Interesting test for Sadler

Poolfan2

Poolfan2

Well-known member
I suppose a big offer for Jerry Yates will be an interesting test for Simon Sadler.
Yates is obviously loved by Blackpool fans, will be key to a Championship campaign and has plenty of time left on his contract.
However, a few million extra in the coffers and an opportunity for the recruitment team to show their worth might also play a part.

In terms of how I feel as a test, I think it would be ludicrous to sell him on a number of fronts.

1. Jerry won't be 'stepping up a level' as he'll still be in the Championship (and I'd have understood if we'd stayed in League One)
2. He's going to a club who can only afford him as they'll be selling one of their own and have surplus cash
3. Rovers have no ambition themselves if they are 'cashing in' on players
4. There is a feel good factor around Bloomfield Road which would be dented with such a move.
5. As a club, we will have a huge financial windfall from the Championship this season and should arguably reap the reward to fill last years losses

In Sadler we Trust, and on this occasion, I really hope he's not blinded by cash.
 
Poolfan2 said:
I suppose a big offer for Jerry Yates will be an interesting test for Simon Sadler.
Yates is obviously loved by Blackpool fans, will be key to a Championship campaign and has plenty of time left on his contract.
However, a few million extra in the coffers and an opportunity for the recruitment team to show their worth might also play a part.

In terms of how I feel as a test, I think it would be ludicrous to sell him on a number of fronts.

1. Jerry won't be 'stepping up a level' as he'll still be in the Championship (and I'd have understood if we'd stayed in League One)
2. He's going to a club who can only afford him as they'll be selling one of their own and have surplus cash
3. Rovers have no ambition themselves if they are 'cashing in' on players
4. There is a feel good factor around Bloomfield Road which would be dented with such a move.
5. As a club, we will have a huge financial windfall from the Championship this season and should arguably reap the reward to fill last years losses

In Sadler we Trust, and on this occasion, I really hope he's not blinded by cash.
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A lot of truth there, but it's not entirely objective. Counter argument...

1. Sadler has said we need to sell players to help fund the project. He's pumped a lot in already, more than he anticipated.
2. Yates was worth 200k 12 months ago.
3. Critch has got the best out of him.
4. Take out his penalties and he's not been a prolific scorer. Simms looks more prolific.
5. Lavery may already be a direct replacement. So maybe we could use a big Yates fee to strengthen elsewhere, squad or infrastructure.

If a sizeable bid comes in, all this will need consideration.
 
If the money is right he will be gone. A cheeky bid for Simms wouldn't go amiss if that happened. I hope he stays, but this is a business too. What if he flops this season, he will be worth £200k again, if he excels then he will be worth 15 million, that's the dilemma.
 
Jerry would be a huge miss if sold on.

But is that the type of club Sadler wants to build? - we have to respect his decision if so…

It would be very shrewd business if we picked him up for what 300/400k & sold him for 4/5/6 million, for which can be distributed into both infrastructure & team… the Brentford approach.

Maybe laverty was a like for like replacement after all!
 
I doubt he 'll sell Yates. I think he 'll go with Critch's thoughts on whether he thinks jerry can cut it in the Championship
 
We are in a strong position from a negotiation standpoint (same level of football, number of years left on contract, settled player, etc) so can extract maximum price. If I was Sadler I would be looking at a minimum £6m and closer to £10m - otherwise its a walkaway.
 
voyeur said:
A lot of truth there, but it's not entirely objective. Counter argument...

1. Sadler has said we need to sell players to help fund the project. He's pumped a lot in already, more than he anticipated.
2. Yates was worth 200k 12 months ago.
3. Critch has got the best out of him.
4. Take out his penalties and he's not been a prolific scorer. Simms looks more prolific.
5. Lavery may already be a direct replacement. So maybe we could use a big Yates fee to strengthen elsewhere, squad or infrastructure.

If a sizeable bid comes in, all this will need consideration.
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Agree with the above, would also add. In his statement a couple of days ago SS said he didn’t have the wherewithal to buy success. By implication he meant we are a selling club, I would like Jerry to stay but if a suitable offer was made he would be sold. Lavery may be as good or even better, if so he would also be sold for a large profit, that’s just the way it is. There are a lot more rough diamonds around waiting to be found and polished, as long as the recruitment team keep finding them we will not just survive but thrive.
 
hertfordseasider said:
If the money is right he will be gone. A cheeky bid for Simms wouldn't go amiss if that happened. I hope he stays, but this is a business too. What if he flops this season, he will be worth £200k again, if he excels then he will be worth 15 million, that's the dilemma.
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Exactly. And if the money is enough to tempt us to sell then we'll need to build a new forward line, but we've already got Lavery for nowt. Maybe Simms will return on loan. So we could maybe have 5m to help fund the training ground. That's how it works, I think.
 
I expect other clubs in the Championship will be sniffing around too. Money talks and if you can get over 5 million for a £200k investment it's going to be very tempting.
 
If an offer comes in for £6-£8m then it might tempt the club. However, I don't think Rovers or anyone else will go that high so I don't think he'll be sold. As said before, I think Rovers believe they can get him on the cheap due to the perception that we're the poor neighbours and we've sold other players cheaply in the past. We're in the same league now and based purely on the level he's playing at, whether they like it or not it is a sideways move.
I don't think Critchley is done improving him yet, and if I were a betting man I'd be putting money on him staying, and in 12 months time we'll be getting offers that would comfortably break our incoming transfer record.

Money talks, yes, but there are a lot of factors here that tells me we'll hang on to him for another season.
 
I was thinking about this when watching the reel of all Jerry’s goals. I think the player might want to stay and see how far BFC can go but silly money and we would sell and it’s down to the player. He’s a good penalty taker for sure but they make his stats appear very good when perhaps he would score maybe 8 to 10 goals in most teams with a captain who takes pens for instance.
 
BFC_53 said:
If an offer comes in for £6-£8m then it might tempt the club. However, I don't think Rovers or anyone else will go that high so I don't think he'll be sold. As said before, I think Rovers believe they can get him on the cheap due to the perception that we're the poor neighbours and we've sold other players cheaply in the past. We're in the same league now and based purely on the level he's playing at, whether they like it or not it is a sideways move.
I don't think Critchley is done improving him yet, and if I were a betting man I'd be putting money on him staying, and in 12 months time we'll be getting offers that would comfortably break our incoming transfer record.

Money talks, yes, but there are a lot of factors here that tells me we'll hang on to him for another season.
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It's an interesting scenario. There are factors on both sides of the equation. I suspect we may not get an offer above 4m and will then decide to keep him, but 5m might persuade us to part. Something like that anyway.
 
Jerry would probably want to stay, but money talks, if someone like Blackburn come in for him and an offer is accepted / and they double or treble his wages, we can’t blame him.
 
Goforgoal said:
Agree with the above, would also add. In his statement a couple of days ago SS said he didn’t have the wherewithal to buy success. By implication he meant we are a selling club, I would like Jerry to stay but if a suitable offer was made he would be sold. Lavery may be as good or even better, if so he would also be sold for a large profit, that’s just the way it is. There are a lot more rough diamonds around waiting to be found and polished, as long as the recruitment team keep finding them we will not just survive but thrive.
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He said he didn't have the wherewithal to buy success to the next level and that he needed the support of the fans. I suspect that would apply to the vast majority of Clubs in the Championship really, when you consider the sort of cash sloshing around in Parachute Payments etc. As things stand there appears to be very limited information available about SS likely wealth and perhaps he might prefer to keep it that way.

I'm also not sure that his statement means that "by implication we are a selling club" whatever that actually means in any case. I mean arguably any Club is a 'Selling Club' if the right offer comes along and the player wants to move on, though clearly the further down the footballing pyramid you sit, then the more exposed to that you become. So the reality is that we are all "Selling Clubs" and we are all "Buying Clubs" and ideally we manage that process so that a) We generally sell players for more than we paid and b) We continue to manage our footballing progress through effective recruitment and succession planning.

Given his scoring record and recognition in L1 this season, Yates is bound to be attracting attention and it won't just be Blackburn Rovers who are expressing an interest. Of course, certain Clubs may wish to test Blackpool / Sadlers mettle, but in Mansford (ex-agent) and John Stephenson, we ought to have the expertise to value our assets and maximise our transfer dealings.
 
You don’t buy a football club and have ambition like SS if you are short of £5m.

No need to sell. The business SS is in has been thriving for the last couple of years despite Covid. Loads ...... 💰😎
 
This Jerry “saga” looks like a good test/example of the new football world we are joining. Interesting, exciting and professional. BFC are growing up.
 
voyeur said:
No it doesn't. Not on my phone anyway.
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I'd agree with DSOTL...They look more like reasons that the player wouldn't be interested. In fact you could sum the whole point up by saying "Rovers are not particularly more ambitious or attractive than us"
 
Forget the potential fee we may get for him however big or small a club comes in and offers a huge increase in wages he's a goner.
He doesn't love the club that much if someone offered him 20k a week which is easily attenable in the Championship and we won't be paying that.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I'd agree with DSOTL...They look more like reasons that the player wouldn't be interested. In fact you could sum the whole point up by saying "Rovers are not particularly more ambitious or attractive than us"
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I'd agree that Rovers are not more attractive or ambitious than us, possibly less so. They'll have a much more expensive wage structure though, and could probably double his wages.
 
All our players have a price, let's not kid ourselves otherwise, the difference is that price will be much higher than the Oystons would negotiate and would also be re-invested back into the club. If Rovers want Jerry and have £15M burning a hole in their pocket it will be interesting to see how much they value Yates at. I suspect they want to pick him up for a bargain price, in which case they'll be given short, shrift.
 
Really hope the club doesn’t sell Jerry this season at any price. Would love to see what the lad can achieve at a higher level.
 
Money coming into the club would be a HUGE bonus - as long as he doesn't go to another Championship club.
 
I love Jerry, but tbh, I'm pretty calm about the whole situation. We've now got an owner, a transfer committee and a head coach and coaching team with a proven track record of success and I'm happy to go along with whatever they decide.

One thing we can be sure of is that whatever money we receive, it will be reinvested for the betterment of the football club under Sadler.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
He said he didn't have the wherewithal to buy success to the next level and that he needed the support of the fans. I suspect that would apply to the vast majority of Clubs in the Championship really, when you consider the sort of cash sloshing around in Parachute Payments etc. As things stand there appears to be very limited information available about SS likely wealth and perhaps he might prefer to keep it that way.

I'm also not sure that his statement means that "by implication we are a selling club" whatever that actually means in any case. I mean arguably any Club is a 'Selling Club' if the right offer comes along and the player wants to move on, though clearly the further down the footballing pyramid you sit, then the more exposed to that you become. So the reality is that we are all "Selling Clubs" and we are all "Buying Clubs" and ideally we manage that process so that a) We generally sell players for more than we paid and b) We continue to manage our footballing progress through effective recruitment and succession planning.

Given his scoring record and recognition in L1 this season, Yates is bound to be attracting attention and it won't just be Blackburn Rovers who are expressing an interest. Of course, certain Clubs may wish to test Blackpool / Sadlers mettle, but in Mansford (ex-agent) and John Stephenson, we ought to have the expertise to value our assets and maximise our transfer dealings.
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I wasn’t intimating we would, or should, sell anyone on the cheap. Far from it, but when Sadler first took over he specifically said the longer term project was to recruit younger players and establish a good academy with the aim of making the club self financing. Therefore that means what I said re being a selling club, the whole business model is about maximising assets. Most other clubs try to do what he is determined we won’t ie. accrue tons of debt in an attempt to buy success ala Sunderland, look what happened there. Wgan another when Dave Whelan pulled out disaster. We have to be realistic and if we want a club for our descendants to support, live within our means.
 
As I put on the other thread on this subject, if Jerry is made available then others will be interested, not just Rovers. That will drive up the price. You don't sell your valuable asset to the first bidder, you test the market. I think we could get more for him. Personslly, I wouldn't even consider selling Jerry at this stage and we are under no pressure to sell. If he has a good season ahead he will be worth a lot more and he is important to consolidate our place in tha championship, which is a lot more valuable than a quick £3m to £4m now.
 
I agree that all clubs are selling clubs if the right offer comes along and that isn't necessarily a bad thing but a realistic thing. Our business model is not too much different from Norwich and Brentford and I don't have any issue with it as the money will be reinvested. The problems come when the money is taken out of the club so the budget or club never develops and you keep needing to pull rabbits out of your hat every year with cheap signings which isn't realistic.
 
The difficulty in the modern game is balancing the desire to keep your better players to help you progress with the realities of contracts being run down and losing them for less than they're worth. If Jerry stays and has a good/great first season in the Championship then we hopefully benefit, but also we run the risk of length of deal limiting his true value if bigger clubs come calling.

The key here is having a very strong network of scouts and a well thought out process of recruitment so that when you lose someone - or offers come in - you can make better judgements on whether the offer is worth it in terms of what you can get in return.

As an aside, I'd suggest there is no chance of us signing Simms on anything other than a loan deal. The kid hadn't even played in front of a proper crowd before the Oxford match and has obvious raw potential that Everton won't be letting hold of just yet. Unless we're willing or capable of paying 8 figures. Which clearly we won't be.
 
voyeur said:
I'd agree that Rovers are not more attractive or ambitious than us, possibly less so. They'll have a much more expensive wage structure though, and could probably double his wages.
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Of course they will have a different wage structure, but that isn't a reason for us not to sell either... Like DSOTL said, the OP is a list of reasons that might make Jerry not wish to go as opposed to a list of reasons for us not to sell him. All of which can be summed up by saying (in a nutshell) "Rovers are shitter than us". Of course they're not shitter than us... They're actually a more established Championship Side with more available cash to spend and as you say, they will likely have a much more attractive wage structure.

Goforgoal said:
I wasn’t intimating we would, or should, sell anyone on the cheap. Far from it, but when Sadler first took over he specifically said the longer term project was to recruit younger players and establish a good academy with the aim of making the club self financing. Therefore that means what I said re being a selling club, the whole business model is about maximising assets. Most other clubs try to do what he is determined we won’t ie. accrue tons of debt in an attempt to buy success ala Sunderland, look what happened there. Wgan another when Dave Whelan pulled out disaster. We have to be realistic and if we want a club for our descendants to support, live within our means.
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I don't want to labour a point, but I think it's important so I will 😂

To be a "Selling Club" at least to me, smacks of a club without any real ambition and instead a club that is forced to sell it's best players to all comers and who might struggle to maximise their assets. Essentially a Club who's competitors or peers can pick off their players at will. A "Selling Club" is what Blackpool FC has largely been for most of my time suppporting the Club.

As I said, in my presvious post, technically speaking pretty much every club is a "Selling Club" to a greater or lesser extent in any case. Though I'd say you can probably make a few distinctions...

"Selling Club" - A Club forced to sell their assets, due to being unattractive and financially strapped often selling for players for limited value, due to failure or inability to contract player assets properly. Generally speaking key assets will be tied to decent contracts and the Club will be able to attract decent transfer fees for those players.

"Developmental Club" - A Club that seeks to progress by adopting an approach of maximising revenue from player sales and effective succession and development planning. Key assets will typically be properly contracted and whilst the Club will not be desperate to sell at any price, it will be able to attract decent transfer fees and maintain progress.

"Buying Club" - A Club at the higher end of the football tree, who can (within reason) attract any players that they desire, has little need to sell key assets and can afford to compete on wages to retain players.

I'd say Blackpool, Blackburn Rovers and Sunderland should all fall under the second category or at least that ought to be their adopted strategy in order to develop the clubs in a sustainable way. Of course, Sunderland have tried, to their considerable cost, to try and bypass the developmental process and instead buy their way to success and, of course, that can sometimes work. It is however a much riskier approach.

So I'm not sure it's fair to describle Blackpool as a "Selling Club"
 
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Seasider3610 said:
You don’t buy a football club and have ambition like SS if you are short of £5m.

No need to sell. The business SS is in has been thriving for the last couple of years despite Covid. Loads ...... 💰😎
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Sadler has made his money by judging an asset and then maximising returns. If he had the mindset that as he has lots of money he can afford not to judge an asset and maximise returns he’d probably be losing money quicker than Owen Oyston in a court room.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Of course they will have a different wage structure, but that isn't a reason for us not to sell either... Like DSOTL said, the OP is a list of reasons that might make Jerry not wish to go as opposed to a list of reasons for us not to sell him. All of which can be summed up by saying (in a nutshell) "Rovers are shitter than us". Of course they're not shitter than us... They're actually a more established Championship Side with more available cash to spend and as you say, they will likely have a much more attractive wage structure.


I don't want to labour a point, but I think it's important so I will 😂

To be a "Selling Club" at least to me, smacks of a club without any real ambition and instead a club that is forced to sell it's best players to all comers and who might struggle to maximise their assets. Essentially a Club who's competitors or peers can pick off their players at will. A "Selling Club" is what Blackpool FC has largely been for most of my time suppporting the Club.

As I said, in my presvious post, technically speaking pretty much every club is a "Selling Club" to a greater or lesser extent in any case. Though I'd say you can probably make a few distinctions...

"Selling Club" - A Club forced to sell their assets, due to being unattractive and financially strapped often selling for players for limited value, due to failure or inability to contract player assets properly. Generally speaking key assets will be tied to decent contracts and the Club will be able to attract decent transfer fees for those players.

"Buying Club" - A Club at the higher end of the football tree, who can (within reason) attract any players that they desire, has little need to sell key assets and can afford to compete on wages to retain players.

I'd say Blackpool, Blackburn Rovers and Sunderland should all fall under the second category or at least that ought to be their adopted strategy in order to develop the clubs in a sustainable way. Of course, Sunderland have tried, to their considerable cost, to try and bypass the developmental process and instead buy their way to success and, of course, that can sometimes work. It is however a much riskier approach.

So I'm not sure it's fair to describle Blackpool as a "Selling Club"
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We will agree to differ, leave it to the owner and see what appertains. As long as we both support the club hope for success and celebrate being Oyston free everybody’s happy.🙂
 
Sadler is investing in player development. Our biggest asset at the minute is Critch. Players want to sign for us to get the career boost that he offers, he is a coach who can spot potential and polish it. It will be a conveyor belt. He is also orchestrating success on the pitch, lifting us into a higher income league.

A good coach is the most important thing, bad coaches can cost a club millions in poor signings and failure. Much easier to replace Yates than Critchley.
 
Goforgoal said:
We will agree to differ, leave it to the owner and see what appertains. As long as we both support the club hope for success and celebrate being Oyston free everybody’s happy.🙂
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Not sure what heppened there, but a complete paragraph was ommitted from my post... I've amended appropriately and the second category I was referring to should have read..

"Developmental Club" - A Club that seeks to progress by adopting an approach of maximising revenue from player sales and effective succession and development planning. Key assets will typically be properly contracted and whilst the Club will not be desperate to sell at any price, it will be able to attract decent transfer fees and maintain progress.
 
Also depends on what we stand to lose. If we sell him for £5 million and get relegated and lose £5 million in Championship TV revenue next year then there will have been no gain. If we keep him and cement our place in the Championship, there will be no incoming transfer money but another £5 million in TV revenue next year. Based on that, we'd need a £10 million bid to be sure we were covered.
 
clappers said:
Sadler has made his money by judging an asset and then maximising returns. If he had the mindset that as he has lots of money he can afford not to judge an asset and maximise returns he’d probably be losing money quicker than Owen Oyston in a court room.
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Clappers yes you are correct. I understand that Yates has a value. What is that value if he scores 20 goals with us and what is that value with regards to promotion to the PL though?

I know promotion is a long shot right now but ...... you never know 😉
 
I would imagine we already have a list of names we can get in that Critchley thinks could fill the void left by any single one of our players - Jerry included. I would imagine we’ll be looking at ways of improving the squad regardless of whether Jerry leaves or not. I’m certain we won’t let Jerry leave unless it makes a lot of sense financially and the club is sure we’ll be better off in the long run.

It’s difficult to let a good player leave but under the Oystons it was purely for money in their bank account whilst under Sadler you know that 100% of that money will be used to drive the club forward - whether that’s on or off the field.

I’m confident Critch can polish another rough diamond regardless.
 
Jerry Yates can help to firmly establish us in the Championship. If he's a success again next season we could be looking at serious offers from Premier League big guns in 2022. Why would we accept chicken feed from yokels when there's a real chance of shattering the 10 years old Charlie Adam fee?

Apologies for the repeat post, but I believe it's that simple an issue.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
Also depends on what we stand to lose. If we sell him for £5 million and get relegated and lose £5 million in Championship TV revenue next year then there will have been no gain. If we keep him and cement our place in the Championship, there will be no incoming transfer money but another £5 million in TV revenue next year. Based on that, we'd need a £10 million bid to be sure we were covered.
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No, it's about judgement. Sadler/Critch and colleagues have to make a judgement call based on all considerations. Like the cost of running the club, the cost of upgrading training and other facilities, the players we have identified as transfer targets, the perceived ability of Shayne Lavery to fill Jerry's boots, the affect of a huge wage offer to Jerry from another club, etc.

We may decide to twist and develop in other ways, or we may decide to stick and trust Jerry to lead our attack for at least half a season. It's hypothetical until a tempting bid arrives though, and it may never happen.
 
If someone offers over 5 million in the current climate for a striker who is unproven above league one (and prior to last year unproven above league two) level then the club will, rightly, consider it.

Is yates worth more to us than picking 5x league one players up with the right attitude, profile and skill set to fill 3 or 4 immediate first team slots?

We trust the process with critchley, this is just the wider process the coaching team work within.

It's Brentford-lite at the moment until we have the production line in place to churn out 2 or 3 sellable assets who are ready to step up to the next level every summer.

Yes we've been promoted, but in terms of the contract Jerry would be offered at rovers or forest or wherever, we're not going to try to compete with that at this stage, that's not the route we're going down. That's not to say the players won't be rewarded here, but if someone is paying 5m for a striker they're also going to pay them 20k a week as a minimum, we're years away from that at the moment.

This isn't like the past though, players won't just be sold to cash in. There will be plans in place for every eventuality and everyone will have a value and a plan for how to spend that money if they do go (and if we're doing it properly, spend that money before we sell because then other clubs don't hike up their prices).
 
voyeur said:
No, it's about judgement. Sadler/Critch and colleagues have to make a judgement call based on all considerations. Like the cost of running the club, the cost of upgrading training and other facilities, the players we have identified as transfer targets, the perceived ability of Shayne Lavery to fill Jerry's boots, the affect of a huge wage offer to Jerry from another club, etc.

We may decide to twist and develop in other ways, or we may decide to stick and trust Jerry to lead our attack for at least half a season. It's hypothetical until a tempting bid arrives though, and it may never happen.
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The running of the club and training ground etc would have all been factored in when SS made his bid for BFC.
 
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