booing the knee

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O4tonygreen

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Controversial I know, but I really think that those who are booing the taking of the knee aren't racist in their view. I just think that they are sick of the politics creeping into football. Players have been taking the knee for 3 months now. Does this go on forever? I sort of get it for PL games with millions watching on telly, but for games now with 2000 watching in the stadium and no-one watching on telly, its becoming tedious. I must admit that when I see the game start, then stop I sort of go...Oh FFS!

Funniest thing I saw this week was the Tottenham, game where Son and Benteke set off like a house on fire, wrestled with each other, then stopped as they realised they had forgotten the false start to every game.
 
Couldn't disagree more. It is a chance to support an active gesture of defiance against racism and show solidarity with our black players who within living memory have been subjected to monkey noises . Making excuses by regurgitating the Ladybird book of nasty Marxists is just that - an excuse. The Millwall Supporters Club just showed themselves complicit IMHO and should have their jellied eels confiscated. Rant over.
 
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O4tonygreen said:
Controversial I know, but I really think that those who are booing the taking of the knee aren't racist in their view. I just think that they are sick of the politics creeping into football. Players have been taking the knee for 3 months now. Does this go on forever? I sort of get it for PL games with millions watching on telly, but for games now with 2000 watching in the stadium and no-one watching on telly, its becoming tedious. I must admit that when I see the game start, then stop I sort of go...Oh FFS!

Funniest thing I saw this week was the Tottenham, game where Son and Benteke set off like a house on fire, wrestled with each other, then stopped as they realised they had forgotten the false start to every game.
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Yes O4, black people wanting equivalence must be a real pain in the neck.
 
I'm a bit confused as to what the issue is tbh. If I said 'playing the national anthem is a disgusting gesture celebrating the centuries long oppression of the people by an invading monarchy who are thieves and leeches and as the worlds biggest land owners, absolute parasites on everyone's existence' then I imagine that some of the same people who are complaining about a 5 second taking of the knee would say I'm being hysterical and reading into a simple tradition, something that isn't there and imbuing it with a meaning that is way over the top. I'm not especially comfortable with a monarchy, I never have been and never will be but I don't boo it or kick off about it as others are comfortable with it. I respect people's right to sing an anthem or hold a flag without moaning. If we make a final and it's played, I won't be moaning about it on here, ever though it's not really my bag.

I'm not inviting a debate on monarchy or my feelings therein, just using it as an example of something that never sits right with me but I just crack on with and ignore.

Yet BLM is 'promotion of marxism and support for criminality, divisive, dangerous etc etc' when I see it just as a load of lads (i.e. footballers) sticking up for the fact they don't want their mates booed, spat at, subjected to abuse etc which happens. However infrequently and however less often than it used to, it still does.

Tbh, I don't think 'raising awareness' actually is as important as economic change and I have some sympathy for the argument that young white males are demonised in different ways and telling people on sump estates to 'check their privilege' is smug wank. In some ways, 'all lives matter' and racism is forged in the crucible of poverty and I wish people could spend as much energy working out how to sort that out as they do whining about something that takes 5 seconds out of our lives. When we divide ourselves no one wins. Loads of footballers agreeing that racism is wrong, I don't see how that's actually divisive.

I just see the footballers doing what they're doing as a decent thing in support of lads they play with and the FA have dropped the 'Black Lives Matter slogan in favour of a different non political one which I can't remember.

Maybe I'm just naive but I don't think 'don't be racist' is ever a bad message - whether there's 2000 or 10 million watching. There's fuck loads of reasons to be angry about stuff, this ain't one of them imho.
 
td53 said:
I'm a bit confused as to what the issue is tbh. If I said 'playing the national anthem is a disgusting gesture celebrating the centuries long oppression of the people by an invading monarchy who are thieves and leeches and as the worlds biggest land owners, absolute parasites on everyone's existence' then I imagine that some of the same people who are complaining about a 5 second taking of the knee would say I'm being hysterical and reading into a simple tradition, something that isn't there and imbuing it with a meaning that is way over the top. I'm not especially comfortable with a monarchy, I never have been and never will be but I don't boo it or kick off about it as others are comfortable with it. I respect people's right to sing an anthem or hold a flag without moaning. If we make a final and it's played, I won't be moaning about it on here, ever though it's not really my bag.

I'm not inviting a debate on monarchy or my feelings therein, just using it as an example of something that never sits right with me but I just crack on with and ignore.

Yet BLM is 'promotion of marxism and support for criminality, divisive, dangerous etc etc' when I see it just as a load of lads (i.e. footballers) sticking up for the fact they don't want their mates booed, spat at, subjected to abuse etc which happens. However infrequently and however less often than it used to, it still does.

Tbh, I don't think 'raising awareness' actually is as important as economic change and I have some sympathy for the argument that young white males are demonised in different ways and telling people on sump estates to 'check their privilege' is smug wank. In some ways, 'all lives matter' and racism is forged in the crucible of poverty and I wish people could spend as much energy working out how to sort that out as they do whining about something that takes 5 seconds out of our lives. When we divide ourselves no one wins. Loads of footballers agreeing that racism is wrong, I don't see how that's actually divisive.

I just see the footballers doing what they're doing as a decent thing in support of lads they play with and the FA have dropped the 'Black Lives Matter slogan in favour of a different non political one which I can't remember.

Maybe I'm just naive but I don't think 'don't be racist' is ever a bad message - whether there's 2000 or 10 million watching. There's fuck loads of reasons to be angry about stuff, this ain't one of them imho.
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Hear, hear!
 
LimerickTangerine said:
It is political no matter how anyone feels


The boys black or white are paid to play football not promote political awareness

Use there social media for that, not during their hours of work
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If I was black, I’d be absolutely doing the same. They’re using their platform, in front of the media to raise awareness that racism STILL somehow exists in 2020.

Your post just magnifies the fact that you don’t want to see it and you don’t want to see black players raise awareness to the fact that they’re STILL being racially abused by fans.

Booing the knee should be seen as racist in my view.
 
td53 said:
I'm a bit confused as to what the issue is tbh. If I said 'playing the national anthem is a disgusting gesture celebrating the centuries long oppression of the people by an invading monarchy who are thieves and leeches and as the worlds biggest land owners, absolute parasites on everyone's existence' then I imagine that some of the same people who are complaining about a 5 second taking of the knee would say I'm being hysterical and reading into a simple tradition, something that isn't there and imbuing it with a meaning that is way over the top. I'm not especially comfortable with a monarchy, I never have been and never will be but I don't boo it or kick off about it as others are comfortable with it. I respect people's right to sing an anthem or hold a flag without moaning. If we make a final and it's played, I won't be moaning about it on here, ever though it's not really my bag.

I'm not inviting a debate on monarchy or my feelings therein, just using it as an example of something that never sits right with me but I just crack on with and ignore.

Yet BLM is 'promotion of marxism and support for criminality, divisive, dangerous etc etc' when I see it just as a load of lads (i.e. footballers) sticking up for the fact they don't want their mates booed, spat at, subjected to abuse etc which happens. However infrequently and however less often than it used to, it still does.

Tbh, I don't think 'raising awareness' actually is as important as economic change and I have some sympathy for the argument that young white males are demonised in different ways and telling people on sump estates to 'check their privilege' is smug wank. In some ways, 'all lives matter' and racism is forged in the crucible of poverty and I wish people could spend as much energy working out how to sort that out as they do whining about something that takes 5 seconds out of our lives. When we divide ourselves no one wins. Loads of footballers agreeing that racism is wrong, I don't see how that's actually divisive.

I just see the footballers doing what they're doing as a decent thing in support of lads they play with and the FA have dropped the 'Black Lives Matter slogan in favour of a different non political one which I can't remember.

Maybe I'm just naive but I don't think 'don't be racist' is ever a bad message - whether there's 2000 or 10 million watching. There's fuck loads of reasons to be angry about stuff, this ain't one of them imho.
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So again, what is up with kick it out? This taking the knee in support of BLM is divisive due to the politics. That cannot be denied. https://www.kickitout.org/news/fa-launches-new-football-leadership-diversity-code
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Then you are wrong. Politics isn't a hobby, it's life. Black people deserve an equal chance, just like women, the disabled, the poor, the sexually confused. It's the 31st Century peeps. Let's try to be more tolerant.
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Go away, if that's the case why don't we take 5 times the kneeling time for all those too

Have friends who are Black, gay disabled, women poor and none agree with this movement

Why didn't all Irish players do it when we were looked down upon, not long ago no blacks no Irish no dogs signs were all over England.

Because we moved on and use what happened our ancestors get us brownie points
 
For the people who are so upset about the booing can I just ask; why is it such a big deal?

The players have made a collective effort to take 5 SECONDS out of the game to make a statement about something they care about.

5 ** SECONDS. Is that really too much to ask?

If you can't support our lads for 5 ** seconds then get the fuck away from supporting this club.
 
Halifax71 said:
So again, what is up with kick it out? This taking the knee in support of BLM is divisive due to the politics. That cannot be denied.
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*shrug*

Said what I think. Players wanted to do it. They're not asking you to do it. I don't know. Write to the PFA or someone. They've disassociated it from the BLM movement by changing the slogan and connecting it to an FA campaign. Seemingly they listened to people's concerns about using the BLM branding.

To use my original analogy - I could say 'but the anthem is a symbol of oppression and a symbol of Empire and exploitation' and someone could reasonably say 'no, not anymore it's not' and if that's fine, which I can accept, then why can't a gesture be similarly repurposed?

Why does meaning have to be fixed to our our own perspective. If a player says 'I'm just standing against racism' and a fan says 'you're making a political gesture'

Who is right?

Complex innit.

Bedtime.
 
AmericanTangerine said:
For the people who are so upset about the booing can I just ask; why is it such a big deal?

The players have made a collective effort to take 5 SECONDS out of the game to make a statement about something they care about.

5 ** SECONDS. Is that really too much to ask?

If you can't support our lads for 5 ** seconds then get the fuck away from supporting this club.
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Why the hell should people? It's a divisive cause - BLM is a divisive cause. Just because you disagree don't start taking the moral high ground. This is the while point. 👎
 
LimerickTangerine said:
Dock them a days pay
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Silly post.
LimerickTangerine said:
Go away, if that's the case why don't we take 5 times the kneeling time for all those too

Have friends who are Black, gay disabled, women poor and none agree with this movement

Why didn't all Irish players do it when we were looked down upon, not long ago no blacks no Irish no dogs signs were all over England.

Because we moved on and use what happened our ancestors get us brownie points
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Your third para is an important point. At the time nobody took the knee for the Irish. But thank goodness that nonsense has gone. As for your friends of varied persuasions nowadays, I would prefer that they agreed with my point about BLM but you can't convince everyone.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Silly post.

Your third para is an important point. At the time nobody took the knee for the Irish. But thank goodness that nonsense has gone. As for your friends of varied persuasions nowadays, I would prefer that they agreed with my point about BLM but you can't convince everyone.
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BLM do matter all Lives do, what made me most against this was people who get aggressive when you say ALM or WLM which equally they do
 
Some good responses here, and I agree with most of them. Also pleasingly no bigotry or abuse neither. I really supported this at first. I suppose the message I was saying, was that I think that it has now lost its impact. Those who haven't got the message I believe will never et the message, and further taking the knee is unlikely to change them. I wonder what/when the end game is. Will we be taking the knee ad infinitum, or is there an end target in sight?

There will always be social injustices and valid social causes to back. Who ultimately decides which ones are worthy of our footballers to champion?
 
Halifax71 said:
Why the hell should people? It's a divisive cause - BLM is a divisive cause. Just because you disagree don't start taking the moral high ground. This is the while point. 👎
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The players kneeling are not kneeling for BLM, they dropped BLM and replaced it with "No room for racism" because people didn't like how it was divisive.

With that said, do you still take issue with the players kneeling?
 
O4tonygreen said:
Some good responses here, and I agree with most of them. Also pleasingly no bigotry or abuse neither. I really supported this at first. I suppose the message I was saying, was that I think that it has now lost its impact. Those who haven't got the message I believe will never et the message, and further taking the knee is unlikely to change them. I wonder what/when the end game is. Will we be taking the knee ad infinitum, or is there an end target in sight?

There will always be social injustices and valid social causes to back. Who ultimately decides which ones are worthy of our footballers to champion?
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I think it will be the end of this season. Can you manage till then?
 
LeedsSeasider said:
If I was black, I’d be absolutely doing the same. They’re using their platform, in front of the media to raise awareness that racism STILL somehow exists in 2020.

Your post just magnifies the fact that you don’t want to see it and you don’t want to see black players raise awareness to the fact that they’re STILL being racially abused by fans.

Booing the knee should be seen as racist in my view.
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There is racism about these days, not as much as the 70's or 80's, but what hasn't been pointed out is that racism goes both ways, white people do suffer from racism and as a white person I'd like to see the players kneeling before the game to end.
 
"(I) Have friends who are Black, gay disabled, women poor and none agree with this movement

Gay People have been fighting for equality for the last 40 years.......but they cant see what's happening with black footballers....... 🤔
Disabled people have organisations, legal rights to access every building......but they cant see what's happening with black footballers.....🤔
Poor people........Poor people???.......completely lost me on that one..........🤔
Women......They have been fighting for equality for 2000 years......never heard of suffragettes......🤔
Black people........cant see why BLM and taking the knee is important and what it's trying to achieve.......🤔

Ever read a book called Angela's Ashes (also a bit of a rubbish movie)........Lovely view of people from Limerick....I take it it's still like that???
 
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