Is Critchley stifling creativity and flair?

Absolutely not.
Flair and creativity are not the first qualities that spring to mind at this level anyway.
There are only marginal differences between the top and bottom teams in the league and every game is a dog fight.
NC hasn't changed his philosophy from day one which is to play to win in every game both home and away.
Obviously some results have been disappointing but I don't recall any games where we haven't given less than 100% and that will do for me.
 
It is a conundrum as to why we're so poor going forward, imagine after pre-season someone telling you we were going to turn into a side that grinds out 1 nil wins with a rock solid defensive? You'd have told them they were off their head!

It does make for a frustrating watch at times this Pool side, it is a far cry from free flowing football - our passing almost always ends up going backwards. 29% possession last night speaks for itself in terms of ball retention and pass accuracy.

Ultimately we've been getting results this way, although it has come back to bite us in some games (Crewe, Wimbledon). Maybe he's realised this is the way to get results in this division after our poor start attempting to play his desired way? Maybe he worries about trying to change us tactically whilst picking up results, as if it fails when we're on a good run and near the play-offs he catches the blame.
 
TangerinePeel said:
It is a conundrum as to why we're so poor going forward, imagine after pre-season someone telling you we were going to turn into a side that grinds out 1 nil wins with a rock solid defensive? You'd have told them they were off their head!

It does make for a frustrating watch at times this Pool side, it is a far cry from free flowing football - our passing almost always ends up going backwards. 29% possession last night speaks for itself in terms of ball retention and pass accuracy.

Ultimately we've been getting results this way, although it has come back to bite us in some games (Crewe, Wimbledon). Maybe he's realised this is the way to get results in this division after our poor start attempting to play his desired way? Maybe he worries about trying to change us tactically whilst picking up results, as if it fails when we're on a good run and near the play-offs he catches the blame.
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The 29% stat was more of a reflection of them faffing about with it in their own half, which we weren't that bothered about because we were winning and had time to develop a defensive shape. It was that faffing that directly led to our two best chances, one of which we scored from.
 
tango94 said:
Absolutely not.
Flair and creativity are not the first qualities that spring to mind at this level anyway.
There are only marginal differences between the top and bottom teams in the league and every game is a dog fight.
NC hasn't changed his philosophy from day one which is to play to win in every game both home and away.
Obviously some results have been disappointing but I don't recall any games where we haven't given less than 100% and that will do for me.
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I'm not questioning the players workrate. My question relates to the way he sets Pool up and that ball retention and creativity seems to suffer as a result.
 
Wizaard said:
The 29% stat was more of a reflection of them faffing about with it in their own half, which we weren't that bothered about because we were winning and had time to develop a defensive shape. It was that faffing that directly led to our two best chances, one of which we scored from.
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You're not wrong there Wiz, but I think the line " It was that faffing that directly led to our two best chances, one of which we scored from " should actually read "our only two chances " and belies the crux of this argument.

Because we created nothing ourselves, now given we had KK Yates, Ward and later CJ and Mitchell that is slightly worrying for me. Largely as its not an isolated game, if it were I could get on board with the 'perfect away performance narrative'.

I just think to actually get out of this league you need to consistently create more than 2/3 opportunities a game.
 
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Wizaard said:
The 29% stat was more of a reflection of them faffing about with it in their own half, which we weren't that bothered about because we were winning and had time to develop a defensive shape. It was that faffing that directly led to our two best chances, one of which we scored from.
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True, but I felt we didn't help ourselves by giving the ball away. I also think we were lucky not to concede as they had two great chances themselves, even a poor side will eventually create something with 71% possession - it certainly would have been devastating if we had thrown another win away!

I just think it is supplementary to the fact we are great defensively, a team had 71% possession and we managed to win 1 nil away from home. I don't think there is any denying we aren't great going forward though, and I think that is down to creativity on the ball/pass accuracy - we certainly don't create many chances and I think we are lucky we have a striker like Yates who is banging 'em in regardless.
 
62years&counting said:
I'm not questioning the players workrate. My question relates to the way he sets Pool up and that ball retention and creativity seems to suffer as a result.
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I think simple answer is yes.
The first 2 months of the season we played lovely attacking football - triangles, one touch football, and a progressive 4-3-3.
Robson was our DM and in front of him were a list of AMs and Yates.

Issue was we were not winning. If we’d have stuck with it it may have delivered results in the end but the clamour was for 4-4-2. Big man up front, defensive midfielders, direct football and counter attacking. Calderwood drilling the defence.
This delivered results

So issue was should we have had more faith in the coach and let him spend the season building for the future regardless of results or be more pragmatic and accept poor football with real tangible results?
 
Chunkylad said:
I think simple answer is yes.
The first 2 months of the season we played lovely attacking football - triangles, one touch football, and a progressive 4-3-3.
Robson was our DM and in front of him were a list of AMs and Yates.

Issue was we were not winning. If we’d have stuck with it it may have delivered results in the end but the clamour was for 4-4-2. Big man up front, defensive midfielders, direct football and counter attacking. Calderwood drilling the defence.
This delivered results

So issue was should we have had more faith in the coach and let him spend the season building for the future regardless of results or be more pragmatic and accept poor football with real tangible results?
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I feel Critchley has changed it to such an extent (with the emphasis on negating the opposition) that the creativity needed to open up teams, particularly at home, has almost disappeared.
 
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I think that we're missing Madine. He holds the ball and allows the support to arrive. Without him, we tend to knock a lot of balls into the channels for Yates to collect. He does ok but two opposing centre backs can usually deal with that. I would always go with two strikers otherwise you are giving the opposition defence an easier ride. I was surprised that Simms did not get a run last night; his pace could have caused them real problems down the middle.
When KaiKai plays, he cannot be trusted to retain possession and I feel that the players are reluctant to run past him in case they get caught out. Unless the numbers are there then it's difficult to maintain pressure. Some decent crosses have gone in recently but no one has got on the end of them. It is also rare that any of the midfield run beyond the strikers to create pressure in the box. Is that stifling creativity through team tactics or do individuals sometimes need to be a bit braver?
Over the years though, whenever we score my first thought has always been, we need another. I think I was permanently scarred by the Chelsea game where we were 3-0 up at halftime and lost 4-3. At least we are now moving in the right direction on and off the field.
 
OldTimer said:
I think that we're missing Madine. He holds the ball and allows the support to arrive. Without him, we tend to knock a lot of balls into the channels for Yates to collect. He does ok but two opposing centre backs can usually deal with that. I would always go with two strikers otherwise you are giving the opposition defence an easier ride. I was surprised that Simms did not get a run last night; his pace could have caused them real problems down the middle.
When KaiKai plays, he cannot be trusted to retain possession and I feel that the players are reluctant to run past him in case they get caught out. Unless the numbers are there then it's difficult to maintain pressure. Some decent crosses have gone in recently but no one has got on the end of them. It is also rare that any of the midfield run beyond the strikers to create pressure in the box. Is that stifling creativity through team tactics or do individuals sometimes need to be a bit braver?
Over the years though, whenever we score my first thought has always been, we need another. I think I was permanently scarred by the Chelsea game where we were 3-0 up at halftime and lost 4-3. At least we are now moving in the right direction on and off the field.
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I was there for the 3-4 and a Man City game ending 3-3.
 
You could then perhaps go down the path of saying perhaps it's not the Critch effect, it's the Colin Calderwood one. Getting panned playing pretty football seemed to stop once he was onboard, and the results have come.
 
I was disappointed we didn't unleash Hamilton more last night - thought their defence looked shaky and if we'd had got the ball to him more we could have exploited that.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
Posted my own thread on this - I think the Calderwood effect has seen an upturn in results and a change in how we play. Critchley will condone it, it's a results business.
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Interesting.

Calderwood made the defence stronger. 4 defenders are 4 defender irrespective of application. The extra deeper midfielder, perhaps, but we won games playing well. Critch went with it because ultimately he had no choice. Calderwood was brought in for reasons and those reasons were always going to be applied. I'd argue without Calderwood Critchley would be gone by now.

What I think has happened is that NC has tried to re-establish his authority, hence the constant tinkering.
 
fcblackpool said:
Interesting.

Calderwood made the defence stronger. 4 defenders are 4 defender irrespective of application. The extra deeper midfielder, perhaps, but we won games playing well. Critch went with it because ultimately he had no choice. Calderwood was brought in for reasons and those reasons were always going to be applied. I'd argue without Calderwood Critchley would be gone by now.

What I think has happened is that NC has tried to re-establish his authority, hence the constant tinkering.
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Agree with most of that. Good theory on the tinkering - or it's understanding it's a long season and different players need rotating, or trying out different tactics, or setting up for the opposition. Who knows, either way it is working.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
Agree with most of that. Good theory on the tinkering - or it's understanding it's a long season and different players need rotating, or trying out different tactics, or setting up for the opposition. Who knows, either way it is working.
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The tinkering is only part of it. Personnel, subs, style are all his stamp of authority.

You'd really have to ask where we'd be if NC had CC in from pre-season.

I know I wasn't alone screaming back then that NC needed some exp. alongside and that should have been the priority back in June, not that much needed 8th AM (loosely).
 
Would love to watch us win with flair, but as long as we win.

I know we cannot win pretty every game, but not overtly happy at hanging on to a 1 goal lead and defending with 10 men back. Just letting them come on to us, makes it a nerve wracking watch.
 
Taking each game on its merits as far as I can see, isn’t that what good managers do ? He got it spot on on Tuesday wether you liked it or not. I was particularly impressed with the pressing, especially where Ka Kai pressed and forced the error for Yates to score. 😬
 
If I remember correctly 62 I think the Man City game ended 2-2
I was also at the Chelsea game. You don't forget these things !
 
In an ideal world we would play like we did early in the season when we had the ball, and play like we do now when we don't.
At some point he is going to have to come up with a game plan where we can have possession of the ball and effectively attack the opposition.
Scoring 1 goal a game is only a recipe for success if you have players like Baresi, Gentile, Maldini and Cannavaro in defence, Husband and Turton not quite at that level yet!
 
I was exited pre season, looking forward to full throttle, free flowing football, with loads of goals. We’ve just gone more and more into a scared, defensive shell, allowing the opposition to pass and attack at will. It’s a dangerous game and we were lucky to come away with a win last night against a very average team.
 
OldTimer said:
I think that we're missing Madine. He holds the ball and allows the support to arrive. Without him, we tend to knock a lot of balls into the channels for Yates to collect. He does ok but two opposing centre backs can usually deal with that. I would always go with two strikers otherwise you are giving the opposition defence an easier ride. I was surprised that Simms did not get a run last night; his pace could have caused them real problems down the middle.
When KaiKai plays, he cannot be trusted to retain possession and I feel that the players are reluctant to run past him in case they get caught out. Unless the numbers are there then it's difficult to maintain pressure. Some decent crosses have gone in recently but no one has got on the end of them. It is also rare that any of the midfield run beyond the strikers to create pressure in the box. Is that stifling creativity through team tactics or do individuals sometimes need to be a bit braver?
Over the years though, whenever we score my first thought has always been, we need another. I think I was permanently scarred by the Chelsea game where we were 3-0 up at halftime and lost 4-3. At least we are now moving in the right direction on and off the field.
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I've never recovered from losing 3nil at home to Bradford in the playoffs after leading 2nil from the first leg.
 
gjr69 said:
Scoring 1 goal a game is only a recipe for success if you have players like Baresi, Gentile, Maldini and Cannavaro in defence, Husband and Turton not quite at that level yet!
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7 1-0 wins so far this season would suggest otherwise
 
Let's compare notes at the end of the season. At the moment, since our terrible start to the season, we are. averaging 2 points a game and could easily be top of the league. If we make the play offs and even manage to get promoted, would he have been wrong? It could still go either way. We could carry on with our form and even improve it or we could drift away into mid table obscurity, but as it stands we are doing well so lets just see.

Teams are not going to roll over on the floor and let us dictate games, we have to battle hard to get the points. I wasn't expecting such a solid defence but I was expecting a far more attacking, guns-ho approach at the start of the season but that was never really going to happen, not without a creative maestro pulling the strings in midfield. However I will always take a clean sheet against us every week because get the defence right and the rest will follow. We may not make it this season, but I am positive we will next season.

It's about getting points on the board and we are doing very well at that. It's nice to see free flowing football but no team do that week in week out, especially in League 1 so games like last night were a tactical master class in getting 3 points away from home. They only had one shot on target in 90 minutes and we could have scored 3 or 4.

The O/P is trying to gather support for his "Critchley out" campaign so don't fall for it. For a manager in his first season as an EFL manager he is doing a very decent job and as we are progressing he'll do for me.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Let's compare notes at the end of the season. At the moment, since our terrible start to the season, we are. averaging 2 points a game and could easily be top of the league. If we make the play offs and even manage to get promoted, would he have been wrong? It could still go either way. We could carry on with our form and even improve it or we could drift away into mid table obscurity, but as it stands we are doing well so lets just see.

Teams are not going to roll over on the floor and let us dictate games, we have to battle hard to get the points. I wasn't expecting such a solid defence but I was expecting a far more attacking, guns-ho approach at the start of the season but that was never really going to happen, not without a creative maestro pulling the strings in midfield. However I will always take a clean sheet against us every week because get the defence right and the rest will follow. We may not make it this season, but I am positive we will next season.

It's about getting points on the board and we are doing very well at that. It's nice to see free flowing football but no team do that week in week out, especially in League 1 so games like last night were a tactical master class in getting 3 points away from home. They only had one shot on target in 90 minutes and we could have scored 3 or 4.

The O/P is trying to gather support for his "Critchley out" campaign so don't fall for it. For a manager in his first season as an EFL manager he is doing a very decent job and as we are progressing he'll do for me.
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Nothing of the sort and you didn't answer the question.
 
62years&counting said:
Nothing of the sort and you didn't answer the question.
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No he isn't. He's making us hard to beat and he is looking carefully at every game and choosing a team he thinks will win the game. It isn't always going to work but he's doing pretty well so far. Get the right few players in for next season and things may change a bit, but as it stands I am happy with the progress.
 
I'd say that it's a by product of Critchley stumbling on a formula that allows us to consistently pick up results and he's stuck with it - and I don't blame him. It's a results business first and foremost. That's not to say you can't have both defensively solidity and flair, so there is lot's of work to do and we've maybe gone too far one way. Personally i'm encouraged by the fact that we're consistently picking up results despite there being a ton of room for improvement. I think that bodes quite well.
 
fcblackpool said:
Interesting.

Calderwood made the defence stronger. 4 defenders are 4 defender irrespective of application. The extra deeper midfielder, perhaps, but we won games playing well. Critch went with it because ultimately he had no choice. Calderwood was brought in for reasons and those reasons were always going to be applied. I'd argue without Calderwood Critchley would be gone by now.

What I think has happened is that NC has tried to re-establish his authority, hence the constant tinkering.
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I'm not sure about all this Calderwood "love in".
He's part of the coaching staff, he was appointed as a replacement to David Dunn.
I'd be disappointed if Calderwood didn't offer a significant contribution because we'd be wasting a wage, likewise Garrity.
BFC from the Owner, the Directors, coaches and players is very much a team and that's the way it should be.
Next season we need the fans to be the final piece of the jigsaw.
 
Jim48 said:
If I remember correctly 62 I think the Man City game ended 2-2
I was also at the Chelsea game. You don't forget these things !
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It finished 3-3. We were 3-1 up with about ten minutes to go. City brought loads that day ; not as many as Everton and United, but still a hell of a lot.
 
62years&counting said:
I feel Critchley has changed it to such an extent (with the emphasis on negating the opposition) that the creativity needed to open up teams, particularly at home, has almost disappeared.
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But look at our form - there isn’t many owners or managers that wouldn’t trade theres for ours?
Maybe we can consider the entertainment factor when we are in the Championship

That said, I bet Stoke fans would prefer their long ball Pullis prem years to now?
 
No he isn't, but we have morphed from possession and pretty triangles to an emphasis on pragmatism and defensive shape as a starting point. Though it frustrates me a bit to watch at times the way we sometimes let the opposition hold the ball is an example. In a way I'm glad we've changed tack because it's the basis on which any team gets sustained success (unless they're Brazil c.1970 or similar). Whatever shape or set up we have (and I think we have a good degree of flexibility in styles thanks to some good recent recruitment and some good coaching), the thing that would brighten our play would be encouraging more emphasis on the early ball in behind rather than the possession ball across and backwards. Playing to the strengths of our forward and wide players who have good pace and improving movement.
 
I heard that big Gaz was doing some lovely pastel drawings and Critch came in and pushed the easel over and said "we'll have none of that"

Something similar happened with Ethan Robson's attempts to publish a small pamphlet of poems. Critch found it in his kit bag and read them all out to the changing room in a funny voice.

Ethan has never been the same since.

Bez has been banned from taking euphonium lessons as well.
 
td53 said:
I heard that big Gaz was doing some lovely pastel drawings and Critch came in and pushed the easel over and said "we'll have none of that"

Something similar happened with Ethan Robson's attempts to publish a small pamphlet of poems. Critch found it in his kit bag and read them all out to the changing room in a funny voice.

Ethan has never been the same since.

Bez has been banned from taking euphonium lessons as well.
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td53 ha ha that was very funny. I want you to be my comedy script writer
 
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