Civil Service pay

Wizaard

Wizaard

Well-known member
As predicted, the round of applause is the only tangible benefit we'll get. Inflation currently at 2.6%, so pay offer of between 1.5 and 2.5%. In real terms, a pay cut.

Not unexpected, but still...meanwhile in Sweden, public servants get a 220% increase as a thank you.
 
Wizaard said:
As predicted, the round of applause is the only tangible benefit we'll get. Inflation currently at 2.6%, so pay offer of between 1.5 and 2.5%. In real terms, a pay cut.

Not unexpected, but still...meanwhile in Sweden, public servants get a 220% increase as a thank you.
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Cost of living has increased by 1.5% so anything above that is an increase.
 
Given the billions this going to cost - no pay rises for some time and rise in income tax ,vat or national insurance

Not moaning or complaining but inevitable
 
Has Wizaard had a life outside of AVFTT, since told to work from home during the lockdown.? 🤣
Should be grateful he gets a pay rise at all.
Besides, Civil Servants lucrative pensions more than make up for any lack of bonus.
 
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And to think Wizz, some people won't have jobs to go back to, family businesses build up over many years will hit the skids, the tax take will fall through the floor the holiday industry is on its knees, restaurant staff are stuffed, people all over the world are worried stiff about the future and having any kind of job or life at all come to that.

Still what have they got to moan about eh?
 
braymarina said:
And to think Wizz, some people won't have jobs to go back to, family businesses build up over many years will hit the skids, the tax take will fall through the floor the holiday industry is on its knees, restaurant staff are stuffed, people all over the world are worried stiff about the future and having any kind of job or life at all come to that.

Still what have they got to moan about eh?
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Well said, sir 👏
 
Wizaard said:
As predicted, the round of applause is the only tangible benefit we'll get. Inflation currently at 2.6%, so pay offer of between 1.5 and 2.5%. In real terms, a pay cut.

Not unexpected, but still...meanwhile in Sweden, public servants get a 220% increase as a thank you.
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Unless you live in Scotland who are giving all civil servants 3% 🤔
 
braymarina said:
And to think Wizz, some people won't have jobs to go back to, family businesses build up over many years will hit the skids, the tax take will fall through the floor the holiday industry is on its knees, restaurant staff are stuffed, people all over the world are worried stiff about the future and having any kind of job or life at all come to that.

Still what have they got to moan about eh?
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Why oh why do some people feel it necessary to try to undermine people who have a legitimate case for a decent pay rise by implying that they don't because others are also in a bad way? It's not a competition to show how hard done by you can be.
 
Bisphamtang said:
Given the billions this going to cost - no pay rises for some time and rise in income tax ,vat or national insurance

Not moaning or complaining but inevitable
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Yes indeed, after a decade of paying for the banks' profligacy.
1966_and_all_that said:
Why oh why do some people feel it necessary to try to undermine people who have a legitimate case for a decent pay rise by implying that they don't because others are also in a bad way? It's not a competition to show how hard done by you can be.
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Tory mentality of encouraging a race to the bottom rather than aspire to all getting a better standard of living.
 
I suppose there is a time and a place for banging on about how hard done by you are but can I venture to suggest this is neither the time or the place as quiet a lot of people who visit this site will be in one or other of the predicamants I mentioned in my previous response.

And, "also in a bad way" sounds a bit rich when comparing a 2.6% pay rise with the shxt storm a lot of people's lives are in at the moment.
 
braymarina said:
I suppose there is a time and a place for banging on about how hard done by you are but can I venture to suggest this is neither the time or the place as quiet a lot of people who visit this site will be in one or other of the predicamants I mentioned in my previous response.

And, "also in a bad way" sounds a bit rich when comparing a 2.6% pay rise with the shxt storm a lot of people's lives are in at the moment.
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2.6% is the inflation rate. I'll be very surprised if the rise reaches 1.5% despite Boris signalling otherwise last week. Once again, saying one thing and doing another, which was the point of the post.
 
braymarina said:
I suppose there is a time and a place for banging on about how hard done by you are but can I venture to suggest this is neither the time or the place as quiet a lot of people who visit this site will be in one or other of the predicamants I mentioned in my previous response.

And, "also in a bad way" sounds a bit rich when comparing a 2.6% pay rise with the shxt storm a lot of people's lives are in at the moment.
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The time and the place to complain is always NOW.

I appreciate there are people in this country who are in much worse condition (financial or otherwsie) that I am now. But since the day any of us here were born there have been people who are in much worse condition. Even in this country alone, before you take in to account those in developing g nations. That doesn't mean we shouldn't complain or have the right to moan.
 
Wizaard said:
2.6% is the inflation rate. I'll be very surprised if the rise reaches 1.5% despite Boris signalling otherwise last week. Once again, saying one thing and doing another, which was the point of the post.
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2.6% is RPI Mate.... RPI has been 1% or so higher than the rate of inflation for a good time.... It's largely been dropped and replaced with CPI in line with other Countries and rightly so. To that extent, 1.5% is very much in line with inflation and anything above that is an increase vs the normal cost of living.

I get where Braymarina is coming from TBH and whilst I do think that there are roles within the Public Sector and in the Private Sector that have been undervalued, I'm not sure now is the time for most businesses / organisations to be handing out inflation busting wage increases.

Once the pandemic is over and we know where we are as a Nation, then we likely need to re-evaluate where our priorities lie and deal with some of the imbalance.

United Kingdom Inflation Rate

Inflation Rate in the United Kingdom decreased to 3.40 percent in February from 4 percent in January of 2024. This page provides - United Kingdom Inflation Rate - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.
tradingeconomics.com tradingeconomics.com
 
I’ve got an idea.

The virtue signallers should be charged per clap.

It’s easy to stand on your doorstep on a Thursday night applauding; whilst checking which neighbours aren’t sufficiently enthusiastic. And then returning indoors feeling smug and all self congratulatory, at the same time as writing to your MP about the need to rein in public spending.

But if with every clap you had to donate a specific sum to, say, the NHS. Or even the government department of your choice.

Well that’d be very interesting.
 
Surely everyone knows there are people on this board who are just wrong headed. Like those who were slow to drive change at the club and stuck up for the Oyston regime instead until even they eventually saw the way the wind was blowing. Not that I’m saying it’s a thing civil servants have in common or anything.
 
Public servants have been bottom of the list over the last 10 years when it's come to pay. That's a fact. Whether it be nurses, care workers, teachers or binmen. And the gold plated pensions some like to sneer at are nothing like that anymore. Whether now is the time to highlight that I don't know. Perhaps not. But those same public servants have come to the fore when the country has needed them.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
2.6% is RPI Mate.... RPI has been 1% or so higher than the rate of inflation for a good time.... It's largely been dropped and replaced with CPI in line with other Countries and rightly so. To that extent, 1.5% is very much in line with inflation and anything above that is an increase vs the normal cost of living.

I get where Braymarina is coming from TBH and whilst I do think that there are roles within the Public Sector and in the Private Sector that have been undervalued, I'm not sure now is the time for most businesses / organisations to be handing out inflation busting wage increases.

Once the pandemic is over and we know where we are as a Nation, then we likely need to re-evaluate where our priorities lie and deal with some of the imbalance.

United Kingdom Inflation Rate

Inflation Rate in the United Kingdom decreased to 3.40 percent in February from 4 percent in January of 2024. This page provides - United Kingdom Inflation Rate - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.
tradingeconomics.com tradingeconomics.com
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Austerity was declared over three years ago. The civil service in general hasn't had a pay rise above 1% in 13 years, and for at least four of those we had a complete freeze. Deliberately done. Not bleating about it, just saying we're way behind the inflation curve whichever measure you use.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
Public servants have been bottom of the list over the last 10 years when it's come to pay. That's a fact. Whether it be nurses, care workers, teachers or binmen. And the gold plated pensions some like to sneer at are nothing like that anymore. Whether now is the time to highlight that I don't know. Perhaps not. But those same public servants have come to the fore when the country has needed them.
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Not sure there's a lot of difference tbh (however, I have no idea about binmen and their wage increases over the last 10 years)
 
braymarina said:
I suppose there is a time and a place for banging on about how hard done by you are but can I venture to suggest this is neither the time or the place as quiet a lot of people who visit this site will be in one or other of the predicamants I mentioned in my previous response.

And, "also in a bad way" sounds a bit rich when comparing a 2.6% pay rise with the shxt storm a lot of people's lives are in at the moment.
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Tbh, when I read the o/p I assumed it was tongue in cheek... there are an awful lot of people atm that would "kill" for a stable job and 0% pay increase next year... maybe even a reasonable pay cut? Some people live so much in their own little bubble.
 
braymarina said:
I suppose there is a time and a place for banging on about how hard done by you are but can I venture to suggest this is neither the time or the place as quiet a lot of people who visit this site will be in one or other of the predicamants I mentioned in my previous response.

And, "also in a bad way" sounds a bit rich when comparing a 2.6% pay rise with the shxt storm a lot of people's lives are in at the moment.
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I did not compare 2.6% with anything. But, of course a lot of people's lives are very bad at the moment. My point was not to compare, rather quite the opposite. One person's difficulties does not deny the legitimacy of another person's claim unless, of course, one is responsible for the others predicament.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
2.6% is RPI Mate.... RPI has been 1% or so higher than the rate of inflation for a good time.... It's largely been dropped and replaced with CPI in line with other Countries and rightly so. To that extent, 1.5% is very much in line with inflation and anything above that is an increase vs the normal cost of living.

I get where Braymarina is coming from TBH and whilst I do think that there are roles within the Public Sector and in the Private Sector that have been undervalued, I'm not sure now is the time for most businesses / organisations to be handing out inflation busting wage increases.

Once the pandemic is over and we know where we are as a Nation, then we likely need to re-evaluate where our priorities lie and deal with some of the imbalance.

United Kingdom Inflation Rate

Inflation Rate in the United Kingdom decreased to 3.40 percent in February from 4 percent in January of 2024. This page provides - United Kingdom Inflation Rate - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.
tradingeconomics.com tradingeconomics.com
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Fair point.
 
The public sector went best part of 10yrs with no pay rises or effective pay cuts. We paid for the banks 2008 cock up and our pensions despite being well managed and no burden on the public purse have been plundered by successive governments. So the advice I got when starting in local government in 1978 was the pay is less than an equivalent private sector job,but the pension will make up for it.... well let me tell you...it won't...
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Why oh why do some people feel it necessary to try to undermine people who have a legitimate case for a decent pay rise by implying that they don't because others are also in a bad way? It's not a competition to show how hard done by you can be.
Click to expand...
Think it's a question of who pays for it
With the gov't revenues expected to be savaged and a projected 6m unemployed the maths doesn't work
There also seems to be a fallacy that you earn less in the pubic sector Maybe at the top end that might be right but most certainly not for most
 
The public sector workers are always there in good times and in bad.

They are maligned in both.

For balance they do deserve a pay rise - a ruddy big one.

And those that - in the good times rinsed people in every way they could - I hoped you saved up.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Think it's a question of who pays for it
With the gov't revenues expected to be savaged and a projected 6m unemployed the maths doesn't work
There also seems to be a fallacy that you earn less in the pubic sector Maybe at the top end that might be right but most certainly not for most
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Totally agree .The government is currently going into eye watering amounts of debt to bale out those who can`t currently work in furlough and universal credit payments while plenty more are seeing their businesses disappear down the plughole and at the same time the massive drop in government receipts from taxation means they have precious little money coming in and we have some on here still in full time employment complaining about an above inflation pay rise.

Utterly self centred and economically totally clueless.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
Totally agree .The government is currently going into eye watering amounts of debt to bale out those who can`t currently work in furlough and universal credit payments while plenty more are seeing their businesses disappear down the plughole and at the same time the massive drop in government receipts from taxation means they have precious little money coming in and we have some on here still in full time employment complaining about an above inflation pay rise.

Utterly self centred and economically totally clueless.
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Point of order!!

The furlough scheme bailed out the bosses; not the workers!!!!! Basically the taxpayer (that’ll be me again!) assumed responsibility for a huge wedge of business costs as compensation for the revenue lost as a result of the lockdown. So it’s those businesses that are the prime beneficiaries.

And that’s on top of the grants and loans, particularly CBILS which involve interest free loans of up to £5m per business. Free cash for 12 months!!!! Yes please. Oh and if the companies default on the repayment of the loans they only have to pay 20%; the taxpayer (hi there!) will pay the rest. So nice for the banks as well.

Now these schemes might well be sensible measures, but not let’s misrepresent who they are designed to benefit.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Point of order!!

The furlough scheme bailed out the bosses; not the workers!!!!! Basically the taxpayer (that’ll be me again!) assumed responsibility for a huge wedge of business costs as compensation for the revenue lost as a result of the lockdown. So it’s those businesses that are the prime beneficiaries.

And that’s on top of the grants and loans, particularly CBILS which involve interest free loans of up to £5m per business. Free cash for 12 months!!!! Yes please. Oh and if the companies default on the repayment of the loans they only have to pay 20%; the taxpayer (hi there!) will pay the rest. So nice for the banks as well.

Now these schemes might well be sensible measures, but not let’s misrepresent who they are designed to benefit.
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The reality is these initiatives are currently shoring up the workforce and preventing mass unemployment

The benefit is to all

We will only know if it's worked when it ends
 
In regards to not paying the money back and only being liable for 20% in total; that just is not true as that could only happen in an extreme circumstance.

You can have 100% of the loan guaranteed on your business IF your business is worth it, which means if you go into default they will just get it back that way.

However if you cannot cover the loan in the future, they will come after your business first; and then any outstanding debt you will be personally liable for up to 20% of the initial loan value* i.e. your house and any assets.

Not quite deal of the century!!

The real free money is the gifts (grants) to the smaller businesses and the furlough for all.

*When you take out the loan you effectively sign a piece of paper that shows you have these assets, and you then agree that you can no longer sell them without the banks permission. That way if you do go into default they get their 20% and they know where it is! (Unless you are called Owen or Karl apparently)
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
The reality is these initiatives are currently shoring up the workforce and preventing mass unemployment

The benefit is to all

We will only know if it's worked when it ends
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Ok; in which case people should stop talking in terms of “bailing out the workers” or “weaning the workers off furlough”.
 
seasideone said:
In regards to not paying the money back and only being liable for 20% in total; that just is not true as that could only happen in an extreme circumstance.

You can have 100% of the loan guaranteed on your business IF your business is worth it, which means if you go into default they will just get it back that way.

However if you cannot cover the loan in the future, they will come after your business first; and then any outstanding debt you will be personally liable for up to 20% of the initial loan value* i.e. your house and any assets.

Not quite deal of the century!!

The real free money is the gifts (grants) to the smaller businesses and the furlough for all.

*When you take out the loan you effectively sign a piece of paper that shows you have these assets, and you then agree that you can no longer sell them without the banks permission. That way if you do go into default they get their 20% and they know where it is! (Unless you are called Owen or Karl apparently)
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Actually I seem to recall the CBILS scheme was changed so that the ability of the bank to call for a PG from directors was limited.

And if the company can’t repay the loan then it’s insolvent and by definition it’s liabilities will exceed its assets. Hence the government/taxpayer guarantee for 80%.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Actually I seem to recall the CBILS scheme was changed so that the ability of the bank to call for a PG from directors was limited.

And if the company can’t repay the loan then it’s insolvent and by definition it’s liabilities will exceed its assets. Hence the government/taxpayer guarantee for 80%.
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I think the point is that if you reach the point that the Govt has to stand the loan your business must be goosed - and there will likely be PG's called upon elsewhere in such circumstances
As he says hardly free money
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
I think the point is that if you reach the point that the Govt has to stand the loan your business must be goosed - and there will likely be PG's called upon elsewhere in such circumstances
As he says hardly free money
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Civi service pensions aren’t free either. Contributions are much more in line with reality now, so much so I know a few new starters who have opted out of the scheme.
 
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