JJpool
Well-known member
In his living room? Bit odd.
If the squad isn't any good...
- Thread starter straightatthewall
- Start date
Burnnazzer
Well-known member
There is no evidence to support this. Go through each players performances individually and they are short. I agree that Critchley is unwilling to adapt but how many would the top teams change for their players and I guess there won’t be many. Peterborough didn’t want Norburn, Charlton didn’t want Morgan, Joseph was always on loan, Coulson and Byers were not first team regulars, so on and so on. I find it hard to believe they came for more money. Part of me thinks this squad overachieved, but I do think the players are as mediocre as the manager. Time will tell.
TimperleyTangerine
Well-known member
The squad was easily good enough for top 6. You just don’t get some of the results we’ve had without being good. As I’ve said elsewhere, those better results / performances have come against teams that want to play. NC has been unable / unwilling to change when teams play negatively against us.
That said, a major clear out is needed. Marv will likely go, Connolly and Virtue are surplus to requirements and Thompson may leave on a permanent. Lavery would be best moving on for his sake, as he’s gone backwards this season and I don’t see NC reviving him. With a new manager I’d keep him. I like Beesley, but I’d prefer to develop Kouassi, who I think has much more to come. He’s different, he doesn’t always want to run in behind and we need a hold up forward. I’m struggling with Joseph, but he’s contracted and I don’t see clubs queuing up to buy him.
Of the loan players, I’m not sure we’ll take a punt on Rhodes. Byers is vanilla and his struggling parent club didn’t think he was good enough for a place in the Championship. Coulson, just no, purely brought in to fit the ridiculous system. He’s done ok, but how was he an improvement on Dale, just madness!
Dembeje, I’m trying not to think about life without him.
CJ I like, always have, but he is looking more lost with each passing match. Like Lavery, it might be better for a fresh start elsewhere. I’m sure both would attract bids.
We need a new spine and I’d start with Charlie Hughes from Wigan. Sadly, he’ll most likely be off to a Championship club, but I’d like to see us show intent and at least make a strong bid. For me he’s the best central defender in L1 and with lots of scope. We have missed Kenny, and at least 1 quality midfielder is needed. Norburn needs to pull his socks up, but he’s being killed by the system. We need at least 1 quick goal scoring forward and 2 proper wide players, plus Apter.
In the Dembele role I’d be looking at Chris Conn-Clarke from Altrincham. A player who can make things tick and scores goals. He’s potentially someone we can make money with, because he’s still got development to come. Not currently a player for every minute every match, but he’s different. He’s not though a NC type player.
Top of the wish list is a new manager, a clear out and recruitment of players that will ultimately be good enough for Championship.
That said, a major clear out is needed. Marv will likely go, Connolly and Virtue are surplus to requirements and Thompson may leave on a permanent. Lavery would be best moving on for his sake, as he’s gone backwards this season and I don’t see NC reviving him. With a new manager I’d keep him. I like Beesley, but I’d prefer to develop Kouassi, who I think has much more to come. He’s different, he doesn’t always want to run in behind and we need a hold up forward. I’m struggling with Joseph, but he’s contracted and I don’t see clubs queuing up to buy him.
Of the loan players, I’m not sure we’ll take a punt on Rhodes. Byers is vanilla and his struggling parent club didn’t think he was good enough for a place in the Championship. Coulson, just no, purely brought in to fit the ridiculous system. He’s done ok, but how was he an improvement on Dale, just madness!
Dembeje, I’m trying not to think about life without him.
CJ I like, always have, but he is looking more lost with each passing match. Like Lavery, it might be better for a fresh start elsewhere. I’m sure both would attract bids.
We need a new spine and I’d start with Charlie Hughes from Wigan. Sadly, he’ll most likely be off to a Championship club, but I’d like to see us show intent and at least make a strong bid. For me he’s the best central defender in L1 and with lots of scope. We have missed Kenny, and at least 1 quality midfielder is needed. Norburn needs to pull his socks up, but he’s being killed by the system. We need at least 1 quick goal scoring forward and 2 proper wide players, plus Apter.
In the Dembele role I’d be looking at Chris Conn-Clarke from Altrincham. A player who can make things tick and scores goals. He’s potentially someone we can make money with, because he’s still got development to come. Not currently a player for every minute every match, but he’s different. He’s not though a NC type player.
Top of the wish list is a new manager, a clear out and recruitment of players that will ultimately be good enough for Championship.
Mark_GT
Well-known member
The problem we have - and it's a big one - is how we move on from this huge disappointment of a season. We could do with a hefty clearout of existing players and an influx of new, hopefully better ones. That will work against continuity at a time when we could do with a really positive pre-season and start. We also need to replace our loans, who have largely been by far our best players. At the moment it is hard to see where the spark is going to come from. It is highly unlikely to come from the current coaching team, so the best answer would be an exciting change in this department. That also feels unlikely.
clappers
Well-known member
Yep, very easy to blame the players when you are making excuses for inept coaching. If these lads are all sh|t then Critchley’s fingerprints are still all over most of them in bringing them in to the club.
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7YearCritch
Well-known member
Top 10 was never good enough for this season. It's a really poor league.
Burnnazzer
Well-known member
So you put our hopes for next season on a non league player. Please have we not had enough of bargain basement types. If you think C J is going to get us up then I wonder what you see in a player. Can run, but can’t head, cross, shoot, pass, tackle, and always looks bewildered. First player out for me.
poolseasider
Well-known member
I still can't buy into this we've a top 6 squad otherwise despite tactics players quality would have shone through.
Dembelle and Rhodes have proven that.
The rest far too inconsistent including our constantly subbed captain.
Dembelle and Rhodes have proven that.
The rest far too inconsistent including our constantly subbed captain.
fcblackpool
Well-known member
There's a lot in what you say.
I do think though you have to give the players you have the best possible platform on which to perform and this is system, position in the team, tactics and motivation.
You only have to look at the likes of DJ, Crainey and before them Mark Taylor who wasn't wanted at Hartlepool to see that played right players can be a lot better than you expect.
TimperleyTangerine
Well-known member
Suggest you read the post again, I said CJ should move on. As for putting hopes in a non-league player, again read the post and then do some research. He’s a full time pro and will be in the in the National League team of the year, and he’ll be in demand close season. I recall KO applying your logic to Vardy.
NewburyOne
Well-known member
It's a mixture of both. Critchley and his system doesn't get the best out of the players but is also not to blame for any of our forwards being unable to convert simple chances. Some of the players struggle to pass 5 yards, again, no system in the world would help.
tangerine_neil
Well-known member
Until Sadler pulls the plug on Critchley, this issue will remain. The temperature will continue to go from tepid to chilly.
Not particularly looking forward to a close season of the loans leaving and a filling the squad with a raft of low grade holding midfielders and centre backs.
Not particularly looking forward to a close season of the loans leaving and a filling the squad with a raft of low grade holding midfielders and centre backs.
A good read this one, lots of excellent views and suggestions.
One thing I keep coming back to - we hear a lot, and it's mentioned above here, is players who are unhappy being asked to do roles that don't suit them. If that is the case (and we don't know if it is) then what are the players doing about it?
Is it that bad that a senior player can't say to Critch something isn't working? I know something like this should maybe come from the captain as the mouthpiece for how others feel, but Ollie Norburn is generally doing what Critchley wants him to anyway, so maybe not the best example.
But we have other senior players who shouldn't feel put off in raising concerns, if that's how the squad feels on the whole. You hear about clubs having an open forum - my description, not theirs - where everyone gets to air their views freely. Do we do that? I've no idea, but if players aren't happy and not saying anything then something is badly wrong in how we analyse and prepare throughout the week. And that would ultimately come down to man management, which TBH I didn't put high on the list of being one of Critchley's problems - he's certainly got bigger ones than that.
One thing I keep coming back to - we hear a lot, and it's mentioned above here, is players who are unhappy being asked to do roles that don't suit them. If that is the case (and we don't know if it is) then what are the players doing about it?
Is it that bad that a senior player can't say to Critch something isn't working? I know something like this should maybe come from the captain as the mouthpiece for how others feel, but Ollie Norburn is generally doing what Critchley wants him to anyway, so maybe not the best example.
But we have other senior players who shouldn't feel put off in raising concerns, if that's how the squad feels on the whole. You hear about clubs having an open forum - my description, not theirs - where everyone gets to air their views freely. Do we do that? I've no idea, but if players aren't happy and not saying anything then something is badly wrong in how we analyse and prepare throughout the week. And that would ultimately come down to man management, which TBH I didn't put high on the list of being one of Critchley's problems - he's certainly got bigger ones than that.
From what we get to see I would say that you can tell when players aren't happy as they're either taken out of the team for a period of time or aren't at the club any more. Connolly lost his rag and seemingly with it his starting place for now after the Leyton Orient away game. Which is where we saw Jordan Gabriel subbed off at half time when he wasn't injured in an unfortunate gamble that didn't work with what happened to Andy Lyons. And we've had Owen Dale saying he'd never played left wing back in his career before but tried his best with it (which he did). And that is someone who Critchley has known, coached since a teenager and brought to the club so there was a disconnect.
Neil Critchley:
"We were happy for him to go there because they gave us a fee that was acceptable to the football club and he expressed his desire to leave.
“The one player that didn’t benefit from our system this season was Owen. He wanted to go and play on a more regular basis, and he thought Oxford would give him that chance. That’s happened so we all move on, that’s football- that’s the game we’re in.
Owen Dale:
“It was frustrating, but sometimes you’ve got to do a role for the team. That’s important, but I feel at my best, and my strengths too, are higher up the pitch.
“That’s what I want come here and do, and show. It’s pretty perfect for me, it’s how I want to play – out wide with the licence to come inside.
Burnnazzer
Well-known member
Wow National team of the year. I want players who will be good enough to get us up and stay there. Preferably with a bit of physical presence, something we lack. Not some he may be good enough but probably not.
Burnnazzer
Well-known member
KO didn’t sign Vardy because he didn’t like spending money, he neither cared or knew how good he was.
tangerine_neil
Well-known member
This really annoys me about Critchley.
Constantly playing them out of position, asking them to perform unfamiliar roles, forcing them into his rigid formation, stifling any momentum, then dropping them when they (not surprisingly) look ineffective.
He’s the problem, not them.
Then he drops them like a stone when the have the audacity to challenge his supreme wisdom.
It’s like having a mad dictator in charge.
TimperleyTangerine
Well-known member
So if Dembele had been playing in the National League? The league is every bit as strong as L2 / bottom of L1 and you only have to look at the top of L2 to see that.
To turn your argument on its head, you don’t rate some of our players that have spent their entire careers at professional clubs. Not every good player comes from a league club.
Oh, and I said he wasn’t a player for every game, which you clearly didn’t read. Our business model includes identifying & developing new talent.
What do you think of Sonny Carey?
straightatthewall
Well-known member
If I've had a one main criticism of how we've recruited recently, it's that players in and system adopted don't seem to be aligned. Whether we're signing players from non-league or the Premier League, the reality is we need players that are suited to how we want to play.
Burnnazzer
Well-known member
If if if, he isn’t. And no you are non league because you have not been good enough to get in Division 2. Carey is slow and not good enough to be in a team that gets promoted. Just our squad player at best
Burnnazzer
Well-known member
Not including loans i would, with a free hand, keep only 7 of this squad. Then I would look to increase the physicality of the team. But yes it is all about opinions.
TimperleyTangerine
Well-known member
Thanks, confirms you’ve been nowhere near coaching or football development.
Shiggy
Well-known member
If the manager isn’t that good, how have a managed to stay in the top 10 pretty much the whole season?
straightatthewall
Well-known member
It's a good point Shaggy.
AmericanTangerine
Well-known member
Because the squad is too good to finish anywhere outside of top 10.
Burnnazzer
Well-known member
If only you knew
TimperleyTangerine
Well-known member
Likewise, but let’s just agree new recruits are needed.
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straightatthewall
Well-known member
Playing Henry Kissinger for a moment, I think you're both right regarding recruitment. There will need to be a balance between proven quality at the level and some rough diamonds to polish from below. Plus the usual smattering of kids from above that are totally hit and miss in their ability.
Agree with Nazzer around physicality. We've definitely been too lightweight for the league on too many occasions this season.