we're heading for a hung Parliament....

Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I’m worried at the end of the day Labour don’t have a plan on stopping this illegal immigration so it’s easy to dismiss it.
Click to expand...

I think their general line is some kind of returns agreement, along the lines of what was in place until 2020, however: Ireland’s blind hatred of Brexit has destroyed its borders. Starmer may do the same to ours

In the last year that we were covered by the EU’s returns scheme, 2020, it worked heavily against us. We tried to return 8,502 failed claimants to EU states, but they accepted only 105 (1.2 per cent). They, by contrast, sought to send 2,331 failed claimants here, and we accepted 882 (37.8 per cent).
 

Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I’m worried at the end of the day Labour don’t have a plan on stopping this illegal immigration so it’s easy to dismiss it.

Both Starmer and Yvette Cooper have both been on the box lately saying the Rwanda money should go towards stopping the gangs who are responsible for these people coming here.

I’m sorry but that has been going on for years already and has it stopped? Has it even slowed the flow down? Er no.

Now I’m not saying Rwanda is going to work because it won’t but Labour must have a clear plan on how they are going to shut the door on illegal immigration because right now they simply don’t have one and come the general election people are going to ask the same question.
Click to expand...
It hasn't stopped because it doesn't suit the Tories to stop them. This migration wave has rocketed under the current Government because they've deliberately cut all aspects of stopping it. That's by removing border force staff monitoring the Channel, taking years to process applications because of Home Office cuts, and closing detention centres in favour of massively over priced hotels and barges owned by donors.

We genuinely had nowhere near this influx prior to Brexit.

It's done deliberately as a deflection tactic.

www.gov.uk

Irregular migration to the UK, year ending June 2023

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
 
Wizaard said:
It hasn't stopped because it doesn't suit the Tories to stop them. This migration wave has rocketed under the current Government because they've deliberately cut all aspects of stopping it. That's by removing border force staff monitoring the Channel, taking years to process applications because of Home Office cuts, and closing detention centres in favour of massively over priced hotels and barges owned by donors.

We genuinely had nowhere near this influx prior to Brexit.

It's done deliberately as a deflection tactic.

www.gov.uk

Irregular migration to the UK, year ending June 2023

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
Click to expand...
What are you moaning about, you didn't think its an issue further up the thread but now you are using it as a stick to beat the Tories with

Make your mind up
 
Wizaard said:
Under the recent change to legislation, the Judgement Days wouldn't happen for starters. The right to protest is being eroded.

The rest of the world considers Rwanda to be unsafe because they are at war with neighbouring Congo. We passed legislation to say it is on the basis of political expediency. Oh, and the one person we sent there has already left after collecting the £3,000 bribe and disappeared to Nigeria. Great deterrent.

The so called leftie media harp on and on still about Rayner living in a house 15 years ago and ignore the hundreds of billions that have been extricated by friends and family of the current Government. Its a complete stitch up and deflection and the vast majority of the media play along with it.

The attempt to get out of ECHR is a blatant attempt to remove many hard won rights we currently have. Minimum wage, maximum hours. Freedom of movement. Freedom of everything basically.
Click to expand...
Any link to the guy sent to Rwanda who you say has gone missing? Haven't seen anything on that.

We have a proud history of human rights in this country and any suggestion we'd be taking away some fundamental rights is complete fantasy. It just wouldn't be accepted for one. Many big countries manage just fine outside of it.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I’m worried at the end of the day Labour don’t have a plan on stopping this illegal immigration so it’s easy to dismiss it.

Both Starmer and Yvette Cooper have both been on the box lately saying the Rwanda money should go towards stopping the gangs who are responsible for these people coming here.

I’m sorry but that has been going on for years already and has it stopped? Has it even slowed the flow down? Er no.

Now I’m not saying Rwanda is going to work because it won’t but Labour must have a clear plan on how they are going to shut the door on illegal immigration because right now they simply don’t have one and come the general election people are going to ask the same question.
Click to expand...
Labour will stop illegal immigration IMO.











They will make them all legal... 😏🙄
 
Wizaard said:
It hasn't stopped because it doesn't suit the Tories to stop them. This migration wave has rocketed under the current Government because they've deliberately cut all aspects of stopping it. That's by removing border force staff monitoring the Channel, taking years to process applications because of Home Office cuts, and closing detention centres in favour of massively over priced hotels and barges owned by donors.

We genuinely had nowhere near this influx prior to Brexit.

It's done deliberately as a deflection tactic.

www.gov.uk

Irregular migration to the UK, year ending June 2023

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
Click to expand...
How has it benefited the Tories not to stop illegal immigration, they are literally being slaughtered by their supporters for it and many have had enough and are considering going or have gone to Reform.

Makes absolutely no sense what you say.
 
JJpool said:
How has it benefited the Tories not to stop illegal immigration, they are literally being slaughtered by their supporters for it and many have had enough and are considering going or have gone to Reform.

Makes absolutely no sense what you say.
Click to expand...
It's a massive (sic) issue that they can say they are doing things about, but it's all the fault of the French. In reality, we happily take 750,000 students and the same again in overseas workers because they pay. What's 30,000 compared to that, that eventually are deemed successful asylum seekers anyway.

It's a distraction from the cost of living crisis that they've caused through a decade of disastrous policies.
 
JJpool said:
Any link to the guy sent to Rwanda who you say has gone missing? Haven't seen anything on that.

We have a proud history of human rights in this country and any suggestion we'd be taking away some fundamental rights is complete fantasy. It just wouldn't be accepted for one. Many big countries manage just fine outside of it.
Click to expand...
www.express.co.uk

First Rwanda migrant from UK not found at lavish tax-payer funded hotel

The first migrant sent from the UK to Rwanda under a new asylum programme is nowhere to be found in the African nation.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk

Proud history of human rights, so why leave the ECHR that we wrote?
 
Last edited:
Wizaard said:
It's a massive (sic) issue that they can say they are doing things about, but it's all the fault of the French. In reality, we happily take 750,000 students and the same again in overseas workers because they pay. What's 30,000 compared to that, that eventually are deemed successful asylum seekers anyway.

It's a distraction from the cost of living crisis that they've caused through a decade of disastrous policies.
Click to expand...
Right, so they've engineered a situation that'll get them absolutely slaughtered by their own supporters and lose an election, with the aim of distracting people.

A better plan would be to actually stop the boats and pump out positive PR about it, that would gain them far more support, so this makes absolutely no sense.

Another looney left conspiracy that doesn't even actually make any sense.

The cost of living was largely linked to inflation, from mainly coivid and the war and is now coming down. Covid lockowns and all associated harms would have been longer and worse under Labour, who wanted more and longer lockdowns.

The Conservatives have actually raised the minimum wage a good deal in recent years.
 
JJpool said:
A better plan would be to actually stop the boats and pump out positive PR about it, that would gain them far more support, so this makes absolutely no sense.
Click to expand...
And the reason they haven't stopped the boats is that the leftists have held up the one effective policy we can find in parliament and the courts for years.
 
Lost Seasider said:
And the reason they haven't stopped the boats is that the leftists have held up the one effective policy we can find in parliament and the courts for years.
Click to expand...
Well the policy had certainly been slowed down. I don't think it's the complete solution but appears to having some effect, when people said it would have zero.
 
JJpool said:
Well the policy had certainly been slowed down. I don't think it's the complete solution but appears to having some effect, when people said it would have zero.
Click to expand...
Ideally, I'd house them in camps on Dartmoor, saving however many billions of pounds per year, but the first plane load going back to Rwanda should have a massive effect on the numbers arriving by boat.
 
The irony of course is that all the posters berating "illegal immigrants" will continue to vote conservative yet continue to complain about this issue despite 14 years of utter chaos, billions and billions wasted on farcical policies.
 
seasideone said:
Not at all - the fact you cannot even split it up shows you lost the argument t as you now will answer every point!

If you doubt me, try me 👍
Click to expand...
I have, do you have difficulty concentrating? i apologise for overestinating your ability to keep your comments in your head.
 
seasideone said:
Ha ha - you should be apologising for your poor English skills.

I am a little dyslexic and do better than that mumbled rubbish you wrote 🤣
Click to expand...
Ah, sorry, must be tough for you. Next time I'll write it in very small words so you can understand.

Stiil, like I said earlier, excellent deflection to avoid answering the facts about the right wing extremism to which this Government is to attempting to subject the UK. Authoritarian, anti democratic and intolerant.

I could also say corrupt, but that is not a trait confined to right or left, despite these guys have achieved new levels
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Ah, sorry, must be tough for you. Next time I'll write it in very small words so you can understand.

Stiil, like I said earlier, excellent deflection to avoid answering the facts about the right wing extremism to which this Government is to attempting to subject the UK. Authoritarian, anti democratic and intolerant.

I could also say corrupt, but that is not a trait confined to right or left, despite these guys have achieved new levels
Click to expand...
So you still cannot put something in English that is simple, easy to read and makes sense.

Also, congratulations on having a go at someone’s disability - I bet it makes you feel so proud 👍
 
seasideone said:
So you still cannot put something in English that is simple, easy to read and makes sense.

Also, congratulations on having a go at someone’s disability - I bet it makes you feel so proud 👍
Click to expand...
What was your question again?

Where are the extreme right wing policies?

Ok. I’ll give it a go.

Attacks on the rule of law. As in, describing lawyers who represent clients whose cases you don’t agree with as “lefty lawyers”. And encouraging violence against them.

Attacks on an independent judiciary. As in describing judges as “the enemies of the people”.

Trying to unlawfully prorogue Parliament on the basis that democracy has become inconvenient. And then lying to the late queen about it.

Passing an Act of Parliament that instructs judges to ignore any evidence that might show Rwanda isn’t the land of milk and honey.

Preventing defendants in climate change cases from putting forward a full defence.

Or advocating leaving the ECHR because they don’t really believe in human rights when those rights stop them implementing whatever policies they deem fit.

Attacks on an independent media. See all the attacks on the BBC and some of their staff for impartial reporting.

Attacking freedom of speech and the right to protest. Describing marches that call for a ceasefire in Gaza as “hate marches”.

Condoning attacks on the police and the Cenotaph by describing them as “two tier policing”.

Refusing to accept the democratic decision of millions of voters in London because they decided to re-elect a Muslim as the mayor.

Describing everyone who claims benefits or uses a food bank as a scrounger.

Condoning the siphoning of millions of taxpayer monies into the pockets of cronies aka Michelle Mone.

And that’s without really giving it much thought.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
What was your question again?

Where are the extreme right wing policies?

Ok. I’ll give it a go.

Attacks on the rule of law. As in, describing lawyers who represent clients whose cases you don’t agree with as “lefty lawyers”. And encouraging violence against them.

Attacks on an independent judiciary. As in describing judges as “the enemies of the people”.

Trying to unlawfully prorogue Parliament on the basis that democracy has become inconvenient. And then lying to the late queen about it.

Passing an Act of Parliament that instructs judges to ignore any evidence that might show Rwanda isn’t the land of milk and honey.

Preventing defendants in climate change cases from putting forward a full defence.

Or advocating leaving the ECHR because they don’t really believe in human rights when those rights stop them implementing whatever policies they deem fit.

Attacks on an independent media. See all the attacks on the BBC and some of their staff for impartial reporting.

Attacking freedom of speech and the right to protest. Describing marches that call for a ceasefire in Gaza as “hate marches”.

Condoning attacks on the police and the Cenotaph by describing them as “two tier policing”.

Refusing to accept the democratic decision of millions of voters in London because they decided to re-elect a Muslim as the mayor.

Describing everyone who claims benefits or uses a food bank as a scrounger.

Condoning the siphoning of millions of taxpayer monies into the pockets of cronies aka Michelle Mone.

And that’s without really giving it much thought.
Click to expand...
Not a single one of them is a true extreme right wing policy or agenda!
 
seasideone said:
Not a single one of them is a true extreme right wing policy or agenda!
Click to expand...
Well the direction of travel is pretty clear on all of them. Straight out of the Putin, Orban, Meloni etc playbook.

Nobble an independent judiciary.

Nobble an independent media.

Close down freedom of speech.

Undermine democracy and the right to vote.

Steal taxpayers money to reward your cronies.

It’s not my fault your lot are as shit at that as they are everything else they try.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Well the direction of travel is pretty clear on all of them. Straight out of the Putin, Orban, Meloni etc playbook.

Nobble an independent judiciary.

Nobble an independent media.

Close down freedom of speech.

Undermine democracy and the right to vote.

Steal taxpayers money to reward your cronies.

It’s not my fault your lot are as shit at that as they are everything else they try.
Click to expand...
I am no fan of the current government (if you read my previous posts you will see) and I cannot imagine I will be voting for them under any circumstances.

I just hate the bollox both sides say about each other.

….and you are part of that problem, as non of the policies are extreme right.

Sorry if you don’t like that, but it’s true 👍
 
seasideone said:
So you still cannot put something in English that is simple, easy to read and makes sense.

Also, congratulations on having a go at someone’s disability - I bet it makes you feel so proud 👍
Click to expand...
You really are a piece of work. Criticising someone's literacy, then claiming the dyslexia card.
 
seasideone said:
Wow. All I asked you was to make it more readable!
Click to expand...
No, you make excuses for not answering the substantive points.

I have a very simple rule of thumb on here. Answer honestly on the points made. Your arrogance in instructing me to answer in a way you feel acceptable has lead to this exchange, and your unnecessary belittling of my literacy skills kept it going.

That's me out, if ypou cannot answer without abuse, your opinion is unworthy
 
Tangerinemoss said:
No, you make excuses for not answering the substantive points.

I have a very simple rule of thumb on here. Answer honestly on the points made. Your arrogance in instructing me to answer in a way you feel acceptable has lead to this exchange, and your unnecessary belittling of my literacy skills kept it going.

That's me out, if ypou cannot answer without abuse, your opinion is unworthy
Click to expand...
Wow, Its you have abused me 🤣 🤣 🤣

All I asked was you to make it readable for me.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
No, you make excuses for not answering the substantive points.

I have a very simple rule of thumb on here. Answer honestly on the points made. Your arrogance in instructing me to answer in a way you feel acceptable has lead to this exchange, and your unnecessary belittling of my literacy skills kept it going.

That's me out, if ypou cannot answer without abuse, your opinion is unworthy
Click to expand...
That's why I always try to proof-read what I write. It doesn't always come off, mind.
 
seasideone said:
Please provide evidence then, because if you look at the historical extreme right.

None get close.
Click to expand...

IMO you have lost this one.

Throughout history parties to the far right adopt tactics which include the following;
  • undermine the legitimate right to protest
  • attack and undermine the judiciary when they are not doing your bidding
  • ignore the law when expedient
  • create a compliant and obedient media
  • marginalise, victimise and dehumanise relatively powerless groups of people
  • make appeals to blind patriotism when all else fails
  • manufacture disputes with other countries to distract from failings
  • undermine and stigmatise relatively impartial institutions (National Trust, RNLI for instance)
I think unfortunately that we have seen all of these in recent years from the Conservative party.
And that to me is a worrying sign. Unabated these steps can lead to a sort of fascism (I don't think that will happen in the UK BTW), history tells us as much.
I wouldn't vote Conservative but would be quite happy to see a centerist, one nation, pragmatic Conservative government with community centered values and a sound economic approach. This is what Conservatism used to be about but often today it is almost the opposite of that (the economic disaster of Brexit for instance). We were admired the world over for our pragmatic and business friendly approach which has made us wealthy. We have trashed that reputation over the last 10 years or so and lurched into a kind of extremism.
 
seasideone said:
Please provide evidence then, because if you look at the historical extreme right.

None get close.
Click to expand...
I suspect you are focussing on the Nazis and Mussolini's fascists. However, there are many examples of extreme right wing behaviour, both by governments, non-govermental political parties and by pressure groups. The key to the nomenclature is the use of the word, extreme. In governmental terms it would apply to any acts or intentions to impose the will of the rulers on the population by undermining the rule of law and circumventing the democratic will of the people. That is, an intention to, (or to actually), impose one's will through the misuse of law or intimidation or both. Of course, such tactics are available to - and have been used - by the extremes of both left and right. In the case of the extreme right such autocratic rule is self-justified by an appeal to national greatness, the need for strong government through the imposition of punitive sanctions, the appeal to ethnic and racial purity and the myth of a historic utopia borne out of cultural and ethnic purity. It emphasises the exclusivity of 'us' at the expense of 'outsiders'. It is not inclusive or tolerant of other races, ethnic groups, cultures or forms of internal organisation (eg trades unions) that it sees as challenging to its principals or authority.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
IMO I think you have lost this one.

Throughout history parties to the far right adopt tactics which include the following;
  • undermine the legitimate right to protest
  • attack and undermine the judiciary when they are not doing your bidding
  • ignore the law when expedient
  • create a compliant and obedient media
  • marginalise, victimise and dehumanise relatively powerless groups of people
  • make appeals to blind patriotism when all else fails
  • manufacture disputes with other countries to distract from failings
  • undermine and stigmatise relatively impartial institutions (National Trust, RNLI for instance)
I think unfortunately that we have seen all of these in recent years from the Conservative party.
And that to me is a worrying sign. Unabated these steps can lead to a sort of fascism (I don't think that will happen in the UK BTW), history tells us as much.
I wouldn't vote Conservative but would be quite happy to see a centerist, one nation, pragmatic Conservative government with community centered values and a sound economic approach. This is what Conservatism used to be about but often today it is almost the opposite of that (the economic disaster of Brexit for instance). We were admired the world over for our pragmatic and business friendly approach which has made us wealthy. We have trashed that reputation over the last 10 years or so and lurched into a kind of extremism.
Click to expand...
Don’t worry you are entitled to be wrong 🤣🤣🤣

Didn’t you quote ‘Canceling HS2’ as extreme right earlier in this thread?

If not somebody did and that’s the issues I am pointing to - politicians and people are always trying to pigeon hole things in a shocking way, where they shouldn’t be!
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I suspect you are focussing on the Nazis and Mussolini's fascists. However, there are many examples of extreme right wing behaviour, both by governments, non-govermental political parties and by pressure groups. The key to the nomenclature is the use of the word, extreme. In governmental terms it would apply to any acts or intentions to impose the will of the rulers on the population by undermining the rule of law and circumventing the democratic will of the people. That is, an intention to, (or to actually), impose one's will through the misuse of law or intimidation or both. Of course, such tactics are available to - and have been used - by the extremes of both left and right. In the case of the extreme right such autocratic rule is self-justified by an appeal to national greatness, the need for strong government through the imposition of punitive sanctions, the appeal to ethnic and racial purity and the myth of a historic utopia borne out of cultural and ethnic purity. It emphasises the exclusivity of 'us' at the expense of 'outsiders'. It is not inclusive or tolerant of other races, ethnic groups, cultures or forms of internal organisation (eg trades unions) that it sees as challenging to its principals or authority.
Click to expand...
What are you on about? 🤣🤣🤣

Governments of all shape and size create laws and shape the judiciary.

The UK is the one of the most tolerant places on the planet - but you have to be in the UK LEGALLY!

Have you found the control c and v function?
 
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