quite clear how well her administration has handled the exam situation.... disadvantaged the disadvantaged!! Thought you’d be all over this Cat....being a champion of the disadvantaged.

 

[catinstalbans]

It's not looking great but at least she has apologised. I'll be honest and say I'm waiting to see how my students have fared before making a complete judgement.
Johnson has killed 20000 people but still says he's doing a good job.

 

[Insider]

That's a hell of a lot of people not washing their hands after shaking his.

 

[CalmDown]

Johnson has killed 20000 people but still says he's doing a good job.

That’s a tad slanderous is it not?

Can you prove your accusation?

 

[catinstalbans]

Numerous studies show at least 20000 extra deaths caused by Boris Johnson's negligence.

 

[Lost Seasider]

Numerous studies show at least 20000 extra deaths caused by Boris Johnson's negligence.

Link please.