P&O Ferries

Mexboroseasider said:
All sailings suspended pending a “major announcement”.

Doesn’t sound good for employees or customers.
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Is there Russian money hidden in the background?

I think I heard Holland & Barrett were owned by an English sounding investment house which was actually Oligarch owned so wouldn’t surprise me….
 
Chunkylad said:
Is there Russian money hidden in the background?

I think I heard Holland & Barrett were owned by an English sounding investment house which was actually Oligarch owned so wouldn’t surprise me….
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First reports are that the Trade Union thinks it’s a move to replace staff with cheaper foreign workers, but who knows?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

All P&O Ferries sailing staff 'made redundant' after announcement

Reports come after the major ferry firm suddenly suspended operations this morning
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Mass redundancies with immediate effect according to this report.

Sea going staff to be replaced with agency workers. Presumably they are hoping the employees will now apply via the agency?
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Foreign crew much cheaper than UK workers is what I have heard
If only the UK were in an organisation where these sorts of abuses of workers rights were not allowed.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Outrage and no ferries after mass P&O sackings - BBC News

The company confirms it will not run services "for the next few days" after abruptly sacking 800 staff.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Confirmed by the BBC now. 800 sailing staff dismissed without notice. Some are refusing to leave the ships and P&O sending on private security according to some reports.
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Probably getting Asians and other 3rd world crews at half the cost.
They'll be back in service fairly soon.
 
Shandypants said:
Didn't brexiteers declare that employees wages were suppressed because we were in the EU?
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Didn't Boris Johnson declare in the last few years that we would become a high wage, high skill economy.
The truth was always that we would become some sort of tax haven where workers have less protections than workers in the EU.
This maybe the start of it, maybe Rees-Mogg will declare the ease with which employers can get rid of contracted staff as a Brexit benefit!!
 
P&O Furloughed 1400 staff in the pandemic costing us about £10M
Asked for £150M bailout then paid its shareholders £250M
They are owned by Dubai based DP World with major Russian shareholders.
Is this a tit for tat move to punish the UK?
 
Davepick said:
Probably getting Asians and other 3rd world crews at half the cost.
They'll be back in service fairly soon.
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Allegedly had buses of new crew waiting on the dockside as they broadcast the news to the existing staff. Nice.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Foreign crew much cheaper than UK workers is what I have heard
If only the UK were in an organisation where these sorts of abuses of workers rights were not allowed.
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I’m thinking in this case the EU wouldn’t have helped?
If Romanian workers would work for lower wages than UK then that would be that surely?
 
Chunkylad said:
I’m thinking in this case the EU wouldn’t have helped?
If Romanian workers would work for lower wages than UK then that would be that surely?
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I think because it's maritime the owners are more or less able to do whatever they like.

I suspect in this case it's less to do with where the workers are coming from, and more a case of cutting back the package of the existing workforce.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I think because it's maritime the owners are more or less able to do whatever they like.

I suspect in this case it's less to do with where the workers are coming from, and more a case of cutting back the package of the existing workforce.
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There’s a couple of things I don’t understand.

First from memory the definition of “redundancy” is that your job has ceased to exist. How can the jobs of the current (or maybe now former) staff have ceased to exist if P&O needs agency staff to replace them?

Secondly any business owner will tell you that part of the redundancy process includes consultation where you create a pool of employees who might ultimately be made redundant. The pool doesn’t usually include everyone.

For those selected for redundancy they should then be given notice, the length of which depends on the length of their employment and contractual terms.

It seems neither of those has happened here.

Now it maybe that P&O will argue this situation is akin to an insolvency process but without appointing administrators. But at first flush it appears they’ve ignored the law, budgeted for a figure they may have to pay to employees and decided to go for it. Or alternatively will say, if pushed we’ll put the company under and the employees and tax man will get zilch.

The Middle Eastern owners are also keen on Free Trade zones and have invested heavily in London Gateway (so no levelling up there). It’d be ironic if London finally removed the fist of the oligarchs from its testicles only to find they’ve been replaced by a different hand.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
There’s a couple of things I don’t understand.

First from memory the definition of “redundancy” is that your job has ceased to exist. How can the jobs of the current (or maybe now former) staff have ceased to exist if P&O needs agency staff to replace them?

Secondly any business owner will tell you that part of the redundancy process includes consultation where you create a pool of employees who might ultimately be made redundant. The pool doesn’t usually include everyone.

For those selected for redundancy they should then be given notice, the length of which depends on the length of their employment and contractual terms.

It seems neither of those has happened here.

Now it maybe that P&O will argue this situation is akin to an insolvency process but without appointing administrators. But at first flush it appears they’ve ignored the law, budgeted for a figure they may have to pay to employees and decided to go for it. Or alternatively will say, if pushed we’ll put the company under and the employees and tax man will get zilch.

The Middle Eastern owners are also keen on Free Trade zones and have invested heavily in London Gateway (so no levelling up there). It’d be ironic if London finally removed the fist of the oligarchs from its testicles only to find they’ve been replaced by a different hand.
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Presumably a hand hacked off from a shoplifter, that’s the punishment for theft in Dubai isn’t it where the P&O owners have literally stolen the crews jobs.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
There’s a couple of things I don’t understand.
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I think the key point is maritime, which is to say that the law of England and Wales may not necessarily apply.

If you want to dive into the law of the sea, yeah........ that's a rabbit hole and a half (and let's not ask what half a hole is).
 
Bottle said:
P&O Furloughed 1400 staff in the pandemic costing us about £10M
Asked for £150M bailout then paid its shareholders £250M
They are owned by Dubai based DP World with major Russian shareholders.
Is this a tit for tat move to punish the UK?
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If that is the case they should be made to repay every penny. This is taxpayers money going to pay shareholders dividends. Money that could have gone to the NHS.
 
Glad we got out of Europe so we could safeguard British jobs for British workers...

800 being replaced by cheaper foreign agency staff with literally no notice, and the cheeky bastards have the replacement crews waiting on the dockside to take the next shift.

The Government say they're appalled but in reality, its their legislation that has allowed this.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I think the key point is maritime, which is to say that the law of England and Wales may not necessarily apply.

If you want to dive into the law of the sea, yeah........ that's a rabbit hole and a half (and let's not ask what half a hole is).
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If their staff were employed under maritime law why were they allowed to claim furlough from the U.K. government and request a 150 million bailout
 
Lost Seasider said:
I think the key point is maritime, which is to say that the law of England and Wales may not necessarily apply.

If you want to dive into the law of the sea, yeah........ that's a rabbit hole and a half (and let's not ask what half a hole is).
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Nah.

Where’s the employer based?

Where are most of the employees based?

Which tax payers have funded the business during Covid?

I think the Court of Appeal looked at all this (charters, flags of convenience etc) a couple of years ago and came down on the side of the employees.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Nah.

Where’s the employer based?

Where are most of the employees based?

Which tax payers have funded the business during Covid?

I think the Court of Appeal looked at all this (charters, flags of convenience etc) a couple of years ago and came down on the side of the employees.
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Where would you like the employer to be based?

They're ships, they move around, they can pick whatever legal system suits them.
 
Wizaard said:
Glad we got out of Europe so we could safeguard British jobs for British workers...

800 being replaced by cheaper foreign agency staff with literally no notice, and the cheeky bastards have the replacement crews waiting on the dockside to take the next shift.

The Government say they're appalled but in reality, its their legislation that has allowed this.
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This Is Brexit - shouldn’t some flags be being posted on here by now?
 
Lost Seasider said:
Where would you like the employer to be based?

They're ships, they move around, they can pick whatever legal system suits them.
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The employer is based wherever the registered office of the employing company is? I’d have thought.

Does the employer of an employed lorry driver change when he leaves the U.K.?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

There you go
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nothing to do with brexit you clown
Bottle said:
This Is Brexit - shouldn’t some flags be being posted on here by now?
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nothing to do with brexit you clown
this is all about flags of convenience used by the merchant navy.
my brother in law was a 2nd officer with P&O spending over 45 years in the merchant navy and seen this happening over the last 25 years.
re register ships to foreign ports lay off british seamen and pay absolute peanuts for foreign crews only kept the officers on.
NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT FACT.
 
seasiderjohn said:
nothing to do with brexit you clown

nothing to do with brexit you clown
this is all about flags of convenience used by the merchant navy.
my brother in law was a 2nd officer with P&O spending over 45 years in the merchant navy and seen this happening over the last 25 years.
re register ships to foreign ports lay off british seamen and pay absolute peanuts for foreign crews only kept the officers on.
NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT FACT.
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Other than we left the EU to make our own laws and be a sovereign state to prevent this kind of thing happening.

In fact, I've yet to see a Brexiteer ascribe anything good or bad to Brexit. Why on earth did we bother if absolutely nothing changes?
 
traffordtang said:
If that is the case they should be made to repay every penny. This is taxpayers money going to pay shareholders dividends. Money that could have gone to the NHS.
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It gets worse traff - heard of “The DP World Tour”? £147M in Prize Money offered up to change the name of the 2022 European Golf Tour.

If not, then maybe you are aware of F1 Team Renault DP World who, once Formula One Renault, are sponsored to the tune of £35M

But lets not forget DP World’s refusal to plug the £146M deficit in The Merchant Navy Ratings Pension Fund for P&O Retirees, so not just current employees being stiffed big time.

So £177M in sponsorship whilst pocketing £10M furlough payments, nice little earner eh!
 
seasiderjohn said:
nothing to do with brexit you clown

nothing to do with brexit you clown
this is all about flags of convenience used by the merchant navy.
my brother in law was a 2nd officer with P&O spending over 45 years in the merchant navy and seen this happening over the last 25 years.
re register ships to foreign ports lay off british seamen and pay absolute peanuts for foreign crews only kept the officers on.
NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT FACT.
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I never said it was anything to do with Brexit. I posted flags because someone was complaining about the absence of flags.

Mind you…

Now you’ve brought it up……
 
Wizaard said:
Other than we left the EU to make our own laws and be a sovereign state to prevent this kind of thing happening.

In fact, I've yet to see a Brexiteer ascribe anything good or bad to Brexit. Why on earth did we bother if absolutely nothing changes?
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we couldnt as they are registered outside of the uk so we have NO control its like saying we havie control over coca cola or nissan they are owned by foreign countries
 
seasiderjohn said:
nothing to do with brexit you clown

nothing to do with brexit you clown
this is all about flags of convenience used by the merchant navy.
my brother in law was a 2nd officer with P&O spending over 45 years in the merchant navy and seen this happening over the last 25 years.
re register ships to foreign ports lay off british seamen and pay absolute peanuts for foreign crews only kept the officers on.
NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT FACT.
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By the way I don’t think it’s got anything to do about flags of convenience either. Except to the extent that the owners of P&O are using it as an excuse to stiff their employees.
 
seasiderjohn said:
nothing to do with brexit you clown

nothing to do with brexit you clown
this is all about flags of convenience used by the merchant navy.
my brother in law was a 2nd officer with P&O spending over 45 years in the merchant navy and seen this happening over the last 25 years.
re register ships to foreign ports lay off british seamen and pay absolute peanuts for foreign crews only kept the officers on.
NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT FACT.
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These employers know how to work the system.
 
seasiderjohn said:
nothing to do with brexit you clown

nothing to do with brexit you clown
this is all about flags of convenience used by the merchant navy.
my brother in law was a 2nd officer with P&O spending over 45 years in the merchant navy and seen this happening over the last 25 years.
re register ships to foreign ports lay off british seamen and pay absolute peanuts for foreign crews only kept the officers on.
NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT FACT.
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Clown? You can’t blame the EU for this, you can’t blame us Remainers for this and you can’t blame Immigrants for this. This is happening now in this version of the UK you voted for. So who do you blame as this new found freedom you bang on about seems to have allowed it to happen.

P&O our largest Ferry operator, and us an island who would have thought eh! Take Back Control oh yes, Take Back Control.
 
Bottle said:
Clown? You can’t blame the EU for this, you can’t blame us Remainers for this and you can’t blame Immigrants for this. This is happening now in this version of the UK you voted for. So who do you blame as this new found freedom you bang on about seems to have allowed it to happen.

P&O our largest Ferry operator, and us an island who would have thought eh! Take Back Control oh yes, Take Back Control.
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its not a british company it just employs a small percentage of british crew and they own the ports the vessels are registered overseas I left school and joined the merchant navy so I do know a little bit more on the workings than obviously you do!

Despite maintaining its dominant position for many decades, the decline of the British Empire, the rise of the use of the flag of convenience, and foreign competition led to the decline of the merchant fleet.
 
seasiderjohn said:
its not a british company it just employs a small percentage of british crew and they own the ports the vessels are registered overseas I left school and joined the merchant navy so I do know a little bit more on the workings than obviously you do!

Despite maintaining its dominant position for many decades, the decline of the British Empire, the rise of the use of the flag of convenience, and foreign competition led to the decline of the merchant fleet.
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Doesn't really answer the question, if 800 British workers are in effect having their contacts of employment torn up why can't the British government do something about it?
 
seasiderjohn said:
its not a british company it just employs a small percentage of british crew and they own the ports the vessels are registered overseas I left school and joined the merchant navy so I do know a little bit more on the workings than obviously you do!

Despite maintaining its dominant position for many decades, the decline of the British Empire, the rise of the use of the flag of convenience, and foreign competition led to the decline of the merchant fleet.
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Fair enough, I bow to your superior knowledge, I’m just a clown so what do I know.
 
gjr69 said:
Doesn't really answer the question, if 800 British workers are in effect having their contacts of employment torn up why can't the British government do something about it?
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They don’t have the power. It’s up to the interested parties (basically the RMT) to apply to the court for an injunction. Which I think they are doing.
 
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