Humanity is dead.

Curryman

Curryman

Well-known member
What is wrong with people?

A young woman loses her life due to some gun toting cretins on Christmas Eve and four others are injured, Bad enough at any other time of the year, but at Christmas it is nothing else but wicked.

Now a report of a lad being stabbed to death in Birmingham at a nightclub. Why?

I dread to think what will happen around the country on New Years Eve, someone somewhere will probably lose their life, no doubt a few will be injured by broken glasses or knives and everyone will tut and tut and tut, the snowflakes will pardon them for having had a bad upbringing and the other end of the spectrum will be calling for hanging to be re-introduced.

What the answer is I don't know.
 
Curryman said:
What is wrong with people?

A young woman loses her life due to some gun toting cretins on Christmas Eve and four others are injured, Bad enough at any other time of the year, but at Christmas it is nothing else but wicked.

Now a report of a lad being stabbed to death in Birmingham at a nightclub. Why?

I dread to think what will happen around the country on New Years Eve, someone somewhere will probably lose their life, no doubt a few will be injured by broken glasses or knives and everyone will tut and tut and tut, the snowflakes will pardon them for having had a bad upbringing and the other end of the spectrum will be calling for hanging to be re-introduced.

What the answer is I don't know.
Click to expand...
Conscription
 
70,000,000 people live in the UK, these incidents are a terrible thing to happen, but for the vast majority of us being murdered or knowing the victim of a murder won't happen.
Many, many more people will die through a combination of cold or loneliness in their own homes, or not get the treatment they require from the NHS, it just doesn't make for a dramatic headline in the media.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Well that’s my answer a life for a life as time behind bars obviously doesn’t work.
Click to expand...
Given the choice of execution or 60 years or more locked up I'd take execution.
Where this falls down is people being released after 10 years, obviously no picnic but not enough to deter some thoughtless dickheads. You are never going to deter the truly evil people.
 
gjr69 said:
Given the choice of execution or 60 years or more locked up I'd take execution.
Where this falls down is people being released after 10 years, obviously no picnic but not enough to deter some thoughtless dickheads. You are never going to deter the truly evil people.
Click to expand...
Most crimes are committed by ex cons who have already done time so what’s that telling us about the justice system?
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Most crimes are committed by ex cons who have already done time so what’s that telling us about the justice system?
Click to expand...
It keeps criminals out of circulation for a while but does little to re-educate or rehabilitate, problem is if a government were to suggest spending millions on doing this many voters would complain so it doesn't happen.
Therefore for most convicts the cycle continues because they are no more capable of leading a worthwhile life on release from prison.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Well that’s my answer a life for a life as time behind bars obviously doesn’t work.
Click to expand...
I know I’m being contrarian but the number of murders per year is on reality a very small amount so for me 20 years and out is enough time for a member of society to pay for the crime. Plus 20 years on all humans are different beasts (40 versus 20 etc) and a large meaningful chunk of life gone.

I would prefer to see (if I had to choose) stricter enforced penalties for home invasion or violence related crimes of any type. Most nob heads committing such crimes are just a total blight on society so best to remove them for a decent chunk of time from society.

However it’s as Lala says - discipline is missing from the start. If home can’t provide it then schools need the resource to do so and nip as much in the bud as it can at a young enough age. Prison already means we’ve failed
 
Some rather extreme views on here most of them antiquated and and arent going to prevent anything.
Put the snowflakes people are talking about on the people stabbing and bottling people are they which moves it onto who are the people doing it.
I might suggest that they are the products of the hate and vitriol and fear and loathing culture around this country from the top to the bottom but mostly coming down from the top.
The nation is divided, and we allow ourselves to be. But just to underline it is not the snowflakes or the left wingers, all those who just have a humanitarian bent wielding the knives.
For those who think severe punishments are the answer you are looking through the wrong window.
The rot is all around this on social media the news government and lock around the world, what you see on the smaller scale in this country is merely a reflection of that. A world ever-widening in its inequality, more and more people becoming disenfranchised, etc etc.
Happy new year 🙂
 
I used to think that the answer was to lock up anyone carrying a knife, since there's no legal reason to be in a pub or club with a knife. But nobody really cares any more. If a youth has a knife he will get a slapped wrist and be sent home. Police have got more important things to do like investigating incidents of men wolf-whistling women. Not that I'm blaming the police. They're just doing what they're told to.
 
tommytwojags said:
I used to think that the answer was to lock up anyone carrying a knife, since there's no legal reason to be in a pub or club with a knife. But nobody really cares any more. If a youth has a knife he will get a slapped wrist and be sent home. Police have got more important things to do like investigating incidents of men wolf-whistling women. Not that I'm blaming the police. They're just doing what they're told to.
Click to expand...
Police to blame not those serving officers they only get told what to do but the very top who'd rather investigate teenage boys in their underpants sat sending out offensive tweets than solve crime the general public want them to.

Over 97% of reported crime goes unsolved or lead to any sort of conviction so Crime really does pay in Great Britain.
 
seasideone said:
We have done that subject on here recently.

The real answer is enforcement of laws and much stiffer penalties - but not the death penalty.
Click to expand...
How would you feel seasideone if you're sat in court looking across at the person who has murdered one of your loved ones in cold blood?
How would you then feel if they then get taken away smirking in the knowledge that even though they've been given a 20 year jail term, with good behaviour they'll be out in 10?
Free to live their life how they choose, whilst you live yours not knowing if you're likely to bump into them in the pub, at the match, in asda?

If you can honestly say it wouldn't affect you then you're a more considerate person than I.
 
Wizzerboy said:
How would you feel seasideone if you're sat in court looking across at the person who has murdered one of your loved ones in cold blood?
How would you then feel if they then get taken away smirking in the knowledge that even though they've been given a 20 year jail term, with good behaviour they'll be out in 10?
Free to live their life how they choose, whilst you live yours not knowing if you're likely to bump into them in the pub, at the match, in asda?

If you can honestly say it wouldn't affect you then you're a more considerate person than I.
Click to expand...
That’s not what I have ever said and I think what you talk about should never happen.

What I believe is life should mean life.
 
seasideone said:
That’s not what I have ever said and I think what you talk about should never happen.

What I believe is life should mean life.
Click to expand...
A few years ago when I played for the handicap team at Blackpool Park we were playing Royal Lytham and St Anns. One of the opposition players was a high court judge.
In conversation it became apparent that there are not enough prisons to cope with crime in general and when I suggested the death sentence for murder he didn't exactly agree but he didn't say anything to disagree either.

As has been said about the police, others in prominent positions are only doing as their told😕
 
Wizzerboy said:
A few years ago when I played for the handicap team at Blackpool Park we were playing Royal Lytham and St Anns. One of the opposition players was a high court judge.
In conversation it became apparent that there are not enough prisons to cope with crime in general and when I suggested the death sentence for murder he didn't exactly agree but he didn't say anything to disagree either.

As has been said about the police, others in prominent positions are only doing as their told😕
Click to expand...
I often wonder with prisons - would they be as overcrowded if you got 20 years for robbery, carrying a knife or burglary etc??

I lived in a country for over 10 years where punishments are so harsh that there is very very little crime.
 
seasideone said:
I often wonder with prisons - would they be as overcrowded if you got 20 years for robbery, carrying a knife or burglary etc??

I lived in a country for over 10 years where punishments are so harsh that there is very very little crime.
Click to expand...
Can't get more harsh than the death penalty mate.
It should be a last resort BUT if these scumbags have that doubt in their minds they may think twice before taking another's life🤷
 
Wizzerboy said:
Can't get more harsh than the death penalty mate.
It should be a last resort BUT if these scumbags have that doubt in their minds they may think twice before taking another's life🤷
Click to expand...

In any case that’s not my argument against it (we have a thread on this already) - over the years there have been many miscarriages of justice - and you can’t reverse the death penalty!!
 
Wizzerboy said:
Let's just carry on then😕
Click to expand...
Yep because it doesn't stop the type of crime which leads to someone getting hold of a gun and shooting people in a pub or taking a knife out and stabbing a Birmingham lad.

We have a huge drugs problem in this country which then is associated gangs and their turf.
So easy to get gear delivered now it's like ordering a Pizza to your house Wattsapp groups or handing out drug menu flyers it's all so brazen.

We need to start at the bottom and break the cycle up of crime which hopefully leads to fewer murders but our woke policing is so crap you can get away with near enough anything in this country.
 
seasideone said:
I often wonder with prisons - would they be as overcrowded if you got 20 years for robbery, carrying a knife or burglary etc??

I lived in a country for over 10 years where punishments are so harsh that there is very very little crime.
Click to expand...
Certainly an interesting debate. I’m sure I’ve read many times that the vast majority of crimes are committed by repeat offenders.
I think the counter argument would be the US which locks up a significant % of their population and it’s still a lawless society there.

Social equality does play a role. Historic cultural view of rules seems to play a role too. Support mechanisms for post offenders also plays a part
Shit parenting seems to be a very high factor
 
A massive step to reduce such crime would be to readdress the stop and search laws.
The Human Rights Act has had a big say in the increased number of fatal stabbings as the Police cannot simply stop and search anyone without having reasonable grounds.
I was a Police Officer in the 70’s and 80’s in some of the roughest parts of Manchester. Ancoats, Miles Platting, Cheetham Hill, Monsall, Moston, Harpurhey, to name a few and I had no issues whatsoever stopping groups of lads making their way home at 3 in the morning after a night in Manchester.
Just using a bit of common sense “where are you going lads”. Do you mind emptying your pockets?”
No problems whatsoever! Occasionally, as you do with groups, there would be a gobby one but then his mates would put him in his place.
Imagine that nowadays!
Maybe parents should be held to account as well, but we are governed by a nation of snowflakes so sadly things won’t change.
Wilf was spot on in his O/P, there will be more fatalities over this coming weekend.
 
Eternaloptimist said:
A massive step to reduce such crime would be to readdress the stop and search laws.
The Human Rights Act has had a big say in the increased number of fatal stabbings as the Police cannot simply stop and search anyone without having reasonable grounds.
I was a Police Officer in the 70’s and 80’s in some of the roughest parts of Manchester. Ancoats, Miles Platting, Cheetham Hill, Monsall, Moston, Harpurhey, to name a few and I had no issues whatsoever stopping groups of lads making their way home at 3 in the morning after a night in Manchester.
Just using a bit of common sense “where are you going lads”. Do you mind emptying your pockets?”
No problems whatsoever! Occasionally, as you do with groups, there would be a gobby one but then his mates would put him in his place.
Imagine that nowadays!
Maybe parents should be held to account as well, but we are governed by a nation of snowflakes so sadly things won’t change.
Wilf was spot on in his O/P, there will be more fatalities over this coming weekend.
Click to expand...
Yes, because targeted profiling worked so well before and wasn't used by racist coppers at all.
 
thedevilsadvocate said:
Calling people snowflakes because they have a more caring outlook than yourself helps, doesn't it ?
Click to expand...
If calling someone a snowflake upsets you, I'm extremely sorry, perhaps you identify yourself as one.

You obviously don't know me or my outlook, I'm a very caring person, but I also believe in saying enough is enough and not making excuses for people who veer away from the norm or try and take the law into their own hands. I could give you a number of examples of me caring about others but won't bore you.
 
I don't think the answer lies in increasing punitive sanctions. Ask the question, why are these things increasingly happening? For me it lies in the emptiness of libertarian capitalism and its horrible exploitation of people and resources. Outside of this Western modus operandi there are extremes of religious xenophobia and autocracy. Also, having 8+ billion people on the planet does not help.
 
gjr69 said:
70,000,000 people live in the UK, these incidents are a terrible thing to happen, but for the vast majority of us being murdered or knowing the victim of a murder won't happen.
Click to expand...
This. 👍

For any family affected it’s horrendous. But the U.K. is actually a very safe place to live.

“Humanity is dead”.

FFS!!!

An OTT and sensationalist “look at me” op.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I don't think the answer lies in increasing punitive sanctions. Ask the question, why are these things increasingly happening? For me it lies in the emptiness of libertarian capitalism and its horrible exploitation of people and resources. Outside of this Western modus operandi there are extremes of religious xenophobia and autocracy. Also, having 8+ billion people on the planet does not help.
Click to expand...
I was about to post something similar but got distracted by tea, anyway yours is put far more eloquently than I could manage.
 
First of all the good news people have never been safer than they are today. The problem is violence and I'm sure it isn't only me on this board who has dished some out but only against other men who wanted to fight me. That was a fact of life for those of us growing up in the 70's. You can't eradicate senseless violence or psychopaths unfortunately.

What we can do is focus on violence, drop the ludicrous VAWG policy which only focuses on a small part of the problem and get the prison population down (and I mean at least halved) so those who are inside get some help from properly qualified staff. Decriminalise drugs and set strict time limits for sexual offences to be reported job done as well as it can be.

Happy New Year from AVFTT's Most Opinionated Poster Ever or do we need a poll on that 😁
 
Curryman said:
If calling someone a snowflake upsets you, I'm extremely sorry, perhaps you identify yourself as one.

You obviously don't know me or my outlook, I'm a very caring person, but I also believe in saying enough is enough and not making excuses for people who veer away from the norm or try and take the law into their own hands. I could give you a number of examples of me caring about others but won't bore you.
Click to expand...
I don't identify as a snowflake, I don't know anybody that does but I am a socialist so do I qualify ? Your O/P asks ' Is humanity dead ' and your opening question is ' What is wrong with people ' ? Perhaps you would consider name calling for a start ?
 
The problem with a death sentence is you’d have to accept that state murder of innocent people is going to happen. Or set the bar almost impossibly high for a conviction that you’d end up letting off many guilty defendants.
 
We send more people to prison than anywhere else in Western Europe. The justice system is shit, its not fit for purpose. Not because its too soft its because the system can't deal with the huge numbers of people in prison, they get locked up for 22/23 hours a day. They should leave with a certain level of education/skills to serve society, instead they leave and quickly return.
 
thedevilsadvocate said:
I don't identify as a snowflake, I don't know anybody that does but I am a socialist so do I qualify ? Your O/P asks ' Is humanity dead ' and your opening question is ' What is wrong with people ' ? Perhaps you would consider name calling for a start ?
Click to expand...
Your politics are of no interest to me, but I would point out that socialism throughout the world covers a vast area of thought, from so called Utopian Socialism, through Communism and Marxism to Anarchism. So there is a vast difference in its various forms, what I would term as the soft socialism to the vicious socialism, which in my mind borders on the far right of Nazi'ism.

I asked a couple of simple questions, which you have repeated, and most replies have been based on those two questions. Whereas you appeared to take offence and accused me of not being of a caring nature. I will simply reply that if i didn't care I wouldn't have spent four years working in the care sector before 16 years advising on health & safety in the same sector.

Right it's time for my beauty sleep, so I'll wish you goodnight.
 
Wizzerboy said:
How would you feel seasideone if you're sat in court looking across at the person who has murdered one of your loved ones in cold blood?
How would you then feel if they then get taken away smirking in the knowledge that even though they've been given a 20 year jail term, with good behaviour they'll be out in 10?
Free to live their life how they choose, whilst you live yours not knowing if you're likely to bump into them in the pub, at the match, in asda?

If you can honestly say it wouldn't affect you then you're a more considerate person than I.
Click to expand...
I’ve had to do just that. He only got 10 years for knifing my 16 years old nephew to death.
On passing sentence the judge said ‘I know this wasn’t how you were expecting to spend your 18th birthday.’
 
As a father of two daughters who socialise together, and with one of them based in Liverpool, this horrendous murder struck home for me.

For a young lady to see her sister shot dead, it must be the most unimaginably horrendous occurrence. In an instant the lives of close family members will be changed irrevocably. They’ll forever carry that hurt and pain, and they’ll never get over it. They’ll each take it to their graves. It’s so so sad.

We all have one life. It’s a precious opportunity for us all. It doesn’t last long. Maybe 100 years if we’re very lucky, but for most it will be quite some years less.

Those that use their precious opportunity of life to commit murder don’t deserve to exist on this planet, in my opinion. They are feral scum who on committing murder relinquish the right to live in the civilised world.

If it were my daughter shot dead, I would absolutely want the perpetrator dead. It wouldn’t bring back a loved one, but it would give some comfort to at least know the murderer was no longer living, no longer enjoying a meal at dinner time, no longer playing video games, no longer reading a good book, no longer looking forward to a possible release date. Why the hell should they be allowed those things when they’ve taken away a life?

The sentencing is far too soft in this country.

I’d bring back the death penalty but also have much stiffer sentencing for all violent offences.

Liverpool is rife with drugs gangs who are forever waging war, and using weapons, to try and gain control over their rivals.

The police force has lost its way. It’s too busy policing social media. Meanwhile real crime is going unchecked.

When there’s one of these shocking incidents they’ll go and disrupt the drugs gangs, but after a few days, it’s back to business as usual.

The country has lost its way too. We tut tut at Qatar and other countries for their social attitudes to certain things, but they must look at our high levels of crime, our drink culture, our drugs culture, our gang culture, our erosion of family values, our disregard for our elderly, and our knife crime, and they must surely think we are a failing country.

We are only getting worse. We need a drastic change. Stiffer sentencing is not only a deterrent, but it will keep offenders off the streets. Jail time should be hard time. Hard labour. No privileges or very few. It’s too easy. It’s too short. It’s not sufficient punishment. We are obsessed with rehabilitating peadophiles and murderers and violent criminals, when we should actually be more concerned about keeping them out of harms way from the law abiding and peaceful public.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top