Shamina Begum

Albert Ross said:
And Iraq IS were fighting alongside Al Qaeda against us.
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No in the Mex world

Apparently she got abducted by aliens flown to the middle east and became a freedom fighter after joining Luke Skywalker to fight against Darth Vader and his nasty Jewish storm troopers who were taking over middle earth whilst searching for the one ring of power
 
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20togo said:
any coincidence Mex deflects it to his criticism of Israel and the IDF.

Far be it for me to suggest that someone with his left wing views has an anti-semitic stance.
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Yeah its weird why bring the IDF into this

Remainder removed.
 
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20togo said:
any coincidence Mex deflects it to his criticism of Israel and the IDF.

Far be it from me to suggest that someone with his left wing views has an anti-semitic stance.
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Not really. I just asked a question as there seemed to be an element of double standards and hypocrisy on the thread. So far only one poster (or maybe two) has made an attempt to answer the question and I tend to agree with what he said (IS is a clear and present danger in the way the IDF isn’t). The rest, you included, have preferred to deflect by resorting to insults.

The other wider point is that, implicit with a lot of posts of this type, is that you can’t be Muslim and British. I think that’s nonsense and antisemitic. In the same way that saying you can’t be Jewish and British would be antisemitic. I don’t believe either of those statements as I’m not antisemitic. I assume you think the same?
 
20togo said:
didn't see your post so dont know what you said. However it was clearly quickly removed. Just had a look and there's currently 67 members on line. To me, that suggests the moderator is one of those people. Draw your own conclusion.
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I’m not a mod if that’s what you’re insinuating.
 
Old_Laytonian said:
Are they a perceived threat to our national security?
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See my earlier reply. I tend to agree.

Another point though, not discussed so far, is whether British Citizens should be allowed for fight for the “wrong foreign cause”, even when there isn’t a threat to U.K. national security? For instance Brits fighting in Ukraine would, I suspect, be applauded by most people in the U.K. Brits fighting for Putin less so.

Obviously Israel and the IDF have been condemned by the vast majority of nations on the planet for the way they’ve conducted themselves in Gaza. So to ask whether British citizens should be serving in the IDF is, for many people, a legitimate question to ask.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Not really. I just asked a question as there seemed to be an element of double standards and hypocrisy on the thread. So far only one poster (or maybe two) has made an attempt to answer the question and I tend to agree with what he said (IS is a clear and present danger in the way the IDF isn’t). The rest, you included, have preferred to deflect by resorting to insults.

The other wider point is that, implicit with a lot of posts of this type, is that you can’t be Muslim and British. I think that’s nonsense and antisemitic. In the same way that saying you can’t be Jewish and British would be antisemitic. I don’t believe either of those statements as I’m not antisemitic. I assume you think the same?
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Unfortunately as in your case Mex we only have look at who’s posted it then we just know it’s going to end up an anti Jewish/IDF slagging g match it’s that predictable.

I’m still shocked about what the feck the IDF have got in common on a thread about Shamina Begum? 🤷‍♂️

No forget that I’m not anymore.
 
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Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Unfortunately as in your case Mex we only have look at who’s posted it then we just know it’s going to end up an anti Jewish/IDF slagging g match it’s that predictable.

I’m still shocked about what the feck the IDF have got in common on a thread about Shamia Begum? 🤷‍♂️

Well to be honest I’m not anymore.
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It’s to do with Brits travelling overseas to fight in/ support the cause of another religion/country. I’m surprised you can’t see the connection.

By the way I don’t make anti Jewish comments. I certainly make anti Israel comments but that’s a completely different thing. It’s not antisemitic to criticise Israel. It’s also not supporting Hamas to criticise Israel. I thought we’d settled that debate/slur a long time ago.
 
Back to the basis of the thread. Emotionally, I tend to think she only wanted to come back when things went wrong, so tough. Intellectually, I have concerns about whether we would see this differently if it was a Christian 15 year old groomed by a cult. I also have huge concerns with the current Governmnet's desire to remove ECHR scrutiny of its decisions. What people forget is once it has been made precedent to remove citizenship ( possibly the wrong word, don't jump on it if it is!) from someone born and bred in the UK, they could do the same to any of us if they wished.

Re the off tangent stuff, I always thought UK forces had a law making any current military personnel fighting for any foreign power a court martial offence? There were several cases back in the 70's when mercenaries were all the rage.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
It’s to do with Brits travelling overseas to fight in/ support the cause of another religion/country. I’m surprised you can’t see the connection.

By the way I don’t make anti Jewish comments. I certainly make anti Israel comments but that’s a completely different thing. It’s not antisemitic to criticise Israel. It’s also not supporting Hamas to criticise Israel. I thought we’d settled that debate/slur a long time ago.
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So is that the reason your now calling them the IDF and not Isreal?

I’ve nothing at all against people from this country fighting overseas for a cause but when that cause is against us then the books closed for me and it should never be re-opened.

This terrorist bride should never be allowed back in this country it would be nice for you to agree with that.

And before you ask yes I’ve said it many times over a cease fire is much needed in Gaza it’s getting out of hand and has been for some time now far too many innocent civilians have been killed.

But as I’ve also said many times over if Hamas surrendered right now and gave up the hostages the war would stop immediately and all the killing and suffering would end as well.

Hamas aren’t doing their people any favours at all in continuing with this war they simply can’t win.
 
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Mexboroseasider said:
Not really. I just asked a question as there seemed to be an element of double standards and hypocrisy on the thread. So far only one poster (or maybe two) has made an attempt to answer the question and I tend to agree with what he said (IS is a clear and present danger in the way the IDF isn’t). The rest, you included, have preferred to deflect by resorting to insults.

The other wider point is that, implicit with a lot of posts of this type, is that you can’t be Muslim and British. I think that’s nonsense and antisemitic. In the same way that saying you can’t be Jewish and British would be antisemitic. I don’t believe either of those statements as I’m not antisemitic. I assume you think the same?
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yes, i agree with your last para. With regards to your first para, it was you who first started the deflection.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
So is that the reason your now calling them the IDF and not Isreal?

I’ve nothing at all against people from this country fighting overseas for a cause but when that cause is against us then the books closed for me and it should never be re-opened.

This terrorist bride should never be allowed back in this country it would be nice for you to agree with that.

And before you ask yes I’ve said it many times over a cease fire is much needed in Gaza it’s getting out of hand and has been for some time now far too many innocent civilians have been killed.

But as I’ve also said many times over if Hamas surrendered right now and gave up the hostages the war would stop immediately and all the killing and suffering would end as well.

Hamas aren’t doing their people any favours at all in continuing with this war they simply can’t win.
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“Now calling them”?!!

I’ve always referred to Israel, Netanyahu’s government and/or the IDF.

As for Begum, I’m similar to Mossy. I have concerns that a girl who was groomed/brainwashed by a cult at the age of 15 and trafficked out of the country, is now seen as the epitome of evil rather than a victim. But essentially, the courts have heard all the evidence and have decided to decline her appeal and I accept that decision (not that any of us have any option mind).

I’m pleased to see that you’ve finally come round to the pov that there should be a ceasefire. When I’ve suggested it before I’ve always got pelters on the basis it’d leave Hamas intact.
 
It is very worrying that a state (our state) can deny somebody citizenship when they were born here.
IMO she is unfortunately our problem and as pointed out went to Syria as a 15 year old brainwashed child. This judgement seems to want to dump her on some other country - is it even legal to do this?
BTW I have no sympathy for her but it's a worrying precedent.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
“Now calling them”?!!

I’ve always referred to Israel, Netanyahu’s government and/or the IDF.

As for Begum, I’m similar to Mossy. I have concerns that a girl who was groomed/brainwashed by a cult at the age of 15 and trafficked out of the country, is now seen as the epitome of evil rather than a victim. But essentially, the courts have heard all the evidence and have decided to decline her appeal and I accept that decision (not that any of us have any option mind).

I’m pleased to see that you’ve finally come round to the pov that there should be a ceasefire. When I’ve suggested it before I’ve always got pelters on the basis it’d leave Hamas intact.
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At 15 she ran away at 16 she married a Dutch ISIS fighter and had a baby (several to my knowledge) so she knew full well what she was doing at such a young age so don't let that blind you even her mates (same ages) knew they were doing wrong and decided to come home after just a few months so why couldn’t she?

And as for I’ve finally come around that’s just not true is it? I posted weeks in fact probably well over a month ago a ceasefire was needed.

You know the thread I’m talking about so by all means go check oh no it was deleted wasn’t it.
 
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Jaffa_The_Hut said:
At 15 she ran away at 16 she married a Dutch ISIS fighter and had a baby (several to my knowledge) so she knew full well what she was doing at such a young age so don't let that blind you even her mates (same ages) knew they were doing wrong and decided to come home after just a few months so why couldn’t she?

And as for I’ve finally come around that’s just not true is it? I posted weeks in fact probably well over a month ago a ceasefire was needed.

You know the thread I’m talking about so by all means go check oh no it was deleted wasn’t it.
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Jaffa, you need to stick to airport threads where you know what you are talking about. One of shamima's two friends was killed in a Russian airstrike and the whereabouts of the other is unknown, but she has not returned to the UK. I have mixed feelings on this. She has clearly done wrong and knew at the time she was doing wrong, but she is (was) a British citizen. In my opinion, she should be repatriated, charged with whatever offences she has been deemed to have committed, and put before the courts.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Back to the basis of the thread. Emotionally, I tend to think she only wanted to come back when things went wrong, so tough. Intellectually, I have concerns about whether we would see this differently if it was a Christian 15 year old groomed by a cult. I also have huge concerns with the current Governmnet's desire to remove ECHR scrutiny of its decisions. What people forget is once it has been made precedent to remove citizenship ( possibly the wrong word, don't jump on it if it is!) from someone born and bred in the UK, they could do the same to any of us if they wished.

Re the off tangent stuff, I always thought UK forces had a law making any current military personnel fighting for any foreign power a court martial offence? There were several cases back in the 70's when mercenaries were all the rage.
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I'm not sure it's legal to fight in Ukraine for either side.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
What people forget is once it has been made precedent to remove citizenship ( possibly the wrong word, don't jump on it if it is!) from someone born and bred in the UK, they could do the same to any of us if they wished.
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They can anyway, the state can do anything they want to you if needed, always been the case.
 
i find some of this using the excuse that she was a child somewhat ridiculous. She was fifteen years old, and an age which in their culture they can marry. A person who is 15 yrs and 364 days old is a child and then the next say she is a 16 year old adult and somehow people think a mindset will have changed in one day and that can be judged differently as to their thoughts.
 
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