A listening government?

TSSeasider

Well-known member
Not doing the 45p tax cut, a positive step for some, only worth £2bn; still the fundamental borrowing to cut tax remains.

Let's see the congratulations pour in for listening and acting accordingly.
 
Not doing the 45p tax cut, a positive step for some, only worth £2bn; still the fundamental borrowing to cut tax remains.

Let's see the congratulations pour in for listening and acting accordingly.
Assuming the reports are correct and bearing in mind Tory MPs were making it clear they would vote against that element of the package, I don’t think she had much choice.

Huge and humiliating climb down from what she was saying just last night and shame the Bank of England had to pledge to spend £65 billion to save insurance companies in the meantime.

Let’s wait and see whether £2bn in tax is enough to placate the markets or whether they want more.
 
A step in the right direction.

The backbench Tory MPs knew the optics of this cut were terrible especially when they are planning to trash environmental/employment regulations and cut welfare and public spending.

I'd imagine Kwarteng will be sacked in the not too distant future.
 
The pound has responded positvely - the City probably realise Truss is not going to last much longer.
 
Pleased there has been some movement.👍 Good. Throw in with that a new windfall tax on the energy producers, which would help balance the books a bit as well as shifting the political optics some more, and maybe we can move on a bit.
 
Pleased there has been some movement.👍 Good. Throw in with that a new windfall tax on the energy producers, which would help balance the books a bit as well as shifting the political optics some more, and maybe we can move on a bit.
A windfall tax would be a shrewd political move (pinching a popular Labour policy) as well as a shrewd economic move (reducing government borrowing). A different Tory leader would probably go for it but I doubt Truss will. Time will tell.
 
And we all put up with this crap because we can’t do anything about it.
Continual insults to those who fought for democracy.
 
A windfall tax would be a shrewd political move (pinching a popular Labour policy) as well as a shrewd economic move (reducing government borrowing). A different Tory leader would probably go for it but I doubt Truss will. Time will tell.
I don’t get the Tories fear about not applying windfall taxes on energy suppliers because of the concerns that it will slow down their investments in future development of alternative energies. So we give them £100billion+? that we the tax payer will have to pay back for generations to come and these suppliers still maintain their massive profit margins!
 
I don’t get the Tories fear about not applying windfall taxes on energy suppliers because of the concerns that it will slow down their investments in future development of alternative energies. So we give them £100billion+? that we the tax payer will have to pay back for generations to come and these suppliers still maintain their massive profit margins!
I think it’s an ideological thing. They just don’t like taxes.

But yes I agree with you.
 
A windfall tax would be a shrewd political move (pinching a popular Labour policy) as well as a shrewd economic move (reducing government borrowing). A different Tory leader would probably go for it but I doubt Truss will. Time will tell.

One analyst was saying last week that one of the biggest worries that market investors have about the mini budget is that all the costs of the energy policy went on to the tax payer, and high electricity and gas/oil costs could drag on for years.

Other Tory leaders might not have worked for Shell and had a 100k donation from an individual with previous very close links to BP.
 
I don’t get the Tories fear about not applying windfall taxes on energy suppliers because of the concerns that it will slow down their investments in future development of alternative energies. So we give them £100billion+? that we the tax payer will have to pay back for generations to come and these suppliers still maintain their massive profit margins!
it makes no sense what Truss says (but does anything) because the companies providing energy resources now are not the companies that will be providing sustainable energy resources in the future. Truss is simply giving the energy companies one last hurrah before significant change happens to the energy sector. IF anything a windfall tax could even be applied to traditional energy companies and then tax breaks given to sustainable energy companies. A traditional energy company could offset its windfall liabilities with sustainable tax breaks. The problem is that every tax incentive for sustainable across the whole of europe and the US has been very badly drafted and have caused significant problems for the energy companies and to energy security in general, No doubt a government would fuck it up by pandering to whatever group was backing them.

The tax reversal kind of proves they understand that tax reduction particularly at the top end does nothing for economic growth or investment, because if they DID believe it they would not have reversed the cut. The cut was simply a thankyou payment for Truss's backer or the condition they put on backing her. im back to my original hypothesis that a no confidence vote will happen in November. GE in end of January beginning of Feb
 
If I had had any faith in this government then a bit of it might have been restored but sadly this is just one colossal economy damaging calamity after another.
 
If I had had any faith in this government then a bit of it might have been restored but sadly this is just one colossal economy damaging calamity after another.
Yep. The reversal of policy, whilst welcome, is way too late for all those first time buyers who’ve had their mortgage offers withdrawn and who have now been priced out of the mortgage market.

Their only hope is for a fall in property prices which I suspect is on the cards.
 
Not doing the 45p tax cut, a positive step for some, only worth £2bn; still the fundamental borrowing to cut tax remains.

Let's see the congratulations pour in for listening and acting accordingly.
A humiliating climbdown after defending it to the hilt yesterday.

Fundamentally, it comes down to self preservation. She was elected by the Tory members, being seen as second to Sunak by the MPs. It's their vote she needs and plenty were saying she wasn't going to get that.

In effect, you're saying she wants praising for a reversal of a stupid decision that shouldn't have been made in the first place.
 
I don’t get the Tories fear about not applying windfall taxes on energy suppliers because of the concerns that it will slow down their investments in future development of alternative energies. So we give them £100billion+? that we the tax payer will have to pay back for generations to come and these suppliers still maintain their massive profit margins!
They could mandate energy companies to spend the windfall on R&D in this country or forfeit it in a windfall tax.
 
A humiliating climbdown after defending it to the hilt yesterday.

Fundamentally, it comes down to self preservation. She was elected by the Tory members, being seen as second to Sunak by the MPs. It's their vote she needs and plenty were saying she wasn't going to get that.

In effect, you're saying she wants praising for a reversal of a stupid decision that shouldn't have been made in the first place.
I agree with most of that.

Lets see how she/they sort out the rest of the odd decisions they have made in the last fortnight.

If it was me I'd do the following.

Leave tax rates where they are but raise all tax thresholds; say £15k, £60k, £150k
Scrap the proposed NI increases.
Change the taper of child benefit from £50k to £60k in line with the threshold - anyone with children currently earning £50k have a double whammy of losing the CB and paying the higher rate - so the marginal rate of tax is skewed at that point.
Introduce a £20/wk UC uplift. Most of that will be reinvested back into the economy anyway.
Special tax on excessive profits of the energy producers but took against a 5 year period to even out the Covid drop in profits.

That would be my starter for ten. I think it would be reasonable, stimulate a bit of growth and most of it wouldn't require borrowing against the future earnings of the UK.
 
It’s an embarrassing U turn.

It was Kamikaze Kwarteng now it’s I didn’t really mean what I said Kwarteng.

And this lady said she wasn’t for changing. 😂
 
It’s an embarrassing U turn.

It was Kamikaze Kwarteng now it’s I didn’t really mean what I said Kwarteng.

And this lady said she wasn’t for changing. 😂
I haven’t seen it but apparently the editorial in this morning’s Telegraph does actually use the phrase “The Lady is not for turning”. Ooops.
 
She's typical of the current crop of embarrassingly poor politicians - wants to show 'real' leadership by making big decisions badly, then holding out until inevitably having to climb down.
She didn't even consult the cabinet, so I wouldn't say she's a listener at all, just someone who thinks they're correct until they have to buckle under the overwhelming pressure of being shown they're wrong. The benefit cut (which essentially is what they're doing) is also scandalous.
 
She knew it wouldn't pass in the House of Commons. One day of Conference was enough for them to realise that, and after Jake Berry came out yesterday and declared a civil war by threatening suspension of any MP who voted against it, this was really the only option.

Interestingly the pound immediately jumped on the news. I'm sure that's something to do with Russia, or the Fed, or Keir Starmer though
 
Not doing the 45p tax cut, a positive step for some, only worth £2bn; still the fundamental borrowing to cut tax remains.

Let's see the congratulations pour in for listening and acting accordingly.
Youre joking I assume. Still listening to the Institute of Economic Affairs, Taxpayers Alliance and sundry other right wing free market " think tanks" with opaque funding
 
She's typical of the current crop of embarrassingly poor politicians - wants to show 'real' leadership by making big decisions badly, then holding out until inevitably having to climb down.
She didn't even consult the cabinet, so I wouldn't say she's a listener at all, just someone who thinks they're correct until they have to buckle under the overwhelming pressure of being shown they're wrong. The benefit cut (which essentially is what they're doing) is also scandalous.
Khasi Kwarteng today proposing cuts in real terms to public services of 18 billion by not increasing funding to allow for inflation. NHS really struggling now, but yes0 lets have a champagne party for mega rich " financiers".
 
Khasi Kwarteng today proposing cuts in real terms to public services of 18 billion by not increasing funding to allow for inflation. NHS really struggling now, but yes0 lets have a champagne party for mega rich " financiers".
Exactly. Benefits is always a great one to hit, as they like to perpetuate the myth that all people in receipt are lazy work dodgers or illegally claiming. The truth is this is a minority, when the majority really need them and many live hand to mouth. I don't particlarly like this sbloke, but what he says is correct on this occasion;
1664795532260.png
Trickle-down economics working well.
 
Exactly. Benefits is always a great one to hit, as they like to perpetuate the myth that all people in receipt are lazy work dodgers or illegally claiming. The truth is this is a minority, when the majority really need them and many live hand to mouth. I don't particlarly like this sbloke, but what he says is correct on this occasion;
View attachment 13169
Trickle-down economics working well.
Funnily enough that’s also the position of a lot of people on the RW in the US ie benefits are in effect a subsidy for what are essentially unprofitable businesses. So the taxpayer is picking up a salary cost that should be paid by the employer.
 
Not doing the 45p tax cut, a positive step for some, only worth £2bn; still the fundamental borrowing to cut tax remains.

Let's see the congratulations pour in for listening and acting accordingly.
My behind !! Absolute bunch of jokers a la Neil Critchley and Moan Utd !!
 
I haven’t seen it but apparently the editorial in this morning’s Telegraph does actually use the phrase “The Lady is not for turning”. Ooops.
It does. It's the headline, 'LIZ TRUSS IS NOT FOR TURNING' followed by 'Liz Truss is not a leader easily buffeted by events if she thinks she is right.....'
 
I agree with most of that.

Lets see how she/they sort out the rest of the odd decisions they have made in the last fortnight.

If it was me I'd do the following.

Leave tax rates where they are but raise all tax thresholds; say £15k, £60k, £150k
Scrap the proposed NI increases.
Change the taper of child benefit from £50k to £60k in line with the threshold - anyone with children currently earning £50k have a double whammy of losing the CB and paying the higher rate - so the marginal rate of tax is skewed at that point.
Introduce a £20/wk UC uplift. Most of that will be reinvested back into the economy anyway.
Special tax on excessive profits of the energy producers but took against a 5 year period to even out the Covid drop in profits.

That would be my starter for ten. I think it would be reasonable, stimulate a bit of growth and most of it wouldn't require borrowing against the future earnings of the UK.
Personally, I think most people had no issue with a ring fenced NI rise for the NHS. Agree with the rest.

As you say, the poorest will actually spend anything extra, and will benefit local economies.
 
Assuming the reports are correct and bearing in mind Tory MPs were making it clear they would vote against that element of the package, I don’t think she had much choice.

Huge and humiliating climb down from what she was saying just last night and shame the Bank of England had to pledge to spend £65 billion to save insurance companies in the meantime.

Let’s wait and see whether £2bn in tax is enough to placate the markets or whether they want more.
Reported 70 Tory MPs considering voting against the budget. Which meant Truss was dead in the water. This was listening to back bench revolt. She is holed below the water line.
 
Truss has already shown she'll do anything to save her own neck.The sooner this brain donor is removed from ANY position of authority the better.
 
Truss has already shown she'll do anything to save her own neck.The sooner this brain donor is removed from ANY position of authority the better.
She’s clearly out of her depth, but maybe it’s best she’s clings on until the next election, despite the short-term damage this will cause.
The alternative is a new Tory leader, a fifth prime minister in six years, a snappy three word slogan such as “Boris’ll fix it” that the gullible lemmings will no doubt fall for, and we’re back to square one for the next five years.
 
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