Fracking vote today

bollieboy

bollieboy

Well-known member
The Government have called a 3 line whip on this. Let's see how Scott Benton and other local Tory MPs vote on this. I put money* on Benton supporting the overturning of the fracking ban.

* not through any of Benton's gambling company backers
 
Labour have set a trap for the Tories. By labelling the vote a confidence vote in Liz Truss's leadership they are offering Tory MPs the chance to rid the country of fracking and get rid of Truss at the same time. Of course, with the Tory whips making it a 3 line whipped vote then Tories can either lose the whip - which gives them no say in Truss's leadership - or preserve the influence of their letters to Graham Brady and vote against Labour's motion. In the latter case, Labour will have posters ready to go out in Tory constituencies where the MPs have voted for fracking.
 
The Labour motion was to ban fracking in the UK. Those who voted against the motion, and therefore, to retain fracking as a means of providing energy, included:

Paul Maynard, Blackpool North & Cleveleys
Scott Benton, Blackpool South
Mark Menzies, Fylde
 
Has anyone seen the BBC interview with Tory MP Charles Walker? I think that sums it all up. There are many good MP's who work for their constituents from the back benches but the party are judged on those MP's who covert fame and power on the Cabinet and as he says, they are just there for their own gain and don't give a toss about the people they are supposed to represent. This isn't just a Tory issue, it is across parties but Truss has made this countries political system a laughing stock worldwide. The people she put on her Cabinet were all sycophants but only loyal whilst it benefits them. They are a complete shower.

Thank good ness for the normal MP's who just want to get on with it.

Prediction: Truss to be gone by Friday. How the fuck did she ever get there in the first place? And take her cabinet with her. The Tories are toast and whenever there is the next GE it will be the end of them for years.
 
Add in Wallace too.

Paul Maynard, Blackpool North & Cleveleys
Scott Benton, Blackpool South
Mark Menzies, Fylde
Ben Wallace, Wyre
 
1966_and_all_that said:
The Labour motion was to ban fracking in the UK. Those who voted against the motion, and therefore, to retain fracking as a means of providing energy, included:

Paul Maynard, Blackpool North & Cleveleys
Scott Benton, Blackpool South
Mark Menzies, Fylde
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To be fair to them, both Benton and Menzies spoke strongly AGAINST fracking in the debate. They also said that the fact that they were being whipped in the way they were - and effectively threatened with losing it - meant they felt it impossible to vote for the motion.

They aren't the villains here. The Labour Front Bench were a bit too clever by half in the way they handled Opposition Day, and the Government was incredibly heavy-handed and crass in turning what would have been a momentary embarrassment into a memorable crisis. Remember, suspending fracking is a Conservative Party Manifesto commitment - and last night they coerced their people into voting the other way.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
To be fair to them, both Benton and Menzies spoke strongly AGAINST fracking in the debate. They also said that the fact that they were being whipped in the way they were - and effectively threatened with losing it - meant they felt it impossible to vote for the motion.

They aren't the villains here. The Labour Front Bench were a bit too clever by half in the way they handled Opposition Day, and the Government was incredibly heavy-handed and crass in turning what would have been a momentary embarrassment into a memorable crisis. Remember, suspending fracking is a Conservative Party Manifesto commitment - and last night they coerced their people into voting the other way.
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Labour played a blinder. They have brought forward the disintegration of the Government with the chaos we saw and that will do more to end fracking than anything else they could have done
 
basilrobbie3 said:
To be fair to them, both Benton and Menzies spoke strongly AGAINST fracking in the debate. They also said that the fact that they were being whipped in the way they were - and effectively threatened with losing it - meant they felt it impossible to vote for the motion.

They aren't the villains here. The Labour Front Bench were a bit too clever by half in the way they handled Opposition Day, and the Government was incredibly heavy-handed and crass in turning what would have been a momentary embarrassment into a memorable crisis. Remember, suspending fracking is a Conservative Party Manifesto commitment - and last night they coerced their people into voting the other way.
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Of course you are right but the way the Conservative Party is being run atm, and the way their whole Parliamentary Party is behaving, meant that Labour had to do something to give expression to the Tories' chaotic position. Backbench MPs like the three from the Fylde, are shoring up a Government that needs to fall, rather than following their principles. They can criticise in debate as much as they like but whilst they tamely plod through the Government lobby they are fair game for the criticisms levelled against them.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Of course you are right but the way the Conservative Party is being run atm, and the way their whole Parliamentary Party is behaving, meant that Labour had to do something to give expression to the Tories' chaotic position. Backbench MPs like the three from the Fylde, are shoring up a Government that needs to fall, rather than following their principles. They can criticise in debate as much as they like but whilst they tamely plod through the Government lobby they are fair game for the criticisms levelled against them.
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I agree whole-heartedly with your first sentence. On the second - well, up to a point, Lord Copper. You want them to put principles ahead of job security and their career and I think everybody would find that difficult.

On your third -as I say, No.10 and the Whips put them in that position, and there was no need for it. Am I right I saying that the SNP chose not to vote on it as an "England only" issue, and the Government would probably therefore have won anyway? Aren't the Whips paid to know this kind of stuff?

I agree with Foggy that as it turned out Labour will probably be happy with their night's work, but they couldn't possibly have planned for the way it turned out. That's before we get on to the issue of turning a serious environmental and economic issue into a sideshow, which both Parties did.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
I agree whole-heartedly with your first sentence. On the second - well, up to a point, Lord Copper. You want them to put principles ahead of job security and their career and I think everybody would find that difficult.

On your third -as I say, No.10 and the Whips put them in that position, and there was no need for it. Am I right I saying that the SNP chose not to vote on it as an "England only" issue, and the Government would probably therefore have won anyway? Aren't the Whips paid to know this kind of stuff?

I agree with Foggy that as it turned out Labour will probably be happy with their night's work, but they couldn't possibly have planned for the way it turned out. That's before we get on to the issue of turning a serious environmental and economic issue into a sideshow, which both Parties did.
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Lord Copper?...probably more Gordon Comstock.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
I agree whole-heartedly with your first sentence. On the second - well, up to a point, Lord Copper. You want them to put principles ahead of job security and their career and I think everybody would find that difficult.

On your third -as I say, No.10 and the Whips put them in that position, and there was no need for it. Am I right I saying that the SNP chose not to vote on it as an "England only" issue, and the Government would probably therefore have won anyway? Aren't the Whips paid to know this kind of stuff?

I agree with Foggy that as it turned out Labour will probably be happy with their night's work, but they couldn't possibly have planned for the way it turned out. That's before we get on to the issue of turning a serious environmental and economic issue into a sideshow, which both Parties did.
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They couldn't predict this would happen but certainly that it would ramp up the discomfort. We had a quite boring day Tuesday and there were even whispers about Hunt steadying the ship, the markets calming and everyone waiting till his statement on the 31st. That went out of the window a bit anyway with Braverman but Labour did well to make sure any hope of calmer waters was never going be met by making the Tories vote against each other.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
I agree whole-heartedly with your first sentence. On the second - well, up to a point, Lord Copper. You want them to put principles ahead of job security and their career and I think everybody would find that difficult.

On your third -as I say, No.10 and the Whips put them in that position, and there was no need for it. Am I right I saying that the SNP chose not to vote on it as an "England only" issue, and the Government would probably therefore have won anyway? Aren't the Whips paid to know this kind of stuff?

I agree with Foggy that as it turned out Labour will probably be happy with their night's work, but they couldn't possibly have planned for the way it turned out. That's before we get on to the issue of turning a serious environmental and economic issue into a sideshow, which both Parties did.
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Many SNP members voted For the motion. Some didn't vote, but some Labour and Tories didn't vote either, including some high ranking Tories.
Cat Smith was the only local MP to vote for the motion.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
To be fair to them, both Benton and Menzies spoke strongly AGAINST fracking in the debate. They also said that the fact that they were being whipped in the way they were - and effectively threatened with losing it - meant they felt it impossible to vote for the motion.

They aren't the villains here. The Labour Front Bench were a bit too clever by half in the way they handled Opposition Day, and the Government was incredibly heavy-handed and crass in turning what would have been a momentary embarrassment into a memorable crisis. Remember, suspending fracking is a Conservative Party Manifesto commitment - and last night they coerced their people into voting the other way.
Click to expand...

Let's face it, the vote had little to do with fracking but plenty to do with forcing a no confidence vote in the government. Because Parliamentary convention dictates that in the event the Government loses a confidence motion, the Prime Minister would have had to either resign or request a dissolution of Parliament. No criticism should be levelled at the local MPs for not supporting Labour's motion.

It's interesting to contrast the political procedures followed in France, where a general strike is due to commence and the government is struggling to pass the 2023 budget because it does not hold a majority in Parliament. The government can call on special powers to avoid a Parliamentary vote and force the legislation through. Whatever we think about our constitutional processes, a minority government being able to trigger powers to override the majority seems to be a recipe for disaster.
 
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tommytwojags said:
Let's face it, the vote had little to do with fracking but plenty to do with forcing a no confidence vote in the government. Because Parliamentary convention dictates that in the event the Government loses a confidence motion, the Prime Minister would have had to either resign or request a dissolution of Parliament. No criticism should be levelled at the local MPs for not supporting Labour's motion.

It's interesting to contrast the political procedures followed in France, where a general strike is due to commence and the government is struggling to pass the 2023 budget because it does not hold a majority in Parliament. Macron can call on special powers to avoid a Parliamentary vote. Whatever we think about our constitutional processes, a minority government being able to override the majority seems to be a recipe for disaster.
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It was Liz Truss who decided to make it a no confidence vote.
 
foggy said:
But it wasn't. Until Liz Truss made it one.
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basilrobbie3 said:
It was the Tory Whips who put a three line Whip on it and created the issue. They could have just treated the motion on its merits and abstained on it - as they did with the previous one on the economy. A completely self-inflicted problem.
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The opposition's objective was clear. As the Shadow Leader of the Commons, said: "The consequence of this vote is that if the Government loses the motion on fracking, the Prime Minister will resign and the Government will fall."

As it happens, she's gone anyway so directly or indirectly the object was achieved.
 
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tommytwojags said:
As the Shadow Leader of the Commons, said: "The consequence of this vote is that if the Government loses the motion on fracking, the Prime Minister will resign and the Government will fall.
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The key word there is "Shadow".

Opposition front-benchers can make whatever claims they like. The Government doesn't have to play the game though.
 
tommytwojags said:
The opposition's objective was clear. As the Shadow Leader of the Commons, said: "The consequence of this vote is that if the Government loses the motion on fracking, the Prime Minister will resign and the Government will fall.
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You intentionally misquoted the Shadow Leader. Here's the real quote.

"The consequence of making this a confidence vote is that if the government loses the motion on fracking, the Prime Minister will resign and the government will fall. The Tories must urgently confirm this is the case."
 
Davepick said:
A last, an honest politician.
He seems like a really honest man, a pity he's giving up.
I bet he's an excellent MP.
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I know they said he was livid, I thought he was close to tears. His beloved Tory Party come to this shambles of physical bullies.
 
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