I presume those who are against NC because he left...

ForeverTangerine said:
A professional player’s career is a short one and he has to make the best decisions he (or his agent) can, whereas a manager can go on and on until he is a dinosaur (as we all know). So in that respect you can’t really compare Josh’s return to Critchleys

As far as NC saying goodbye, that was just a lack of class, it didn’t bother me that much. What got me was our performances toward the end of his tenure. If he starts off the same way as he left then heaven help him and it won’t be long before the north start chanting “Steven Dobbies Tangerine Army” again.
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Footballers also earn a lot more than managers.

The point was to show that some who are having a go at Critchley for going, didn't do the same for Bowler, despite both leaving for higher cash really. One said bye, the other didn't.*

*Also see the other threads as regard NC, clearly there was some reason he didn't, as he himself references in that interview with SS saying he couldn't and people ITK have said there was a reason why.
 
JJpool said:
Footballers also earn a lot more than managers.

The point was to show that some who are having a go at Critchley for going, didn't do the same for Bowler, despite both leaving for higher cash really. One said bye, the other didn't.*

*Also see the other threads as regard NC, clearly there was some reason he didn't, as he himself references in that interview with SS saying he couldn't and people ITK have said there was a reason why.
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Well, I wish him all the best, but it takes some balls returning to a former club only too well knowing the expectations that await.
 
JJpool said:
But both left for more money, NC said he should have done better, but also said he couldn't...

He's not on social media is he like Bowler?

People need to get over yhr not saying goodbye properly.

People would still have been pissed he went even if he did.
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I'm over him leaving and am happy to give him another chance because he's a damn good coach. I don't buy the excuse that he was prevented from saying thank you when he left.
 
southshore said:
I'm over him leaving and am happy to give him another chance because he's a damn good coach. I don't buy the excuse that he was prevented from saying thank you when he left.
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It's clearly not an excuse, too many people heard the same thing and he even referenced it in the interview that he couldn't.
 
The way I look at it is fairly simple… Are you a man or are you sim kind of man-child…

If you’ve got hurty wurty feewings cos nasty Critchley didn’t kiss you goodbye, then that’s up to you. If you want to sit there dwelling in your own stink, then that’s up to you too.

Most people moved on around 48 hours after Critchley left, put his decision into perspective, understood there might be contractual reasons for the silence and focused on the future. Those same people now are focused on him being the best man for the job and looking forward to picking up where he left off.

I hope to be chanting his name and enjoying the journey and I won’t be giving the past any attention at all👍
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The way I look at it is fairly simple… Are you a man or are you sim kind of man-child…

If you’ve got hurty wurty feewings cos nasty Critchley didn’t kiss you goodbye, then that’s up to you. If you want to sit there dwelling in your own stink, then that’s up to you too.

Most people moved on around 48 hours after Critchley left, put his decision into perspective, understood there might be contractual reasons for the silence and focused on the future. Those same people now are focused on him being the best man for the job and looking forward to picking up where he left off.

I hope to be chanting his name and enjoying the journey and I won’t be giving the past any attention at all👍
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I’m a woman, but I’m with you 👍
 
20togo said:
yep, I know the time line but you didn't actually reference what my point was. sure, I don't blame him for going anywhere for more money and that's why he signed for brighton but if i remember correctly at the time we were trying to sign him from swansea he cited as wanting to be nearer his roots in scotland and brighton certainly isn't nearer than blackpool or swansea. in other words that reason came back to bite him on the arse. so my point is loyalty played no part back then as it wouldn't again if an opportunity came along for him to move on to better things. his roots are firmly in qos heritage and folklore. sorry, my computer is having a glitch and capitals aren't working unless i switch off and start again.
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In Brighton he was probably almost as close to his family than with Blackpool, if not in distance then certainly in time.
I would bet that Brighton were happy to fund his travel by air, whereas Koko would not even give him the petrol money for a five hour drive both ways. So I think your point about location is possibly irrelevant. Koko was the deciding factor.
 
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Archibald Knox said:
In Brighton he was probably closer to his family than with Blackpool, if not in distance then certainly in time.
I would bet that Brighton were happy to fund his travel by air, whereas Koko would not even give him the petrol money for a two and a half hour drive. So I think your point about location is possibly irrelevant. Koko was the deciding factor.
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nope, get in your car and drive to Dumfries and it's not much over two hours or two and a half as you say. To go by plane you've got to get to an airport , nearest possibly Stansted, check in and wait for your plane to depart. And then fly north to where? And then you've got to be picked up and get to your home. All round I'd say that is easily much longer. Sorry but it's not just time spent in the air is it?
 
20togo said:
nope, get in your car and drive to Dumfries and it's not much over two hours or two and a half as you say. To go by plane you've got to get to an airport , nearest possibly Stansted, check in and wait for your plane to depart. And then fly north to where? And then you've got to be picked up and get to your home. All round I'd say that is easily much longer. Sorry but it's not just time spent in the air is it?
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Gatwick to Glasgow, just over an hour.
If his missus met him at the airport then it’s probably about the same.

Anyway, I don’t think location was the clinching factor in the final decision at all. So the slur on his loyalty is irrelevant.
Instead of having to put up with Koko would mean one would likely accept other difficulties far more readily.
 
Archibald Knox said:
Gatwick to Glasgow, just over an hour.
If his missus met him at the airport then it’s probably about the same.

Anyway, I don’t think location was the clinching factor in the final decision at all. So the slur on his loyalty is irrelevant.
Instead of having to put up with Koko would mean one would likely accept other difficulties far more readily.
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You seem to be missing the part about where he has to get to Gatwick say from Brighton which is a 40 minute drive. He has to be there at least an hour before his flight in order to get out of the car, go to check in, and wait for the the flight to be called,assuming there's no delay. He then has to get off the plane, get out of the airport and then drive down to Dumfries. All in all significantly longer time wise than door to door from Blackpool.

I'd guess the deciding factor was very much based on finances as most decisions are when it comes to a player choosing where to go and I've no problem with that. But nevertheless, he still cited as wanting to be nearer home for family reasons and Brighton would not have been both in distance wise and time wise too. Just stating the facts.

I'm also not saying he should have signed for us either. That's his choice to make. As it will be if and when he moves on. That's life when it comes to football and really there is no such thing as loyalty in that regard which is the point I was making in the first place..
 
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But it’s still far safer than driving for two and half hours, without a break.
All responsible organisations recognise that.

You really are a fantastic poster. Just a little dig here and there and you are willing to go to the ends of the earth to justify yourself.
 
20togo said:
I don't want to be overly critical of Dobbie but I think you're overstating this loyalty thing with Dobbie. I recall back in the day when we were trying to sign Dobbie permanently as a player that he cited as wanting to be nearer his home and family in Scotland and where did he end up? Yep, the south coast at Brighton!
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Yes but he had the same geography teacher as Scott Taylor 🤔 🙄🤭
 
Archibald Knox said:
But it’s still far safer than driving for two and half hours, without a break.
All responsible organisations recognise that.

You really are a fantastic poster. Just a little dig here and there and you are willing to go to the ends of the earth to justify yourself.
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just simply repeating a point I made about ten years ago. Sorry if I don't buy into this loyalty malarkey thing that others seem to give so much credence to.
 
20togo said:
just simply repeating a point I made about ten years ago. Sorry if I don't buy into this loyalty malarkey thing that others seem to give so much credence to.
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And I do not agree with tarring everybody with the same brush.
Until we see differently, then do not cast aspersions on his character, please

Did you think and say the same thing about Jimmy Armfield?
 
Archibald Knox said:
And I do not agree with tarring everybody with the same brush.
Until we see differently, then do not cast aspersions on his character, please

Did you think and say the same thing about Jimmy Armfield?
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i haven't cast any aspersions. I've simply recalled what he actually said and what actually happened. As I said earlier that was his decision to make. Not sure of what your reference to Armfield is about. He never played for anyone else and neither was he manager here. And as I also said in my first post I didn't/don't want to be overly critical of Dobbie and if he'd got the job of manger he'd have my 100% backing. Maybe he would have excited me more than Critchley, in fact I think he would. My first reply was simply to a poster who talked of loyalty so for me it was relevant to say what I did.
 
You said “Sorry if I don't buy into this loyalty malarkey thing that others seem to give so much credence to.”
That’s a generalisation about all players’ attitudes.
I repeat, did you think the same thing about Jimmy Armfield?
 
Archibald Knox said:
You said “Sorry if I don't buy into this loyalty malarkey thing that others seem to give so much credence to.”
That’s a generalisation about all players’ attitudes.
I repeat, did you think the same thing about Jimmy Armfield?
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I repeat not sure of what your point is about Armfield.

I'm off out soon.
 
TangerinePeel said:
That is a significant difference. One did something, the other didn't do it then apologies for not doing it once he returns..

Bowler's farewell seemed very genuine, written by himself and he left when he only had 6 months left on his contract:
View attachment 15365

Critchley had just signed a long term deal, gave it the whole schpiel every week, gave it love hearts, badge taps and left to be an assistant manager without a word.

It was somewhat inevitable that both would leave eventually, Josh more so IMO and when he did he handled it much better even as young man. Absolutely no comparison between the two situations.

The fanbase will have to get over Critchley leaving without a word, and the way that happens is by being successful on the pitch. I'm sure if he isn't successful everyone will hate him even more, not only did he derail us by leaving he has the cheek to come back and fuck us up some more himself!
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You could also argue that Critchley made a big difference to Bowlers career & development and got the best out of him - which is the sign of a good coach.
 
Archibald Knox said:
OK, so you cannot sustain your opinion on all players’ lack of loyalty then. Your flush is bust.
You know full well what my question meant.
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nope, i don't. Not sure I've accused Dobbie of a lack of loyalty either. After all, he was never our player in the first place.
 
JJpool said:
Also didn't welcome Josh Bowler back after he left?

Let's face it he didn't have to go, could have said no to the massive pay increase and opted to stay at Blackpool where he was thriving.

But he didn't he went for more cash, he knew he wasn't even going to be involved really.

Yet he was welcomed back with open arms.

Critchley didn't leave well and didn't say goodbye, that's the only difference. He did actually leave to take up a top influential position whereas JB was just shipped abroad yet was welcomed back. 🤔

Now most know NC was not top of my list, I wanted a fresh start or Dobbie, but he's here now and is a good manager and done nothing but good things here results wise.

So what's the difference? Or are some people literally upset he didn't say goodbye properly? Surely not as that would be a pretty sad reason to hold a grudge. He's apologised.

There must be more too it. So let's hear it.
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I didnt welcome Bowler back. Quite right too, he was shite.
 
JJpool said:
Also didn't welcome Josh Bowler back after he left?

Let's face it he didn't have to go, could have said no to the massive pay increase and opted to stay at Blackpool where he was thriving.

But he didn't he went for more cash, he knew he wasn't even going to be involved really.

Yet he was welcomed back with open arms.

Critchley didn't leave well and didn't say goodbye, that's the only difference. He did actually leave to take up a top influential position whereas JB was just shipped abroad yet was welcomed back. 🤔

Now most know NC was not top of my list, I wanted a fresh start or Dobbie, but he's here now and is a good manager and done nothing but good things here results wise.

So what's the difference? Or are some people literally upset he didn't say goodbye properly? Surely not as that would be a pretty sad reason to hold a grudge. He's apologised.

There must be more too it. So let's hear it.
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Not saying something when leaving showed what a type of man he is , but was Critchley the real brains behind his success last time ,rumour says not . He then went on to two more jobs which he failed at spectacularly . Also will he have the same money as last time due to the East stand and the training ground being built . Will the atmosphere at the matches be tainted because I don't think he will be punching the air after each match. Will the players he left behind feel that they can trust him . Have we not just suffered for the last 12 months by having a manager that wasn't popular at the start of his tenure . Will there be less season tickets sold because of who he is . Is this enough reasons because if I think hard I could find somemore.
 
JJpool said:
You could say similar for NC who was classed a top coach, if he comes and performs above the level, he'll be a target for bigger clubs. He did that in getting us promoted and keeping a largely league 1 squad up comfortably.

Both left for more cash and opportunity, both could have showed loyalty and said they'll stay, but football rarely works like that.

The reality is had he said goodbye far more would want him back initially.
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Correction ,Far more would have accepted him back ,I don't think wanted is the right word.
 
tangible said:
All this talk about having a contingency plan. Not sure how that works in practice. Are we supposed to approach other managers in post and doing well, and say 'hey, if Neil screws up would you fancy being our next coach'? How many of these guys should we have on our contingency list, what if they get tapped up by someone else, change their mind, etc etc. Unless you are a massive club that's not going to work. The other way is to recruit your own young coaches and gradually move them up while they integrate into our own style of operating, which we already are doing. But even nearly man Dobbie might jump ship on that plan so you're back to recruiting further down the chain again. I think that's the only realistic 'contingency' plan available though.
On Critch's so called betrayal I'd say his first loyalty is to provide for his wife and family so I don't begrudge him that. Josh B didn't have that particular consideration. He didn't say 'goodbye'. Apart from 'so what', I'd say it's down to inexperience in that situation, maybe embarrassment and a bit of shame, maybe not really knowing what he could have said that felt genuine to himself. He certainly looked uncomfortable in that interview. He will have learned a lot from the whole situation. As he said, 'hindsight is a wonderful thing'. He's apologised, and that's all he can do. He should now be determined to prove what he did last time was not a lucky accident. All good.
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How much is an apology worth when you are forced to face the people you have betrayed . The apology could have come at any other time and actually meant something.
 
Everyone seems to be going on about him not saying goodbye, but although this doesn't help his case . There are a number of other reasons that he should never had come back. It showed what sort of man he is leading to a lack of trust from players and fans . It may have a small effect on ticket sales . It will have a large effect on people getting behind him . He has failed at two other clubs since and rumour has it that he was not the brains behind his success last time even though he was at the forefront milking every win. Finally this is so similar to when Appleton was employed . If he is not successful early days we will all be wanting him out . Simon Sadler seems to like gambling with our club and he seems to be losing more then he is winning.
 
20togo said:
nope, i don't. Not sure I've accused Dobbie of a lack of loyalty either. After all, he was never our player in the first place.
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Yes, you did ! And I quote you...
“I don't want to be overly critical of Dobbie but I think you're overstating this loyalty thing with Dobbie.”
You are rowing backwards very rapidly now. Such hypocrisy.
 
Archibald Knox said:
Yes, you did ! And I quote you...
“I don't want to be overly critical of Dobbie but I think you're overstating this loyalty thing with Dobbie.”
You are rowing backwards very rapidly now. Such hypocrisy.
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nope, nonsense. The poster I was replying to in the first place was talking about Dobbies loyalty. I said he was overstating it and I was right. After all, he was never ever our player in the first place so how could he be loyal to us! What's so difficult to grasp about that? He's never ever been our permanent player. Perhaps you haven't realised that! Read properly what i've said, not what you think i've said.
 
Archibald Knox said:
Yes, you did ! And I quote you...
“I don't want to be overly critical of Dobbie but I think you're overstating this loyalty thing with Dobbie.”
You are rowing backwards very rapidly now. Such hypocrisy.
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Come on Archie, play the game.

I don't think anybody is necessarily criticising Dobbie but it is clear that when it comes to loyalty, the first thing he looks after is himself.

There is no point in offering any defence - not sure that's the right word as Dobbie hasn't done anything wrong but nevermind - based on the difference in travelling times between Dumfries and Blackpool and Brighton and Blackpool when you had already told us that he signed for Brighton because he preferred Brighton's offer of a 3 year deal to Koko's 1 + 1.
 
WIZARD OF TANGERINE said:
Not saying something when leaving showed what a type of man he is , but was Critchley the real brains behind his success last time ,rumour says not . He then went on to two more jobs which he failed at spectacularly . Also will he have the same money as last time due to the East stand and the training ground being built . Will the atmosphere at the matches be tainted because I don't think he will be punching the air after each match. Will the players he left behind feel that they can trust him . Have we not just suffered for the last 12 months by having a manager that wasn't popular at the start of his tenure . Will there be less season tickets sold because of who he is . Is this enough reasons because if I think hard I could find somemore.
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How many times, he was told not to say anything and admitted he got it worng initially. He's not on social media so making a statement from on holiday was more difficult.

I think if we're winning and playing well fans will happily punch the air with him if we're on our way back up.

The ST sales probably would be more with a unifying figure and a cheaper price, far easier to market. However I think the large majority are over it now and we'll get a good decent amount to renew, although the price doesn't scream bargain and the plastic card charge is an annoyance.

Had we got all things right there was definitely scope to sell more, but let's see as actually most now see the logic in his appointment.
 
WIZARD OF TANGERINE said:
Correction ,Far more would have accepted him back ,I don't think wanted is the right word.
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Well whatever, he left and was told not to say anything at that point, he's admitted it was a mistake and it didn't fit with his previous character. People still would have been mad he left for a number 2 role and called his words nonsense, we woild jave heard....him leaving despite signing a new deal showed his words were meaningless, I imagine.
 
JJpool said:
Well whatever, he left and was told not to say anything at that point, he's admitted it was a mistake and it didn't fit with his previous character. People still would have been mad he left for a number 2 role and called his words nonsense, we woild jave heard....him leaving despite signing a new deal showed his words were meaningless, I imagine.
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truth is also, he wasn't the no 2 either as McAllister was the no 2. Critch was just on the coaching staff - not sure there's a no 3. Anyway he's back here now and I hope he does well.
 
JJpool said:
How many times, he was told not to say anything and admitted he got it worng initially. He's not on social media so making a statement from on holiday was more difficult.

I think if we're winning and playing well fans will happily punch the air with him if we're on our way back up.

The ST sales probably would be more with a unifying figure and a cheaper price, far easier to market. However I think the large majority are over it now and we'll get a good decent amount to renew, although the price doesn't scream bargain and the plastic card charge is an annoyance.

Had we got all things right there was definitely scope to sell more, but let's see as actually most now see the logic in his appointment.
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Ok ,lets see ,but if he doesn't start well ,this could be a bigger disaster then Appleton.
 
JJpool said:
Well whatever, he left and was told not to say anything at that point, he's admitted it was a mistake and it didn't fit with his previous character. People still would have been mad he left for a number 2 role and called his words nonsense, we woild jave heard....him leaving despite signing a new deal showed his words were meaningless, I imagine.
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I think I understand what you are trying to say ,but I don't believe that Villa told him that he could not thank the support he got from his previous club and even if they did I would have insisted in saying something even if it meant coming on to this website . He was a king to some people and word would have got round to all Blackpool fans if their King had spoken.
 
WIZARD OF TANGERINE said:
I think I understand what you are trying to say ,but I don't believe that Villa told him that he could not thank the support he got from his previous club and even if they did I would have insisted in saying something even if it meant coming on to this website . He was a king to some people and word would have got round to all Blackpool fans if their King had spoken.
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yep, agree with you here. Why would anyone try to silence him thanking the fans etc?
 
JJpool said:
It's not significant, he probably learned he had better do that from Critchley going anyway.

Both left for a big money move, showing zero loyalty. In Bowlers case he got the cash but his career has taken a dive. He could easily had stayed and become a pool legend, where his career was flourishing. But obviously money talks and that's how it works. The only difference is some words and people would still be mad even if an instant statement was released, probably call it meaningless words. At least he signed a new deal so when he did go it was big money for a manager. He's learnt his lesson now though from it all I imagine.

NC said he couldn't do as he wanted, why that is we dont know, we may learn more now with more probing questions if anyone is interested, but he did then do a villa video saying thanks etc, but by then people were already too upset. He should have found a way, but he's apologised.

It's only an issue in fans minds as people are coming out with all sorts of crap like jilted lovers.

If not saying bye properly is the worst to throw at him, its not much is it in reality.
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I definitely think he regrets it, I don't think he's fibbing when he says that.

If he had put out a statement, it would have been met with a lot of venom you're right but once the dust settled most would have still felt an element of respect for him. He lost my respect not saying owt, that was my main gripe as it made all the chest tapping and that feel false. It's such a shame he hadnt for whatever reason, as I think the fanbase would be united in welcoming him back (mostly).

I agree we just need to get over it now, I'll judge him on what he does on the pitch from here!
 
Seainsea said:
You could also argue that Critchley made a big difference to Bowlers career & development and got the best out of him - which is the sign of a good coach.
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I don't think there is any argument there, there is no doubting Critchley's credentials. The appointment makes sense in that regard, there is just pressure on him getting it right fast so the crowd don't turn due to the not very amicable way he left!
 
WIZARD OF TANGERINE said:
I think I understand what you are trying to say ,but I don't believe that Villa told him that he could not thank the support he got from his previous club and even if they did I would have insisted in saying something even if it meant coming on to this website . He was a king to some people and word would have got round to all Blackpool fans if their King had spoken.
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20togo said:
yep, agree with you here. Why would anyone try to silence him thanking the fans etc?
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Many people apparently ITK have said he was advised not to say anything, whether his agent or whoever.

He's also said he isn't on social media so not as easy as putting a quick message out. But He's admitted he's learnt from it and would've done differently.

He did put it out on the Villa video, but by then people had already lost it with him.
 
TangerinePeel said:
I definitely think he regrets it, I don't think he's fibbing when he says that.

If he had put out a statement, it would have been met with a lot of venom you're right but once the dust settled most would have still felt an element of respect for him. He lost my respect not saying owt, that was my main gripe as it made all the chest tapping and that feel false. It's such a shame he hadnt for whatever reason, as I think the fanbase would be united in welcoming him back (mostly).

I agree we just need to get over it now, I'll judge him on what he does on the pitch from here!
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See other posts, possibly badly advised not to say anything and other reasons like not on social media. He's admitted it wasn't the right way to do it and he regrets it.

Either way, people need to get over it.
 
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