booing the knee

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With all these anti this and anti that campaigns we have to put up with at the football, when will there be campaigns for Anti Gingerism and Anti Fatism?
 
LimerickTangerine said:
Why won't English show the fight for Irish people to be allowed the 6 counties that was stolen back? When that happens I'll show my fight for other political Movements
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Again, it’s not a political movement, it’s about people being shown respect no matter what their skin colour is and if you don’t agree with it, you’re a racist.
 
Past my bed time. Agree to disagree, if we ever get back and this charade is still going on, I personally wouldn't boo, but I may turn my back. 👍
 
Terminallytangerine said:
Couldn't disagree more. It is a chance to support an active gesture of defiance against racism and show solidarity with our black players who within living memory have been subjected to monkey noises . Making excuses by regurgitating the Ladybird book of nasty Marxists is just that - an excuse. The Millwall Supporters Club just showed themselves complicit IMHO and should have their jellied eels confiscated. Rant over.
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This.
 
Bottom line is not race creed or colour should be ignored no matter what you ** do We all have to work like twats
 
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This thread proves what a divisive subject matter it is, and no matter how worthy the cause, I’d prefer to keep it out of football. The start of a match is when all supporters should be united behind the team, not arguing with the person next to them. So it’s a “no” from me, but I’d never “boo” such a worthy cause. Racial abuse at football matches should be dealt with separately by the Club and the authorities.
 
Well if your wound up imagine been living during British rule/famine.

It's absolutely nothing to do with this day brits or their generation before or even before that just needs to be mentioned and if u have a problem with that u don't know your history or else your ashamed of it
 
td53 said:
I'm a bit confused as to what the issue is tbh. If I said 'playing the national anthem is a disgusting gesture celebrating the centuries long oppression of the people by an invading monarchy who are thieves and leeches and as the worlds biggest land owners, absolute parasites on everyone's existence' then I imagine that some of the same people who are complaining about a 5 second taking of the knee would say I'm being hysterical and reading into a simple tradition, something that isn't there and imbuing it with a meaning that is way over the top. I'm not especially comfortable with a monarchy, I never have been and never will be but I don't boo it or kick off about it as others are comfortable with it. I respect people's right to sing an anthem or hold a flag without moaning. If we make a final and it's played, I won't be moaning about it on here, ever though it's not really my bag.

I'm not inviting a debate on monarchy or my feelings therein, just using it as an example of something that never sits right with me but I just crack on with and ignore.

Yet BLM is 'promotion of marxism and support for criminality, divisive, dangerous etc etc' when I see it just as a load of lads (i.e. footballers) sticking up for the fact they don't want their mates booed, spat at, subjected to abuse etc which happens. However infrequently and however less often than it used to, it still does.

Tbh, I don't think 'raising awareness' actually is as important as economic change and I have some sympathy for the argument that young white males are demonised in different ways and telling people on sump estates to 'check their privilege' is smug wank. In some ways, 'all lives matter' and racism is forged in the crucible of poverty and I wish people could spend as much energy working out how to sort that out as they do whining about something that takes 5 seconds out of our lives. When we divide ourselves no one wins. Loads of footballers agreeing that racism is wrong, I don't see how that's actually divisive.

I just see the footballers doing what they're doing as a decent thing in support of lads they play with and the FA have dropped the 'Black Lives Matter slogan in favour of a different non political one which I can't remember.

Maybe I'm just naive but I don't think 'don't be racist' is ever a bad message - whether there's 2000 or 10 million watching. There's fuck loads of reasons to be angry about stuff, this ain't one of them imho.
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Great post.
 
It’s divisive, not necessary and needs to be removed before supporters return to football. I can imagine trouble in the stands when we’re back to normal. The fact the discussion is still ongoing and people don’t agree is the point that it’s divisive. If people feel it’s not about BLM and is about racial equality then thats fine. But there’s no need to take a knee and give the Black power sign. I would suggest they all hold hands or carry a banner for racial equality.
I am still not sure where the the racism is in sport anyway, can anyone point to the unbalanced racial inequality in football especially ? ( It’s not racist if you choose a manager that is not Black due to his abilities)
 
m not really sure what I think. I wouldn’t boo the taking the knee gesture and I’m not sure I agree with people who do...The gesture (at least as far as the players are concerned) is about showing solidarity with those who are subject to racism and, in particular, abused or killed due to the colour of their skin. To that extent, I fully support the gesture and the need to rally against any kind of racial inequality as it’s abhorrent.

All that said, I do wonder whether it has become divisive and whether the gesture has been over-done. If treated as a regular match day event, then theoretically you could end up with a whole series of minority group gestures lasting several minutes before each game as it would be unfair to have one rule for one etc...

Maybe there are better ways for football and footballers to challenge these subjects and raise awareness or maybe those who object so strongly to the gesture need to reflect on their own prejudice and recognise that racism is a far bigger issue than a few blokes kneeling for a few seconds at a game of football.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
m not really sure what I think. I wouldn’t boo the taking the knee gesture and I’m not sure I agree with people who do...The gesture (at least as far as the players are concerned) is about showing solidarity with those who are subject to racism and, in particular, abused or killed due to the colour of their skin. To that extent, I fully support the gesture and the need to rally against any kind of racial inequality as it’s abhorrent.

All that said, I do wonder whether it has become divisive and whether the gesture has been over-done. If treated as a regular match day event, then theoretically you could end up with a whole series of minority group gestures lasting several minutes before each game as it would be unfair to have one rule for one etc...

Maybe there are better ways for football and footballers to challenge these subjects and raise awareness or maybe those who object so strongly to the gesture need to reflect on their own prejudice and recognise that racism is a far bigger issue than a few blokes kneeling for a few seconds at a game of football.
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Fair post.
 
Anyone who thinks sport and politics shouldn’t be mixed needs to tell that to all those in South Africa freed from the tyranny of apartheid.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
m not really sure what I think. I wouldn’t boo the taking the knee gesture and I’m not sure I agree with people who do...The gesture (at least as far as the players are concerned) is about showing solidarity with those who are subject to racism and, in particular, abused or killed due to the colour of their skin. To that extent, I fully support the gesture and the need to rally against any kind of racial inequality as it’s abhorrent.

All that said, I do wonder whether it has become divisive and whether the gesture has been over-done. If treated as a regular match day event, then theoretically you could end up with a whole series of minority group gestures lasting several minutes before each game as it would be unfair to have one rule for one etc...

Maybe there are better ways for football and footballers to challenge these subjects and raise awareness or maybe those who object so strongly to the gesture need to reflect on their own prejudice and recognise that racism is a far bigger issue than a few blokes kneeling for a few seconds at a game of football.
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I’d agree with pretty much all of that except that I’m sure I don’t agree with the booing of the team.

As for the argument that taking the knee is divisive and should be stopped for that reason, well that’d be an easy way to stop any practice you didn’t agree with. Just claim it upsets you, it’s therefore divisive, and should be stopped immediately. Sort of gives a blank cheque to the Constantly Outraged Tendency that seems to have such a hold on middle aged males these days (used to be known as Grumpy Old Men).

As for when the kneeling should end, well that’s down to the players I suppose. As has been said, it lasts only for a few seconds so should have zero impact on the enjoyment of the match. My only concern about it continuing beyond its sell by date is that it could lose its impact and become another meaningless gesture, and an opportunity for empty virtue signalling. We have enough of that in society these days without adding to it.
 
td53 said:
I'm a bit confused as to what the issue is tbh. If I said 'playing the national anthem is a disgusting gesture celebrating the centuries long oppression of the people by an invading monarchy who are thieves and leeches and as the worlds biggest land owners, absolute parasites on everyone's existence' then I imagine that some of the same people who are complaining about a 5 second taking of the knee would say I'm being hysterical and reading into a simple tradition, something that isn't there and imbuing it with a meaning that is way over the top. I'm not especially comfortable with a monarchy, I never have been and never will be but I don't boo it or kick off about it as others are comfortable with it. I respect people's right to sing an anthem or hold a flag without moaning. If we make a final and it's played, I won't be moaning about it on here, ever though it's not really my bag.

I'm not inviting a debate on monarchy or my feelings therein, just using it as an example of something that never sits right with me but I just crack on with and ignore.

Yet BLM is 'promotion of marxism and support for criminality, divisive, dangerous etc etc' when I see it just as a load of lads (i.e. footballers) sticking up for the fact they don't want their mates booed, spat at, subjected to abuse etc which happens. However infrequently and however less often than it used to, it still does.

Tbh, I don't think 'raising awareness' actually is as important as economic change and I have some sympathy for the argument that young white males are demonised in different ways and telling people on sump estates to 'check their privilege' is smug wank. In some ways, 'all lives matter' and racism is forged in the crucible of poverty and I wish people could spend as much energy working out how to sort that out as they do whining about something that takes 5 seconds out of our lives. When we divide ourselves no one wins. Loads of footballers agreeing that racism is wrong, I don't see how that's actually divisive.

I just see the footballers doing what they're doing as a decent thing in support of lads they play with and the FA have dropped the 'Black Lives Matter slogan in favour of a different non political one which I can't remember.

Maybe I'm just naive but I don't think 'don't be racist' is ever a bad message - whether there's 2000 or 10 million watching. There's fuck loads of reasons to be angry about stuff, this ain't one of them imho.
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It's similar to dogooders being a pejorative term.

Why is doing good frowned upon? What's the alternative?
 
Wizaard said:
It's similar to dogooders being a pejorative term.

Why is doing good frowned upon? What's the alternative?
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I don’t think it’s the ‘doing good’ that is the issue, so much as individuals who perceive themselves as ‘doing good’, but actually do more harm....

The train lever dilemma illustrates these types very well. Insomuch as they will tend to come from a position of emotion and care etc.. To that extent, their emotion and sense of doing good in the immediate prevents them from managing or understanding the ‘greater good’
 
Killingmesoftly said:
I think 99% of us have no issue or even think about people’s religious beliefs, sexual orientation or colour /race....so get fed up of the repetitive stuff which tbh probably achieves little to nothing....
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That’s easy to say from a position of privilege... I doubt those who experience the shitty end of the racism stick would agree...

If you think about what you are saying ...

A few months of players taking the knee prior to kick off at football games

vs

A lifetime of being abused and mistreated, due to the colour of your skin...
 
I feel like football has been defiled this year. This continued empty gesture being one of the major reasons to switch off.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I don’t think it’s the ‘doing good’ that is the issue, so much as individuals who perceive themselves as ‘doing good’, but actually do more harm....

The train lever dilemma illustrates these types very well. Insomuch as they will tend to come from a position of emotion and care etc.. To that extent, their emotion and sense of doing good in the immediate prevents them from managing or understanding the ‘greater good’
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You mean like the NIMBY’s and OAP hippies who campaigned for fracking to stop?

Those few people who saw something they disagreed with took a stance and fought for what they believed was right.....

suddenly you’re the guy passing them in the road in his van/BMW/Chelsea Tractor beeping your horn because you’re 5 minutes late getting to your home.

you may not agree with what they are doing or how they do it but it’s right......it’s going to turn into something else, another show of solidarity in some way with players/people who experience this s##t every day from the morons who inhabit this country.

let it run it’s course....it’s doing more good then harm.... the next generation understands its meaning....because it’s not us that will make the changes
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
You mean like the NIMBY’s and OAP hippies who campaigned for fracking to stop?

Those few people who saw something they disagreed with took a stance and fought for what they believed was right.....

suddenly you’re the guy passing them in the road in his van/BMW/Chelsea Tractor beeping your horn because you’re 5 minutes late getting to your home.

you may not agree with what they are doing or how they do it but it’s right......it’s going to turn into something else, another show of solidarity in some way with players/people who experience this s##t every day from the morons who inhabit this country.

let it run it’s course....it’s doing more good then harm.... the next generation understands its meaning....because it’s not us that will make the changes
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No, nothing like the objection to Fracking which was precisely the opposite to what I was describing.
 
Halifax71 said:
Why the hell should people? It's a divisive cause - BLM is a divisive cause. Just because you disagree don't start taking the moral high ground. This is the while point. 👎
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It's only seen as divisive by white people who feel threatened. But why giving people of a different ethnicity an even break in life should be threatening perplexes me. I think it's a sign of inadequacy, really.
 
It is amazing the contortions that some will get into to criticise this gesture that takes a maximum of 10 seconds. I don't think that wanting racial equality in society is political unless of course you are on the extreme right. The other stuff about BLM, marxism, ending capitalism, defund the police are all diversionary tactics from people who want to distract from the racial equality message. It makes people feel uncomfortable (myself included) because it forces you to examine your own attitudes and biases - we all have them.
Good luck to the younger generation, I hope that we do see some actual real change in our society, kneeling before a game is easy but actualling tackling structural inequality in society is very, very hard.
 
1535........England Annex Wales
1536.........England Annex Ireland
1707.........England Annex Scotland

WOW.....It's like being back at School.........Come on you lot....Lets get your quill and parchment out

Geography at 12.30pm.......Todays lesson......How do we get out of our bedroom, put away that laptop.....and actually go out and see daylight....!
Humanities....at 1.30pm.........Todays lesson......Racism.......Is it OK to call Mr Patel a P@ki.......and your mate Danny...a Jungle Bunny....?
English Language...at 2.30pm.....Todays lesson......If I can talk a load of bo11ox.....am I also able to write a load of bo11ox.......?
History....at 3.30pm......Todays lesson........If I watched a TV programme on the BBC, 3 years ago......does this make me an expert on the subject.....?

There will be a Football game after School........AVFTT'ers will be able to stand on the side lines where they can openly criticize the year 6 team.
You will also be able to slag off Mr Henderson's team formation and tactics.....and at half time there will be a open forum where you can tell him everything he's done wrong over the last 40 years,,,,,,,,

Year 6 have decided to take the knee before kick off to show solidarity to those experiencing racism at school.......Those AVFTT'ers not wishing to attend, can have an extra 30 seconds shouting expletives and abusing the dinner ladies....

AVFTT'ers from FY1 - FY4 are excused Homework......As they are all from a rough tuff postcode, and the teachers are scared your dad will come to the school to beat them up for trying to educate you.....Those from FY8 postcode can just look down on the rest of us......
 
basilrobbie said:
It's only seen as divisive by white people who feel threatened. But why giving people of a different ethnicity an even break in life should be threatening perplexes me. I think it's a sign of inadequacy, really.
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Interesting that several Black people I’ve spoken to including my nephew thinks it gone on too long, maybe the cultural divide changes from North to South. Obviously not.
 
Scaramanga said:
Interesting that several Black people I’ve spoken to including my nephew thinks it gone on too long, maybe the cultural divide changes from North to South. Obviously not.
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Shouting at them through a megaphone and from behind a police barrier isn't quite the same as speaking to them.

And North/South divide, please. Do you ever travel out of your own street? You might not write this kind of drivel if you did. **

** breaking the "personal comment" rule, my bad.
 
basilrobbie said:
Shouting at them through a megaphone and from behind a police barrier isn't quite the same as speaking to them.

And North/South divide, please. Do you ever travel out of your own street? You might not write this kind of drivel if you did. **

** breaking the "personal comment" rule, my bad.
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What are you talking about, assumption is the mother of all fuck ups and your one of the best at it on here you pompous old fool.
 
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