So Do We Think The New Rules Will Work?

TwelveAngryMen

TwelveAngryMen

Well-known member
Or are we ignoring the elephant in the room ?

All the evidence suggests its schools and uni's that are the biggest transmitters and our track and trace is next to useless

Can we ever get the virus under control whilst both are teaching face-to-face and we have no proper track and trace system ?

I for one suggest not.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Or are we ignoring the elephant in the room ?

All the evidence suggests its schools and uni's that are the biggest transmitters and our track and trace is next to useless

Can we ever get the virus under control whilst both are teaching face-to-face and we have no proper track and trace system ?

I for one suggest not.
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Unless everyone gets a letter then how will some people know what tier they're in.
 
I think Boris is hoping the majority keep following the basic rules (Social distancing, face coverings, etc), however I'm getting the feeling he's lost the public's confidence with the latest "rules \ restrictions \ guidelines \ reports, etc", and the majority numbers will soon decrease.
The graphs Mr Whitty used in the presentation earlier, also appeared to agree with where you suggest the virus is being spread (Schools / Universities) however how do you stop young people from having a life, yet again, and I cant even remember Track and Trace being mentioned?

PS - There's no need to call Boris an Elephant 🐘😉
 
I thought your namesake Johnathan Van Tam was a little stupid this morning when he stated that schools are not a problem as there are low positives in that age group, totally forgetting that they may be asymptomatic and therefore not tested but taking it home to mum and dad.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Or are we ignoring the elephant in the room ?

All the evidence suggests its schools and uni's that are the biggest transmitters and our track and trace is next to useless
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Its tough UNIs & high schools can do online learning. Far harder for primary school children. I would say Unis should not be doing any face to face & High schools possibly not.
As for track & trace have we not got thousands of people employed to do it? Also now we finally have an app are we not using the lorded apple/google technology?
I got a possible exposure message on my phone today. It was one of those popular 'false notifications' .
Luckily i am clued up enough to realise this certainly after a little research. I
t still greatly concerned me and was a cause of worry when i first read it though.
 
Sadly I don’t think they will make much difference. The tiering system is probably a good idea, but at this rate how long before we are all in a highest tier zone anyway?Also the rule of six allows you to meet indoors with individuals from upto six other households which seems pretty lax to me?
 
deary said:
Its tough UNIs & high schools can do online learning. Far harder for primary school children. I would say Unis should not be doing any face to face & High schools possibly not.
As for track & trace have we not got thousands of people employed to do it? Also now we finally have an app are we not using the lorded apple/google technology?
I got a possible exposure message on my phone today. It was one of those popular 'false notifications' .
Luckily i am clued up enough to realise this certainly after a little research. I
t still greatly concerned me and was a cause of worry when i first read it though.
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This is part of the issue. You can get a notification but you're unsure on whether to isolate or not. Many will ignore it in any case if they're asymptomatic as they can't afford to be off work. Easier to delete the app and carry on.
 
Plenty of places have been effectively on Tier 2 for the last few weeks but cases are still rising. Is it due to ineffective track and trace? Or is it that some people simply refuse to follow the guidelines? Or a mixture of the two? One thing I do know is the prom will be ** heaving again on Saturday.
I'm not totally convinced schools are a major driver of the latest increase. Universities are a different matter altogether though.
 
Wizaard said:
This is part of the issue. You can get a notification but you're unsure on whether to isolate or not. Many will ignore it in any case if they're asymptomatic as they can't afford to be off work. Easier to delete the app and carry on.
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True Wiz but mine was simply a glitch, Luckily i knew this due to a bit of research & my behaviour, It was still concerning and would put many in a tis. I understand people ignoring things if asymptomatic and not being able to afford to be of work but they have offered the one of payment havent they so while not perfect hopefully this should help out?
As i have said previously though i doubt most of the spreaders will bother with the app anyway.
 
Still believe these degree boffins have no more idea about the virus than they thought they knew in March/April. Will just try to live a near normal life for the time being and use my common sense. In 10 years time I will have to change tactics,as will be high risk due to my age.
 
Unfortunately, the sad reality is quite a few people dont realise there is a pandemic or are too thick to understand basic instructions more like.
Next time you go to the supermarkets, have a look at some people. The ones who dont look like hygiene has ever been a big part of their lives. Then see all the 80 year olds staggering around. Insanity and its the reason we have the highest death count in europe. Obesity, unclean and a decrepit unfit population.
 
Seasider said:
I thought your namesake Johnathan Van Tam was a little stupid this morning when he stated that schools are not a problem as there are low positives in that age group, totally forgetting that they may be asymptomatic and therefore not tested but taking it home to mum and dad.
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My granddaughter is in year 7, last Wednesday one child in her class tested positive, so he and the group of 7 he was in were sent home. On Friday another boy tested positive and another 7 were sent home. That leaves 14 in the class. My wife and I have had no option but to tell them we can’t see them for 2 weeks.

I have to say I’m surprised the whole class wasn’t sent home, but an email from the school said all other children must attend, in bold and underlined.
 
southshorepool said:
Plenty of places have been effectively on Tier 2 for the last few weeks but cases are still rising. Is it due to ineffective track and trace? Or is it that some people simply refuse to follow the guidelines? Or a mixture of the two? One thing I do know is the prom will be ** heaving again on Saturday.
I'm not totally convinced schools are a major driver of the latest increase. Universities are a different matter altogether though.
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As well as some refusing to follow the guidelines, some are just plain thick and don’t think it will happen to them.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Or are we ignoring the elephant in the room ?

All the evidence suggests its schools and uni's that are the biggest transmitters and our track and trace is next to useless

Can we ever get the virus under control whilst both are teaching face-to-face and we have no proper track and trace system ?

I for one suggest not.
Click to expand...
They’ve chanced that with young people statistically not suffering as much, it’d be a way of building herd immunity. As It looks like antibodies only last 4, it won’t work.
 
It all depends what you think the government's aims are.

If you think it is to suppress the virus then the answer is no, that is a near impossibility. An idea so crackers it sounds like it could've come from Willy Wonka or a Bond villain.

If you think the answer is to provide an illusion of agency over a situation that they have little real control over (whilst shifting the blame, kicking the can down the road and avoiding responsibility for decisions made in March/April) - then the answer is maybe 👍🏻
 
rockontommy said:
It all depends what you think the government's aims are.

If you think it is to suppress the virus then the answer is no, that is a near impossibility. An idea so crackers it sounds like it could've come from Willy Wonka or a Bond villain.

If you think the answer is to provide an illusion of agency over a situation that they have little real control over (whilst shifting the blame, kicking the can down the road and avoiding responsibility for decisions made in March/April) - then the answer is maybe 👍🏻
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I think you’re right so far as the blame shifting is concerned.

You can see if from this thread - people in supermarkets/on the promenade blaming other people in supermarkets/on the promenade for spreading the disease.
 
glasshalffull said:
Sadly I don’t think they will make much difference. The tiering system is probably a good idea, but at this rate how long before we are all in a highest tier zone anyway?Also the rule of six allows you to meet indoors with individuals from upto six other households which seems pretty lax to me?
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In the Tier 2 we are in, you're not allowed to meet with anybody outside your household anywhere indoors.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I think you’re right so far as the blame shifting is concerned.

You can see if from this thread - people in supermarkets/on the promenade blaming other people in supermarkets/on the promenade for spreading the disease.
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Ah yes, the 'army on the street' types. Want to stop children playing and won't visit lonely elderly relatives. Previously right on, hug a hoodie types now flirting with Nazi party policy. Scum.

Back to the OP, even SAGE minutes (21/9) admit "weak" evidence that the interventions will work. It's all about how long people want to tolerate restrictions for a minimal amount of reassurance in recompense. They are basically a placebo.
 
We are moving to tier 3 very high in the next week or so as soon as council leaders come to financial agreement with Boris & co. The leader of Lancs county council just stated this on local radio .
 
That doesn't surprise
I think they just took Liverpool in on the basis they'd drag the rest in latter
I see London avoided second tier despite it's worrying trends
There's a surprise
 
I think the rules are quite clear. That is, stop ** around. Wash hands regular and keep your distance until a vaccine is available.
It gets complicated when halfarsed 'experts' offer their 'opinions' on TV and in the media and that is what is destroying public faith.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
In the Tier 2 we are in, you're not allowed to meet with anybody outside your household anywhere indoors.
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I know, but I live in a medium risk area where the rule of six still applies. From word of mouth reports, and the local press the numbers are clearly escalating though.
I think it was too lax when it came in. I have just been in Scotland where you have not been able to mix indoors with members of other households for some time. People locally were certainly sticking to it. Will it have made a difference? Who knows?
 
The thing with schools is we have a moral obligation to give children a proper education, and try as we might watching videos and doing lessons over zoom doesn’t work. Plus if schools close then parents have to take time off work and we may as well go into a full lockdown situation like we had at the start. I couldn’t see even this shambles in charge agreeing to close schools whilst keeping pubs, restaurants, gyms etc open.

Perhaps if there had been a proper procurement procedure in place rather than billions of pounds being given to companies run by mates of the government we might have had an effective track & trace system in place months ago.
 
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Pauls_Boutique said:
The thing with schools is we have a moral obligation to give children a proper education, and try as we might watching videos and doing lessons over zoom doesn’t work. Plus if schools close then parents have to take time off work and we may as well go into a full lockdown situation like we had at the start. I couldn’t see even this shambles in charge agreeing to close schools whilst keeping pubs, restaurants, gyms etc open.

Perhaps if there had been a proper procurement procedure in place rather than billions of pounds being given to companies run by mates of the government we might have had an effective track & trace system in place months ago.
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I wasn't suggesting the schools be closed although I do think there was a good case for the Universities to teach remotely

What I do have an issue with is the bankrupting of many business owners and the impoverishment of thousands if not millions of people for no real purpose - it's like putting a sticking plaster over a serious knife wound

100% agree over the track and trace - this is where the resources should have been effectively directed
 
www.mirror.co.uk

Under-pressure Boris Johnson 'will consider' two-week 'circuit breaker' lockdown

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer broke the political truce with the Conservatives over the pandemic response in laying out a separate plan as scientists estimated thousands of lives could be saved
www.mirror.co.uk www.mirror.co.uk
Looks like Boris is bowing to pressure from Keir and Sage anyway now. A circuit breaker lockdown will delight some and devastate others. It’s a no win call to be honest.
 
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