Truss decides to drop save energy campaign

[Lala]

I listened to a debate on all of this rigmarole on radio 2 or maybe radio lancs on an a very stressful airport run last night ( superfluous information alert there ).
And academia and the public are confused about which way to go, and which way to advertise and publicise all of the conflicting dynamics. And the cost involved, educationally, financially and practically. And what is worth what, cost versus education, versus growth versus the cost of living crisis.
Bifster I do understand the point, and the general point about energy saving and timings because of energy shortages, trust me. But there are are so many differering integers thrown in the mix right now that one campaign profiling one integer throws so many more integers ( loving that word ) into the same pot that I am I unsure that promoting a campaign to restrict energy usage timings supports the same argument that continuing with the illuminations is valid, when it’s at a cost of millions of public funds potentially better spent.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

I listened to a debate on all of this rigmarole on radio 2 or maybe radio lancs on an a very stressful airport run last night ( superfluous information alert there ).
And academia and the public are confused about which way to go, and which way to advertise and publicise all of the conflicting dynamics. And the cost involved, educationally, financially and practically. And what is worth what, cost versus education, versus growth versus the cost of living crisis.
Bifster I do understand the point, and the general point about energy saving and timings because of energy shortages, trust me. But there are are so many differering integers thrown in the mix right now that one campaign profiling one integer throws so many more integers ( loving that word ) into the same pot that I am I unsure that promoting a campaign to restrict energy usage timings supports the same argument that continuing with the illuminations is valid, when it’s at a cost of millions of public funds potentially better spent.

‘Differing integers’

I think you (and ‘academia’) are possibly over complicating an extremely simple matter.

I’m not sure what your last sentence means?

The illuminations operate outside peak hours and will positively impact the exchequer… So I’m not sure where ‘public funds’ come into the equation ?

 

[Old_Laytonian]

This has confirmed what I have always thought the vast majority of the public are just thick and do need the Nanny State

 

[Lala]

‘Differing integers’

I think you (and ‘academia’) are possibly over complicating an extremely simple matter.

I’m not sure what your last sentence means?

The illuminations operate outside peak hours and will positively impact the exchequer… So I’m not sure where ‘public funds’ come into the equation ?

I’m not sure what my last sentence means now
I think everyone with a differing opinion to mine are complicating things though

I get it all completely and am over complicating it in my responses because I feel I’m being too basic in my original responses based on the feedback

And so on it goes. I’m bored of myself now

 

[Malced]

How callous can you get? If you've got money you're all right?

A true Tory

If you’ve got money you’re alright? I’m sure that’s your own warped imagination cos it’s nothing I said or alluded to.

Virtually everyone knows about this energy crisis. How couldn’t they?
If you don’t appreciate simple economics that’s your problem.
The whole nation is trying to save on energy bills primarily because the cost has gone up.
If you want this government you hate, to have to wipe your butt for you, or tell you what time of day it is, then that says more about you than it does them.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Maybe we just need to put it into Tory Speak

We need to….



TWEAK THE PEAK

DELAY YOUR COFFEY

 

[1966_and_all_that]

The best way to regulate use is not some simpletonian radio ad. It’s by price. We’re all price sensitive. The price increases have done more to change our energy habits than any banal cheesy government strapline could ever do.

Anyone who hasn’t already got the message must be simple. No amount of ‘simple’ messaging is gonna make any difference. Why should we run a national campaign just because some dullards out there. We can’t keep catering to the lowest IQ. It’s insulting and a waste of airspace and government funds.

There’s multiple 24hr rolling news channel coverage on this topic. We don’t need to supplement it for those who have been held in captivity in a gimp outfit in some basement for the last 18 months and have somehow escaped in the middle of an energy price crisis unbeknownst to them.

Winter is gonna be depressing enough without listening to that smug gravelly voiced radio guy spewing out boring tedious advice such as Hands Face Space.

What would it have been for this energy crisis?
Probably ‘Turn Down, Turn Off, Keep it Off’.
Oh Fuck off!!!

They’d be better going with my innovative campaign to speed-hoover in the dark. And I wouldn’t have wanted quite as much as £15m.

You're all heart aren't you?

 

[Malced]

You're all heart aren't you?

Grow up. This is about whether an ad campaign would be beneficial. Absolutely it wouldn’t because it’s the most well versed topic that’s gripped the nation across all walks of life for months and months. We’ve had rebates off the council.
Many on benefits have had two or more additional payments totalling hundreds of pounds. We have also just seen the first of our bill reductions for the £400 that’s going to be deducted from bills over the autumn/winter.
If anything, those with less money will have been more closely tuned into the price rises as it’s something that’s been a real worry.
I care that people get the help they need. But I don’t see a need to waste public funds to tell us something we already know.
We shouldn’t cater for those that don’t yet know about this energy crisis. If they don’t get it by now, no amount of simple government messaging is gonna help. Who are these imaginary people that don’t know? I suspect they don’t exist.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Grow up. This is about whether an ad campaign would be beneficial. Absolutely it wouldn’t because it’s the most well versed topic that’s gripped the nation across all walks of life for months and months. We’ve had rebates off the council.
Many on benefits have had two or more additional payments totalling hundreds of pounds. We have also just seen the first of our bill reductions for the £400 that’s going to be deducted from bills over the autumn/winter.
If anything, those with less money will have been more closely tuned into the price rises as it’s something that’s been a real worry.
I care that people get the help they need. But I don’t see a need to waste public funds to tell us something we already know.
We shouldn’t cater for those that don’t yet know about this energy crisis. If they don’t get it by now, no amount of simple government messaging is gonna help. Who are these imaginary people that don’t know? I suspect they don’t exist.

Out of interest, what would your top tips be then Malced?

And what is it that you think people should know?

 

[bollieboy]

Out of interest, what would your top tips be then Malced?

And what is it that you think people should know?

Wonder how many people know the most efficent flow temperature setting for condensing boilers ? I didn't until reading up on it today and have now reset it. The data indicates that that alone could save 5 to 8% of central heating cost. A useful contribution I'd say.

 

[Wizaard]

Oh the SNP are 100 per cent ideologues.

But you can't argue that they've a mandate earned through the ballot box.

 

[Wizaard]

If you’ve got money you’re alright? I’m sure that’s your own warped imagination cos it’s nothing I said or alluded to.

Virtually everyone knows about this energy crisis. How couldn’t they?
If you don’t appreciate simple economics that’s your problem.
The whole nation is trying to save on energy bills primarily because the cost has gone up.
If you want this government you hate, to have to wipe your butt for you, or tell you what time of day it is, then that says more about you than it does them.

There are millions out there who don't understand simple economics.

Just look in the trolley of the person in front of you at the checkout, and the volume of deliveroo, just eat etc out there.

 

[Malced]

Wonder how many people know the most efficent flow temperature setting for condensing boilers ? I didn't until reading up on it today and have now reset it. The data indicates that that alone could save 5 to 8% of central heating cost. A useful contribution I'd say.

absolutely.
you discovered this not via a government backed simple ad campaign, but because this is a 'hot topic' and has been for many many months.

 

[Malced]

There are millions out there who don't understand simple economics.

Just look in the trolley of the person in front of you at the checkout, and the volume of deliveroo, just eat etc out there.

I wasn't asking for the general public to understand simple economics. I was replying to the poster who said that I was callous because I said our energy usage is price sensitive in that when the costs have gone higher we have acted to save energy such as not putting on the heating unless absolutely necessary, switching off lights when not needed etc etc
Other small tips to save energy have been recounted to us time and time and time again via the media.
But my point was regardless of messaging from the government or media, what really changes habits more than anything is when we feel it in our pockets. We've become complacent after generations of cheap energy. Now its become expensive we are seeing folk take matters inti their own hands and change behaviour.
With most of the country taking small steps to cut back on wasteful energy use, that in turn will help mitigate against any potential for the lights going out over the winter which in itself is very unlikely unless we see a series of unfortunate events coinciding.

 

[Malced]

Out of interest, what would your top tips be then Malced?

And what is it that you think people should know?

This is about the government deciding against a campaign to encourage us to save energy. We don't need such a campaign because were already finding ways to save energy, and there's no immediate threat of domestic energy disruption.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

absolutely.
you discovered this not via a government backed simple ad campaign, but because this is a 'hot topic' and has been for many many months.

There’s a few different things going on here though Malced.

1. Individual people want to reduce their costs.

2. Collectively we benefit from reduced consumption, due to reduced subsidy.

3. Collectively we benefit by shifting consumption outside peak times. (Increased Bandwidth,Risk of Powercuts Reduced, Market Price Falls, Economy Protected etc..)

So regardless of what we might think about the Ill informed, it pays to inform them.

It’s also possible that individuals who may not be motivated to ‘save cost’ might be motivated to contribute to a collective effort to help society.

So it’s in our collective interest and the government interest that everyone fully appreciates, not only the impact on them as individuals, but also share a sense of collective responsibility.

It’s also easy to assume that what appears straightforward to a well educated middle aged bloke might be as straightforward for everyone.

Beyond the cost (which is insignificant vs the benefit) there really isn’t any reason not to adopt a sensible and straightforward campaign.

I just don’t get why people object at all.

 

[Malced]

There’s a few different things going on here though Malced.

1. Individual people want to reduce their costs.

2. Collectively we benefit from reduced consumption, due to reduced subsidy.

3. Collectively we benefit by shifting consumption outside peak times. (Increased Bandwidth,Risk of Powercuts Reduced, Market Price Falls, Economy Protected etc..)

So regardless of what we might think about the Ill informed, it pays to inform them.

It’s also possible that individuals who may not be motivated to ‘save cost’ might be motivated to contribute to a collective effort to help society.

So it’s in our collective interest and the government interest that everyone fully appreciates, not only the impact on them as individuals, but also share a sense of collective responsibility.

It’s also easy to assume that what appears straightforward to a well educated middle aged bloke might be as straightforward for everyone.

Beyond the cost (which is insignificant vs the benefit) there really isn’t any reason not to adopt a sensible and straightforward campaign.

I just don’t get why people object at all.

1&2 are already happening
3 is not necessary as there's no pressure on supplies at present. There's no need to be putting on washing machines at night as of yet
we are better placed than most of europe as we've not been as reliant on gas from russia. We also have a good mix of energy sources.

there really is very little to be educated about at this stage

such educational messaging if ever needed would be more 'powerful' and effective if delivered just-in-time

if there was a need to change behaviour now, beyond the steps we're already taking, to head off a blackout then we would be hearing about it make no mistake. but there isn't. there was rightly the consideration of a worst case scenario which was reported on yesterday. it's very unlikely over the winter ahead, but if we faced it we would hear much much more meaningful focused steps we could all take in parallel to the business sector taking steps.

a general broad brush public messaging campaign at this time would have to be simple and basic and would surely only be covering ground most of us have heard via the press.

we don't need micro managing. it will take care of itself for now. energy is costing more. generally we are tightening our belts on energy use. we can't cater for the small percent that choose to carry on regardless or who aren't receptive to messaging for whatever reason.

the other thing that might be in play here is the wider behavioural effect and the link to economic activity. a government campaign inferring that energy may dry up could lead to many reigning in things that they would otherwise have done. it could cast pessimism over people, scare people, and we could start going back into our comfort zones and our shells like we did during covid. It only takes slight changes and we might tip into recession just when we can least afford to.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Grow up. This is about whether an ad campaign would be beneficial. Absolutely it wouldn’t because it’s the most well versed topic that’s gripped the nation across all walks of life for months and months. We’ve had rebates off the council.
Many on benefits have had two or more additional payments totalling hundreds of pounds. We have also just seen the first of our bill reductions for the £400 that’s going to be deducted from bills over the autumn/winter.
If anything, those with less money will have been more closely tuned into the price rises as it’s something that’s been a real worry.
I care that people get the help they need. But I don’t see a need to waste public funds to tell us something we already know.
We shouldn’t cater for those that don’t yet know about this energy crisis. If they don’t get it by now, no amount of simple government messaging is gonna help. Who are these imaginary people that don’t know? I suspect they don’t exist.

Malted, it's about reassurance. Everyo e likes a bit of reassurance and nobody's too arrogant to dismiss it. Yourself excepted.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

1&2 are already happening
3 is not necessary as there's no pressure on supplies at present. There's no need to be putting on washing machines at night as of yet
we are better placed than most of europe as we've not been as reliant on gas from russia. We also have a good mix of energy sources.

there really is very little to be educated about at this stage

such educational messaging if ever needed would be more 'powerful' and effective if delivered just-in-time

if there was a need to change behaviour now, beyond the steps we're already taking, to head off a blackout then we would be hearing about it make no mistake. but there isn't. there was rightly the consideration of a worst case scenario which was reported on yesterday. it's very unlikely over the winter ahead, but if we faced it we would hear much much more meaningful focused steps we could all take in parallel to the business sector taking steps.

a general broad brush public messaging campaign at this time would have to be simple and basic and would surely only be covering ground most of us have heard via the press.

we don't need micro managing. it will take care of itself for now. energy is costing more. generally we are tightening our belts on energy use. we can't cater for the small percent that choose to carry on regardless or who aren't receptive to messaging for whatever reason.

Of course there’s pressure on supply… The system is as tight as it’s ever been (both Gas & Power).

It wouldn’t take much at all right now for us to find ourselves in the position where a couple of outages result in the need for power cuts…

Regardless however, the lack of bandwidth (particularly at peak times) creates stress in the system and bullish pressure on the market price. So it’s a big problem regardless of whether we see a physical impact like power cuts or not.

 

[Malced]

Malted, it's about reassurance. Everyo e likes a bit of reassurance and nobody's too arrogant to dismiss it. Yourself excepted.

it could have the opposite effect and scare people.

 

[Malced]

well, I'm off to bed so we'll have to agree to disagree. though no electric blanket for me tonight. can't afford it.

 

[bollieboy]

absolutely.
you discovered this not via a government backed simple ad campaign, but because this is a 'hot topic' and has been for many many months.

As BFCx3 said I am a reasonably well educated older male with time on my hands. If I didn't have access to the internet, was working full-time, not particularly technically minded, etc I doubt whether I would have been aware.

You don't seem able to put yourself in the shoes of other people who aren't in the same situation as yourself.

 

[Tangerinemoss]

If you’ve got money you’re alright? I’m sure that’s your own warped imagination cos it’s nothing I said or alluded to.

Virtually everyone knows about this energy crisis. How couldn’t they?
If you don’t appreciate simple economics that’s your problem.
The whole nation is trying to save on energy bills primarily because the cost has gone up.
If you want this government you hate, to have to wipe your butt for you, or tell you what time of day it is, then that says more about you than it does them.

You said :

The best way to regulate use is not some simpletonian radio ad. It’s by price.

Please explain how that does not equate to saying that if you can afford higher prices you are alright, and if you cannot, you cannot use electricity. And if you could do it without the insults, that would be a bonus.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

You said :

Please explain how that does not equate to saying that if you can afford higher prices you are alright, and if you cannot, you cannot use electricity. And if you could do it without the insults, that would be a bonus.

Price is a terrible ‘driver’ in this case anyway… It may ‘force’ people to reduce usage (some people anyway), but it disproportionately affects the vulnerable and puts at least some in a potentially dangerous situation.

It’s far better that people are informed and that everyone (even those who can afford) share an understanding / responsibility to do their bit.

 

[Malced]

You said :

Please explain how that does not equate to saying that if you can afford higher prices you are alright, and if you cannot, you cannot use electricity. And if you could do it without the insults, that would be a bonus.

If you don't want insults, then don't open up our interaction with them. You set the tone. You opened up calling me callous and a True Tory. Did you expect a respectful reply after that? Well, respect is a two-way street.

There's nothing you've copied and pasted that equate to me saying if you're rich you're ok. I stand by what I said, about the best way to regulate usage is inevitably going to be the price.

What you're describing is the situation. Fuel is dearer and those with money won't be as price-sensitive to it. Those with little money will be hard hit. That's the situation. I'm in control of lots of things in my life. but I don't control the world energy crisis. You can't attribute the unfairness of the situation to me.

I was talking about the advertising campaign. I don't see how £15m of basic messaging would make any difference to anyone when it's the biggest news story that's been running for a long time, and will continue to run. All are aware that gas and electric are more expensive. They see it in their bills. They don't need to be told to turn off things that use electric. They're already doing it.

 

[Malced]

Price is a terrible ‘driver’ in this case anyway… It may ‘force’ people to reduce usage (some people anyway), but it disproportionately affects the vulnerable and puts at least some in a potentially dangerous situation.

It’s far better that people are informed and that everyone (even those who can afford) share an understanding / responsibility to do their bit.

Price is a terrible driver but it is what it is. Sorry but the price is higher so that inevitably leads to behavioural change. That's fact terrible or not.
My view is that people are more than informed already.

 

[Malced]

As BFCx3 said I am a reasonably well educated older male with time on my hands. If I didn't have access to the internet, was working full-time, not particularly technically minded, etc I doubt whether I would have been aware.

You don't seem able to put yourself in the shoes of other people who aren't in the same situation as yourself.

I get people form all walks of life in my taxi every day. One of the big talking points they have after the weather, are energy prices. So I think I'm very well in touch with others, and a wide cross-section of the community, and what their worries are. I am probably in touch with others more than most.

I get a disproportionate amount of poorer people eg on benefits as they need to use taxis to get about to their appointments or the shops etc. Believe me, they're well aware of their energy costs and don't need to be told to think about switching off their central heating and instead putting on a cardigan. They're already doing it. They've already had the higher bills. They already have been tightening their belts. They don't need to be patronised and told to turn off a light in a room they're not using.

I'm curious at to what basic information you'd find helpful that isn't already common knowledge which you would get from a very small limited generic population-wide comms campaign. You're not gonna glean technical advice from a simple government campaign.

 

[td53]

It's a miniscule amount of public spending and presumably would give people some reliable information instead of the sort of copy and pasted stuff you get in the papers or those 10 ways to save...' articles online that are often just affiliate links to Amazon.

What I find bizarre is the same wing of politics derides people for 'listening to the press and their lies and agenda' and then says 'no, we don't need any public information because we've got the press'

 

[Wizaard]

There’s a few different things going on here though Malced.

1. Individual people want to reduce their costs.

2. Collectively we benefit from reduced consumption, due to reduced subsidy.

3. Collectively we benefit by shifting consumption outside peak times. (Increased Bandwidth,Risk of Powercuts Reduced, Market Price Falls, Economy Protected etc..)

So regardless of what we might think about the Ill informed, it pays to inform them.

It’s also possible that individuals who may not be motivated to ‘save cost’ might be motivated to contribute to a collective effort to help society.

So it’s in our collective interest and the government interest that everyone fully appreciates, not only the impact on them as individuals, but also share a sense of collective responsibility.

It’s also easy to assume that what appears straightforward to a well educated middle aged bloke might be as straightforward for everyone.

Beyond the cost (which is insignificant vs the benefit) there really isn’t any reason not to adopt a sensible and straightforward campaign.

I just don’t get why people object at all.

It's now clear why not. Truss hates 'the collective' responsibility.

Plus she's a lickspittle for energy companies who dont want us to see us cut consumption, of course.

No encouragement to cut energy needs, no windfall tax = place on the Board at Shell in 2 years time when she's out on her ear.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Price is a terrible driver but it is what it is. Sorry but the price is higher so that inevitably leads to behavioural change. That's fact terrible or not.
My view is that people are more than informed already.

Plenty are not informed and the rest are likely not as informed as they’d like to think.

Anyway it is what it is… She’s already cost us billions with her Ill timed / rash policy making, so expecting the daft cow to make competent decisions is pissing in the wind.

Can’t organise her cabinet into a cohesive unit, never mind the country.

Let’s face it… she’s on borrowed time already

 

[Malced]

It's a miniscule amount of public spending and presumably would give people some reliable information instead of the sort of copy and pasted stuff you get in the papers or those 10 ways to save...' articles online that are often just affiliate links to Amazon.

What I find bizarre is the same wing of politics derides people for 'listening to the press and their lies and agenda' and then says 'no, we don't need any public information because we've got the press'

You can’t have it both ways. As you well know, everything the government does or doesn’t do will be criticised.

If they had spent money on the campaign we’d have seen the left complaining about waste of money and patronising and insulting messages. It would have led to accusations of contacts to their rich cronies.

People see every story with bias and their own political prejudices. It’s quite evident on hear.

So let’s no pretend that’s just an issue with one end of the political spectrum.

 

[Malced]

Plenty are not informed and the rest are likely not as informed as they’d like to think.

Anyway it is what it is… She’s already cost is billions with her Ill timed / rash policy making, so expecting the daft cow to make competent decisions is pissing in the wind.

Can’t organise her cabinet into a cohesive unit, never mind the country.

Let’s face it… she’s on borrowed time already

And that sums up what this was all about. An opportunity to have a go at the PM based on political allegiances.

I agree she’s been crap so far. But it isn’t going to cloud my judgement on her every move. She’s done some good things such as the energy help we’re all being given.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

And that sums up what this was all about. An opportunity to have a go at the PM based on political allegiances.

I agree she’s been crap so far. But it isn’t going to cloud my judgement on her every move. She’s done some good things such as the energy help we’re all being given.

I voted Tory in every election I’ve ever voted in.

 

[td53]

You can’t have it both ways. As
You well know, everything the government does or doesn’t do will be criticised.

If they had spent money on the campaign we’d have seen the left complaining about waste of money and patronising and insulting messages. It would have. It would have been accusations of contacts to their rich cronies.

People see every story with bias and their own political prejudices. It’s quite evident on hear.

So let’s no pretend that’s just an issue with one end of the political spectrum.

That's a complete non answer. You've just replied with some generalised fluff. The right (and indeed the extreme left) do indeed both blame the mainstream media for "false news, lies and agenda"

We don't have a far left government and thus I'm intrigued by the mixed messages of the *actual government* who will blame the papers on one hand for being biased and lying and having an agenda but now are arguing that in the biggest existential issue facing us this year, we should all rely on those exact same organs.

Mumbling "hmmmph Corbyn, what about lefties, we're all the same or something" doesn't distract from the fact that the position is inconsistent and frankly odd. Corbyn is an oddball too as are a lot of Labour members but they're not the *actual prime minister* are they?

 

[spudgun]

Plenty are not informed and the rest are likely not as informed as they’d like to think.

That is the most sensible line in this discussion, and the reason why spending a relatively small amount (in the scale of things) is on balance probably a good idea.

Resorting to allegations of imbedded political allegiance is the weakest of retorts in this instance...

 

[Malced]

That's a complete non answer. You've just replied with some generalised fluff. The right (and indeed the extreme left) do indeed both blame the mainstream media for "false news, lies and agenda"

We don't have a far left government and thus I'm intrigued by the mixed messages of the *actual government* who will blame the papers on one hand for being biased and lying and having an agenda but now are arguing that in the biggest existential issue facing us this year, we should all rely on those exact same organs.

Mumbling "hmmmph Corbyn, what about lefties, we're all the same or something" doesn't distract from the fact that the position is inconsistent and frankly odd. Corbyn is an oddball too as are a lot of Labour members but they're not the *actual prime minister* are they?

You’ve taken a discussion about the benefit of a public info campaign to save energy, and turned into a debate about the merits and impartiality of the mainstream media.

There’s a separate discussion about bias in the mainstream media. That’s for sure. But conflating this topic with that wholly different debate is pointless and not helpful.

You can’t draw a parallel with the BBC doing a slot on how to save energy, with their controlling of a narrative to suit their beliefs around something clearly political such as Brexit for example.

I don’t at all see what your problem is with the very helpful information we’ve been saturated with over many months on how to save energy.

Any top ten list or anything of that ilk has helped. But now it’s well known. I’m not sure how wrong you think such a list can be, or why you need it to be from an ‘official’ source such as the government in order for it to be helpful or trusted.

Many people have zero or low trust in the government so automatically tune out to what they say. You seem to have some issue with articles that have links to Amazon or whatever. But it’s advertising that helps our media outlets do their thing. If you think you’re top ten list would be so corrupted by a media outlet trying to sell you something then that’s perhaps your extreme distrust.

But if on a list there’s advice to switch to energy saving lightbulbs, and a convenient link into Amazon to purchase these, then I’m ok with that. Many would find it helpful.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

That is the most sensible line in this discussion, and the reason why spending a relatively small amount (in the scale of things) is on balance probably a good idea.

Resorting to allegations of imbedded political allegiance is the weakest of retorts in this instance...

I don’t really have a political allegiance these days. I can just spot an idiot when I see one (it comes with age )

She has less charisma than Theresa May, combined with being more of a buffoon and less credible than Boris.

 

[Malced]

That is the most sensible line in this discussion, and the reason why spending a relatively small amount (in the scale of things) is on balance probably a good idea.

Resorting to allegations of imbedded political allegiance is the weakest of retorts in this instance...

What is it you want to be told by the government? I genuinely don’t see an information gap for all the reasons I’ve already given.

It’s not a rich v poor thing.

You couldn’t have greater public awareness in my opinion than we already have.

Your previous message was all about truss and how she won’t last etc. so you’re the one making it political.

I don’t see why folk are so exorcised about this small story when a) we don’t have an impending need to reduce energy usage despite what you say, or b) the public are incredibly aware how much their energy is costing them and have been adapting their usage

There is no more to say. We won’t convince each other. So let’s leave it at that.

 

[spudgun]

Your previous message was all about truss and how she won’t last etc. so you’re the one making it political.

Sorry, what previous message? You seen a little confused.

And, like BFC, I have no political allegiance....

 

[Malced]

Sorry, what previous message? You seen a little confused.

And, like BFC, I have no political allegiance....

Sorry I meant to reply to BFC

 

[traffordtang]

As I say maybe people are missing the point here. It isn’t about ‘Saving Money’, it’s about reducing system demand at key times of the day.

The ‘target audience’ is everyone

Surely the target audience should be those who can afford to use it. They’re the people most likely to carry on regardless. I wonder how many of those who have heated swimming pools have cut back for the greater good. I suspect that purely by virtue of not being able to afford it once again it’s those of us lower down the chain who will be making the greatest sacrifices

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

What is it you want to be told by the government? I genuinely don’t see an information gap for all the reasons I’ve already given.

It’s not a rich v poor thing.

You couldn’t have greater public awareness in my opinion than we already have.

Your previous message was all about truss and how she won’t last etc. so you’re the one making it political.

I don’t see why folk are so exorcised about this small story when a) we don’t have an impending need to reduce energy usage despite what you say, or b) the public are incredibly aware how much their energy is costing them and have been adapting their usage

There is no more to say. We won’t convince each other. So let’s leave it at that.

Malced, there’s currently all sorts of misinformation out there. Dodgy products claiming to heat homes for next to nothing, bad advice about heating individual rooms etc…

We have a responsibility to our elderly and vulnerable… You’re seemingly fixated on yourself and your own egoic / macho ability to know it all…

“If they’re not as good as me, then fuck ‘em” etc…

I don’t get it … what do you gain?

 

[td53]

You’ve taken a discussion about the benefit of a public info campaign to save energy, and turned into a debate about the merits and impartiality of the mainstream media.

There’s a separate discussion about bias in the mainstream media. That’s for sure. But conflating this topic with that wholly different debate is pointless and not helpful.

You can’t draw a parallel with the BBC doing a slot on how to save energy, with their controlling of a narrative to suit their beliefs around something clearly political such as Brexit for example.

I don’t at all see what your problem is with the very helpful information we’ve been saturated with over many months on how to save energy.

Any top ten list or anything of that ilk has helped. But now it’s well known. I’m not sure how wrong you think such a list can be, or why you need it to be from an ‘official’ source such as the government in order for it to be helpful or trusted.

Many people have zero or low trust in the government so automatically tune out to what they say. You seem to have some issue with articles that have links to Amazon or whatever. But it’s advertising that helps our media outlets do their thing. If you think you’re top ten list would be so corrupted by a media outlet trying to sell you something then that’s perhaps your extreme distrust.

But if on a list there’s advice to switch to energy saving lightbulbs, and a convenient link into Amazon to purchase these, then I’m ok with that. Many would find it helpful.

I haven't changed the debate. I've simply pointed out a degree of contradictory thinking regards the govt assertion that people should use the media to inform themselves (they're either egenda driven peddlars of false news or they're not - they can't be both the friend AND enemy of commonsense and truth)

That's all I've got to offer. No agenda, no ideological point. Just pointing out a simply logical inconsistency.

 

[Malced]

I haven't changed the debate. I've simply pointed out a degree of contradictory thinking regards the govt assertion that people should use the media to inform themselves (they're either egenda driven peddlars of false news or they're not - they can't be both the friend AND enemy of commonsense and truth)

That's all I've got to offer. No agenda, no ideological point. Just pointing out a simply logical inconsistency.

Of course they can be more than one thing. It’s not either or. They can pass on a useful public message to wash your hands and stay indoors unless essential yet still have political bias during their election coverage. So you’re logic is flawed imho.

 

[Tangerinemoss]

Price is a terrible ‘driver’ in this case anyway… It may ‘force’ people to reduce usage (some people anyway), but it disproportionately affects the vulnerable and puts at least some in a potentially dangerous situation.

It’s far better that people are informed and that everyone (even those who can afford) share an understanding / responsibility to do their bit.

Spot on Bifster, something Malced seems to ignore

 

[Foolweary]

This story isn't the story, it's what behind the story that matters.

The parliamentary tories have had a leader forced upon them by the party membership. Its clear she has no support from the Tory MPs for her ideological agenda. Her ideology has no popular support in the country.

This story is the very first of many, every common sense move by the MPs will get kaiboshed by an extremely unpopular PM because its contrary to her ideology, every extreme abusive rampant free market move by the leader will fail to get support in Parliament.

Shes already toast, sooner or later we are gonna get an early election.

 

[Malced]

Spot on Bifster, something Malced seems to ignore

How have I ignored it when I’ve explicitly commented on it?

It might be terrible to you but it’s factual. So your feelings matter not one jot when it comes to fact and economics.
Price influences usage. It’s not my fault the price has been high. When prices are high people will take more care with their usage. When prices were cheap, people were more relaxed about their usage.

That’s how it goes. I can see why someone would say high prices are terrible. No one wants high prices for the reasons already stated. But it’s not terrible of me to point out that’s we don’t need to be told to be more careful with energy, because in reality people are changing behaviour due to the high prices.

So instead of your little tag team with biffy or bifster or whatever pet name you have for him, why don’t you read back and you’ll see I’ve specifically addressed his comment already. That’s not the definition of ignoring something is it Tangybabes?

 

[Tangerinemoss]

The best way to regulate use is not some simpletonian radio ad. It’s by price.

You said that very clearly. In your opinion, the best way to regulate use is price. No mention of any world issues, or caveats about it being unfair.

The best way for whom? Certainly not those struggling to pay for their energy even before the last price increase. Increased price means they cannot afford the basic level anyone in a civilised country should be able to access. Sure, it might reduce the use when they die, or end up in hospital with hypothermia or chest infections.

 

[Malced]

Malced, there’s currently all sorts of misinformation out there. Dodgy products claiming to heat homes for next to nothing, bad advice about heating individual rooms etc…

We have a responsibility to our elderly and vulnerable… You’re seemingly fixated on yourself and your own egoic / macho ability to know it all…

“If they’re not as good as me, then fuck ‘em” etc…

I don’t get it … what do you gain?

You are making it up as you go along. I asked what specifically you want a simple comms campaign to communicate. It was meant to be to encourage us to use less remember, before it was pulled.

That’s all it would have covered. A country wide campaign would need to be simple to be effective. But in your head now it’s some specific message for the elderly to avoid them being scammed. What a load of confused tosh.

As far as what I know, I’ve explained, that’s not the point. The point is nigh on everyone, especially the poorest, are well aware of the cost of energy at the moment. I speak to many people every day. Believe me they know they need to keep their heating off as much as poss and not to waste energy. But you want some patronising message cos you think they are so clueless they don’t know how to turn off a light.

Oh yeah but don’t forget we need ads to scare the elderly about scammers. Good one. Try running that idea past number 10. It’s a real winner.

 

[Malced]

You said that very clearly. In your opinion, the best way to regulate use is price. No mention of any world issues, or caveats about it being unfair.

The best way for whom? Certainly not those struggling to pay for their energy even before the last price increase. Increased price means they cannot afford the basic level anyone in a civilised country should be able to access. Sure, it might reduce the use when they die, or end up in hospital with hypothermia or chest infections.

I’ve covered this on various posts and directly replied to BFC about it. Absolutely the way that usage is being regulated is due to price. That’s why we don’t need an advert to tell us to reduce usage. I don’t get why you can’t see that. The consequences of the prices being high are another issue albeit very much related. That’s what you seem to be getting hung up on.

That’s a different issue to whether an ad is useful or not. You then come out with that emotive stuff about people dying of hypothermia. Well that’s why the government has stepped in to help keep
prices down for all, and provide extra help for the most needy.