The Crossing ITV

Shandypants

Well-known member
Just watching this about people (migrants) crossing the channel on boats. Its tracked the path of a 21 year old Kurdish man who died when the boat sank. Firstly I found it quite moving as he was younger than my own son, he is a brother and son and the family will never recover. Secondly it appears that Kurds make up a large proportion of people in Calais trying to get across. A people who have been allies to the west and have been let down time and time again. The programme showed how these are real, decent people not the demons portrayed by the press. The tory Party have become obsessed by migrants, Patel, Braverman and Johnson repeatedly shown on the documentary stating the need to break up the criminal smuggling gangs, highlighting exploitation of vulnerable people. I'll flip this and say its the tories who are exploiting vulnerable people, who continually portray them as the bogeyman. The programme showed a single Kurd mother with three children who also died on the boat. Anyone should have the right to a better life, Europeans historically flocked to the US and Australia for such!
 
Just watching this about people (migrants) crossing the channel on boats. Its tracked the path of a 21 year old Kurdish man who died when the boat sank. Firstly I found it quite moving as he was younger than my own son, he is a brother and son and the family will never recover. Secondly it appears that Kurds make up a large proportion of people in Calais trying to get across. A people who have been allies to the west and have been let down time and time again. The programme showed how these are real, decent people not the demons portrayed by the press. The tory Party have become obsessed by migrants, Patel, Braverman and Johnson repeatedly shown on the documentary stating the need to break up the criminal smuggling gangs, highlighting exploitation of vulnerable people. I'll flip this and say its the tories who are exploiting vulnerable people, who continually portray them as the bogeyman. The programme showed a single Kurd mother with three children who also died on the boat. Anyone should have the right to a better life, Europeans historically flocked to the US and Australia for such!
I watched it.

What I find fascinating is that for all we are continually tools that Britain is shit, they were saying that it's the best place to go and risk their lives and livelihoods coming here.

I agree, we are a fabulous country and if I was in their position, I'd head here rather than stay in France.

The wider point

We have a problem with the need to mix up economic migration with fleeing persecution.

I once upset Tony Blair when he was PM on this matter. The moment we talked about a global economy, we, by definition created a global workforce - but we never put a system in place which recognises and facilitates it (and I'm talking about non-EU countries).

It won't affect the Professor of Engineering - who are always welcome but will affect those people headed into retail or other less skilled roles.

As a result, they need to claim asylum, which it isn't - breaking the system for people genuinely fleeing persecution - which do exist and I've helped plenty in my career.

And that means crossing the channel.

It also means it's dangerously easy to demonise all of them which isn't helpful.

We should have worked better in other places, to facilitate work visas, but which do not acquire other rights for a period of time (say work 12 months, pay tax and NI and get the rights as a resident) - stops the argument about getting preferential treatment having contributed nothing - notwithstanding we have plenty of British born people who would fall into the same category.

And then work with people to acquire citizenship if that's what they want (and most do).

But we haven't.

We have a system designed to make the only realistic route to the UK a dangerous one, where young men have to lie to get here and pay a fortune to do it and inflame tensions in places where they are subsequently homed.

The $1500 they pay for a crossing, could have paid for that visa and give us a far better understanding of who is where.

The system we have is utterly broken and has been for at least 20 years.

People shouldn't be dying trying to better their lives.
 
I watched it.

What I find fascinating is that for all we are continually tools that Britain is shit, they were saying that it's the best place to go and risk their lives and livelihoods coming here.

I agree, we are a fabulous country and if I was in their position, I'd head here rather than stay in France.

The wider point

We have a problem with the need to mix up economic migration with fleeing persecution.

I once upset Tony Blair when he was PM on this matter. The moment we talked about a global economy, we, by definition created a global workforce - but we never put a system in place which recognises and facilitates it (and I'm talking about non-EU countries).

It won't affect the Professor of Engineering - who are always welcome but will affect those people headed into retail or other less skilled roles.

As a result, they need to claim asylum, which it isn't - breaking the system for people genuinely fleeing persecution - which do exist and I've helped plenty in my career.

And that means crossing the channel.

It also means it's dangerously easy to demonise all of them which isn't helpful.

We should have worked better in other places, to facilitate work visas, but which do not acquire other rights for a period of time (say work 12 months, pay tax and NI and get the rights as a resident) - stops the argument about getting preferential treatment having contributed nothing - notwithstanding we have plenty of British born people who would fall into the same category.

And then work with people to acquire citizenship if that's what they want (and most do).

But we haven't.

We have a system designed to make the only realistic route to the UK a dangerous one, where young men have to lie to get here and pay a fortune to do it and inflame tensions in places where they are subsequently homed.

The $1500 they pay for a crossing, could have paid for that visa and give us a far better understanding of who is where.

The system we have is utterly broken and has been for at least 20 years.

People shouldn't be dying trying to better their lives.
The language is a big pull to come to the uk and the 21 year old lad who died already had family here. This country needs a grown up discussion about many things such as tax and immigration. We have always needed immigrants to fill jobs, Windrush generation and Asian migration to works in the Mills. In my opinion its s been an exaggerated falsehood that its suppressed wages.
 
Last weekend, we were out and about and had been to a shopping centre which was very busy with British people buying goods.

We then decided to go for a walk out in nature whereby we stumbled across a large rural church so took a look inside. It was completely empty in the main hall. We then heard some voices coming from a chapel side room. It turned out it was a group of around 40 Iranian asylum seekers who were practising Christianity.

I couldn't help but compare the two scenes between the busy shopping centre where thousands of British people were hanging out and the Church which only had asylum seekers and nobody else in there.

This country has pursued nothing but a capitalist path for many decades. It has lost its spirituality. Everything is about money. Even the argument against asylum seekers mentions how much it costs to offer asylum. Our empty churches show how spiritually bankrupt we are. Maybe the asylum seekers will help to balance things out?
 
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Just watching this about people (migrants) crossing the channel on boats. Its tracked the path of a 21 year old Kurdish man who died when the boat sank. Firstly I found it quite moving as he was younger than my own son, he is a brother and son and the family will never recover. Secondly it appears that Kurds make up a large proportion of people in Calais trying to get across. A people who have been allies to the west and have been let down time and time again. The programme showed how these are real, decent people not the demons portrayed by the press. The tory Party have become obsessed by migrants, Patel, Braverman and Johnson repeatedly shown on the documentary stating the need to break up the criminal smuggling gangs, highlighting exploitation of vulnerable people. I'll flip this and say its the tories who are exploiting vulnerable people, who continually portray them as the bogeyman. The programme showed a single Kurd mother with three children who also died on the boat. Anyone should have the right to a better life, Europeans historically flocked to the US and Australia for such!
I also watched it also and yes it was so sad especially when young children are involved children who don’t have a say in what’s happening.
That said we have to be very careful here of who comes in as their not all innocent families just looking for a better life as it was only last week over 350 immigrants including over 100 Albanians we’re deported and in that group was a convicted rapist from Jamaica who was serving a 15 year prison sentence and another bloke from Albania who had been convicted of serious crime and was part of a crime gang.
 
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On the day worlds population grew to highest ever when the 8th Billionth person was born and predicted to get up to 9 in the next 15 years there simply are too many people in this world.
We can't have it both ways trying to cut down on climate change whilst growing as every single person has a carbon footprint however high/low.

Then we have the problems close to home population growth of ten million since the 90's over crowded schools,NHS at bursting point lack of social housing etc if you going to let people in at least when they pay taxes build the infrastructure for them.
 
I have never had a problem with Afghans, Kurds etc coming to the UK when they are genuinely fleeing war and famine. I have no problem either with Ukrainian refugees, considering their well publicised suffering. In fact every news report and documentary of this type showing the desperate situations of individuals makes me want to offer help. I believe most of us feel the same, but I also believe that people smuggling must be stopped at all costs and economic immigrants should not be admitted unless they are able and willing to provide a needed service.
 
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