More flag nonesense

JJpool said:
I'm not saying we should we celebrating the dark times, however some context is required in that it was the norm.

We should be proud that we the nation that came to the realisation that it was badly wrong and spent blood and money to stop it.

Even the Africans didn't want to stop it, the ones selling their own people into it.

So yes when looking back at times hundreds of years ago you have to have a certain level of understanding of what was acceptable in those days.
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You keep mentioning 'the Africans' as if they were one indigenous people instead of many diverse societies and cultures. It is ridiculously simplistic. I am sure that 'the Africans' who were being enslaved would have wanted to stop the slave trade. Because black people in Africa were also involved in the slave trade does not in any way excuse our European involvement as you seem to be implying.

You needlessly introduced slavery into a debate you had started about flags. This tells us a lot about how you think. And when people don't agree with your partial and simplistic view of history you tell us to move on. If you want to debate slavery fair enough, but you cannot simply take one action [the abolition] without considering it in the context of the whole history.

I would advise you to stop watching GB news and YouTube videos from dubious providers. I get the impression that these providers have captured you. Get your history and news from more mainstream, widespread and less partial sources that do not peddle victimhood and paranoia.
 
JJpool said:
Did I say that or have you just made it up again, you made it up. All races have been victims of it and of atrocities. But Africa suffered badly in that time mainly because of their own people, which many want to skip over,but also those seeking to take advantage of it.

Ahh so do you believe we should be guilty for things done hundreds of years ago.

So again how far are we to go back in this? I presume you're claiming against the vikings, let me know how that goes.

Once again you've ignored what I said initially, I haven't said to ignore what was done only to acknowledge the times in which it happened and the mindset of the world in which it was accepted ans the effort it took to go against that and stop it.

You claim all angles should be heard yet that's not the sort of narratives we do hear, only the bad. It's funny when people learn what we did do in stopping it, like in the video posted, they are surprised, as they haven't heard that angle being pushed by those with agendas these days, as it doesn't fit, so if any side is being cut out it's that.
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No I don’t think we should feel guilty about things that happened hundreds of years ago. And I don’t think anyone is trying to make us feel guilty. That’s something that you’ve made up because you don’t like people talking about the reality of the slave trade and want to talk exclusively about abolition instead as it reflects well on us.

It’s a bit like the very right wing Law and Justice
Party in Poland. When in power they decreed that the only acceptable narrative of WW2 was how the brave Poles resisted Nazi occupation (which many did). However they also outlawed any mention of how antisemitic Poles collaborated with the Nazis in the persecution of the Jews. It didn’t fit with the self image they were trying to promote.

Whitewashing history in effect.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
You keep mentioning 'the Africans' as if they were one indigenous people instead of many diverse societies and cultures. It is ridiculously simplistic. I am sure that 'the Africans' who were being enslaved would have wanted to stop the slave trade. Because black people in Africa were also involved in the slave trade does not in any way excuse our European involvement as you seem to be implying.

You needlessly introduced slavery into a debate you had started about flags. This tells us a lot about how you think. And when people don't agree with your partial and simplistic view of history you tell us to move on. If you want to debate slavery fair enough, but you cannot simply take one action [the abolition] without considering it in the context of the whole history.

I would advise you to stop watching GB news and YouTube videos from dubious providers. I get the impression that these providers have captured you. Get your history and news from more mainstream, widespread and less partial sources that do not peddle victimhood and paranoia.
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Well they came from Africa, its pretty simple to say rather than mentioning by country. You don't hear the side I have mentioned much though do you, that's the reality.

I mentioned it to someone as the way in which some view the flag and disrespect for the country reminded me of this, which i had just watched something about, another way to hate on Britain with narratives being pushed and forget the good that was actually done at the end of it. So that I mentioned it to someone doesn't tell you anything at all, I actually said the worst bit of the history but ended with a proud part. I also said you had to take into context the practises of the times.

Actually I don't watch GB that much, only occasionally if something pops up of interest. So agin you know fcuk all about me so don't try and judge, you really don't have a clue.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
No I don’t think we should feel guilty about things that happened hundreds of years ago. And I don’t think anyone is trying to make us feel guilty. That’s something that you’ve made up because you don’t like people talking about the reality of the slave trade and want to talk exclusively about abolition instead as it reflects well on us.

It’s a bit like the very right wing Law and Justice
Party in Poland. When in power they decreed that the only acceptable narrative of WW2 was how the brave Poles resisted Nazi occupation (which many did). However they also outlawed any mention of how antisemitic Poles collaborated with the Nazis in the persecution of the Jews. It didn’t fit with the self image they were trying to promote.

Whitewashing history in effect.
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There is a movement out the seeking to do just that. It's you who seems to make things up and then attacks a strawman, because I don't say the things you claim.

What I've said is nothing like that, as my opening post tells anyone, where I mention the worst part but only that people ignore the ending and also the context of the time. There are many brutal parts of world history.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I would advise you to stop watching GB news and YouTube videos from dubious providers. I get the impression that these providers have captured you. Get your history and news from more mainstream, widespread and less partial sources that do not peddle victimhood and paranoia.
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Exactly, EBSN! Good advice.

We have given the same advice to a pal of mine who has gone done the same rabbit hole and whose brain is filled with the same GB News/YouTube junk. He too spends half his life as a slave to the algorithms and has become something of a joke figure in his circle of friends. Unfortunately any debate is futile and he is in thrall to the internet because of his lifestyle (doesn`t get out and do things enough). Shame because he is an otherwise bright fella. He too totally distrusts the MSM and the BBC.

Whilst GB News is a lazy propagator of disinformation for the credulous, I think the YouTube algorithms are the more dangerous to those with a lack of critical thinking. The fact that JJ claims not to watch GB News that much but constantly posts clips from it, and invariably refers to everything in terms of `left` and `right`, shows a level of indoctrination into this guff. That`s before we get started on the wokey stuff. GB News is solely about division and eschews nuance and complexity.

It`s a pity as JJ is a good poster on other matters...
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
No there isn't.
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I’m afraid there is I could easily name at least 3-4 maybe even half a dozen who since Brexit have done nothing but slag this country off and bleated how good life is in other countries.

And please don’t ask me to name them as I won’t but they know who they are and I’m surprised you don’t see it.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I’m afraid there is I could easily name at least 3-4 maybe even half a dozen who since Brexit have done nothing but slag this country off and bleated how good life is in other countries.

And please don’t ask me to name them as I won’t but they know who they are and I’m surprised you don’t see it.
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Again, just not true.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
You know you can criticise the country because you want it to do better?
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Absolutely as I have done in the past on several topics.
But some people go one further saying how bad life if over here and life is so much better in other countries.
One particular poster (again I won’t name him) slags this country off openly and he doesn’t even live here FFS. 🤷‍♂️
 
spudgun said:
Exactly, EBSN! Good advice.

We have given the same advice to a pal of mine who has gone done the same rabbit hole and whose brain is filled with the same GB News/YouTube junk. He too spends half his life as a slave to the algorithms and has become something of a joke figure in his circle of friends. Unfortunately any debate is futile and he is in thrall to the internet because of his lifestyle (doesn`t get out and do things enough). Shame because he is an otherwise bright fella. He too totally distrusts the MSM and the BBC.

Whilst GB News is a lazy propagator of disinformation for the credulous, I think the YouTube algorithms are the more dangerous to those with a lack of critical thinking. The fact that JJ claims not to watch GB News that much but constantly posts clips from it, and invariably refers to everything in terms of `left` and `right`, shows a level of indoctrination into this guff. That`s before we get started on the wokey stuff. GB News is solely about division and eschews nuance and complexity.

It`s a pity as JJ is a good poster on other matters...
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What a condescending assessment of someone you don't even know.

Someone takes a different opinion therefore must be indoctrinated, because your way must be correct, which is typical of the righteous left attitude that dominates this OT forum tbh.

I don't need GB news to tell me things like critical race theory shouldn't be taught or pushing gender ideology on kids or that we should be be far better controlling immigration, that's because I know right from wrong and am not afraid to say so. As said I only watch select clips these days, I have other things to do. I know lots of working class people and these views are common, many people don't even know of GB News, they don't watch normal news I'd imagine, it's views based off the reality of life for them.

I could easily say same type of BS about you, clearly been indoctrinated by the mainstream media, who do spout some nonesense narratives at times and are happy to let things like 'a terribly white balcony' for the royals just slide, but I actually don't tend to attack or judge others in a condescending way like some do my way. There are some good discussions on there, of course it can be a shock to the system for many not used to hearing that side of an argument. Doesn't mean I agree with everything.
 
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Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Pathetic it really is. 🤬

It’ll be banned completely in a few years time replaced by a rainbow flag which will please a few.
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I think you might be a bit off on your timeframe: Team GB accused of ‘defacing’ Union flag by turning it pink and purple for Paris Olympics

The British Olympic Association is facing a backlash after a range of ‘Union Jack’ flags went on sale in different shades of colour as an additional option to the traditional red, white and blue.

In a change from the plain-bolded colours that are most associated with the British Olympic team, designers introduced options with squiggles and dots across colours that incorporate shades of pink and purple in a desire to “push the iconic red, white and blue as far as we could”.
 
and in next week's episode of 'Fun with Flags' we ask, "When national flags are used as a basis for artwork for an international event, how should we respond to the gammons who use it as an opportunity to be offended?"
 
1966_and_all_that said:
and in next week's episode of 'Fun with Flags' we ask, "When national flags are used as a basis for artwork for an international event, how should we respond to the gammons who use it as an opportunity to be offended?"
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Simple we shouldn’t.
It’s the gammons who are doing the finger pointing coming out with crap saying it represents a racist party when it clearly doesn’t it’s the national flag for Christs sake and people shouldn’t forget that first and foremost.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Simple we shouldn’t.
It’s the gammons who are doing the finger pointing coming out with crap saying it represents a racist party when it clearly doesn’t it’s the national flag for Christs sake and people shouldn’t for get that.
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I'm relaxed about the artwork. It's gone on for years. People need to stay calm.
 
JJpool said:
It was ended as it was at the time, the slave trade. That doesn't mean there aren't elements of people committing illegal acts.

It was a crucial moment.

Something for Britain to be proud of.

Also...

'In 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all slaves in the Empire. Britain borrowed such a large sum of money for the Slavery Abolition Act that it wasn't paid off until 2015. This means that living British citizens helped pay for the ending of the slave trade with their taxes.'
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Wow, didn’t know that
 
JJpool said:
It was ended as it was at the time, the slave trade. That doesn't mean there aren't elements of people committing illegal acts.

It was a crucial moment.

Something for Britain to be proud of.

Also...

'In 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all slaves in the Empire. Britain borrowed such a large sum of money for the Slavery Abolition Act that it wasn't paid off until 2015. This means that living British citizens helped pay for the ending of the slave trade with their taxes.'
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So that’s why the potholes haven’t been fixed, we’ve all been paying off debts some of our ancestors made fortunes off
 
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