Enough is enough - It’s time for a General Election

[ElBurroSinNombre]

I wouldn't be so sure about that: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...cheering-tory-meltdown-end-cheap-money-sinks/

But the end of Trussonomics does not only mark the end of Truss’s time as prime minister. It marks the end of any economic plan that would borrow vast sums of money for day-to-day spending. This is going to create just as big of a headache for the Labour party in the future as it has done for the Conservatives now – and indeed for any Tory who has not yet learned this lesson.


Personally I don't see how Starmer keeps his trade union masters happy without causing exactly the same problems that Truss's plans did.

I am amazed that you can keep quoting the Telegraph on here as if it was a source of any credibility.
A few weeks ago they were lauding Truss and Kwartang's reckless gamble with the UK economy as the best budget for years. Reality has now set in and it seems they are hoping that the shit-sandwich that Truss has made will have to be eaten by a future Labour government.
We don't know what the future holds but I think the vast majority of us would rather have a government that is not in chaos and doesn't crash the economy whilst being cheered on by assorted client journalists. The hard right experiment that the likes of the Telegraph have been calling for for years crashed our economy in a matter of days - it's over. It will never be tried again.

 

[bollieboy]

I wouldn't be so sure about that: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...cheering-tory-meltdown-end-cheap-money-sinks/

But the end of Trussonomics does not only mark the end of Truss’s time as prime minister. It marks the end of any economic plan that would borrow vast sums of money for day-to-day spending. This is going to create just as big of a headache for the Labour party in the future as it has done for the Conservatives now – and indeed for any Tory who has not yet learned this lesson.


Personally I don't see how Starmer keeps his trade union masters happy without causing exactly the same problems that Truss's plans did.

Windfall tax on energy companies ; repeal of non-dom special tax status ; increase CGT and dividend tax to equivalent income tax ; reduce inheritance tax threshold ; postpone introduction of capped care costs and/or increase level of cap ; reduce 45p tax rate threshold ; increase HMRC staff investigating tax evasion through tax havens ; etc.

It ain't difficult if you are looking for a fairer society but obviously the Tories won't do any of the above as they don't want to piss off their donors.

 

[Walthamstow_Seasider]

I am genuinely bemused by the way some people think - or not, as the case may be.

They had some back bench dollop on today saying she favoured Boris and her response to the question about whether he might get kicked out of the House by the Privileges Committee was "well he might not, we should give him a chance". Why would you take a risk that big when you didn't have to?

Elsewhere the ERG are demanding a slate of Ministerial posts in return for their endorsement. The lack of self-awareness is breathtaking, really.

I think there's a element of panic taking over the back benchers especially Red Wallers and those sitting on wafer thin majorities.

They'll see BJ as their best bet on retaining their seats. I imagine that's his route on to the ballot.

 

[Lost Seasider]

Windfall tax on energy companies ; repeal of non-dom special tax status ; increase CGT and dividend tax to equivalent income tax ; reduce inheritance tax threshold ; postpone introduction of capped care costs and/or increase level of cap ; reduce 45p tax rate threshold ; increase HMRC staff investigating tax evasion through tax havens ; etc.

It ain't difficult if you are looking for a fairer society but obviously the Tories won't do any of the above as they don't want to piss off their donors.

The government is already imposing a windfall tax, bigger than Labour are proposing in fact, non-dom will likely generate less than nothing, they'll simply move away, CGT generates next to nothing, likewise IHT, making more people pay 45p rate is marginal at best, the whole thing raises at most £2bn, and HMRC do actually investigate tax evasion.

I'm sorry, but there just isn't the sort of money out there you think there is.

 

[Lost Seasider]

I am amazed that you can keep quoting the Telegraph on here as if it was a source of any credibility.
A few weeks ago they were lauding Truss and Kwartang's reckless gamble with the UK economy as the best budget for years. Reality has now set in and it seems they are hoping that the shit-sandwich that Truss has made will have to be eaten by a future Labour government.
We don't know what the future holds but I think the vast majority of us would rather have a government that is not in chaos and doesn't crash the economy whilst being cheered on by assorted client journalists. The hard right experiment that the likes of the Telegraph have been calling for for years crashed our economy in a matter of days - it's over. It will never be tried again.

The argument is sound though, the financial markets aren't going to let Labour go on a spending spree, Truss has already proved that point, and the claims about how they can find new taxes fall apart the moment you look at them.

 

[Matesrates]

Yeah let’s have a general election taking about 6 weeks, leading to more uncertainty and another prime minister and chancellor.

 

[foggy]

The government is already imposing a windfall tax, bigger than Labour are proposing in fact, non-dom will likely generate less than nothing, they'll simply move away, CGT generates next to nothing, likewise IHT, making more people pay 45p rate is marginal at best, the whole thing raises at most £2bn, and HMRC do actually investigate tax evasion.

I'm sorry, but there just isn't the sort of money out there you think there is.

"Reforms in 2017 which restricted access to the non-dom regime for long-staying non-doms led to just 0.2% of them leaving the UK. Among more recent arrivals, who had been in the UK for less than three years, around 2% left as a result of the reform"

Abolishing the non-dom regime would raise more than £3.2 billion each year, finds new report

Non-domiciled residents in the UK (

www.lse.ac.uk

 

[P t Barnum]

Johnson got kicked out by his own team cos he was utter crap we need a labour government and to get back in single market ASAP

 

[Camberwell1]

I’m a former Labour supporter but switched to voting Conservative when Labour left the infamous note saying something along the lines of ‘good luck there’s no money left’.

My main reason for voting conservative was the belief that they’d look after the public finances better than Labour.

However that’s all gone out of the window with the shambles of the mini-budget and what’s ensued thereafter.

I would never have voted for Labour under Corbyn because he was too far left for my liking.

Whilst I don’t have much time for Starmer, and would much prefer someone like Andy Burnham, I do think it’s time to give Labour a chance to govern.

We’ve had too much of this current lot and their in-fighting. It’s a mess. They’re self serving egotists playing their power games. They’ve forgotten who they’re serving and why they’re there.

So I’d welcome a clear out at a General Election. I feel somewhat for the newer MPs who have had little chance to improve the lives of their constituents. Instead their time in post has been marred by No.10 scandals and the ministerial merry-go-round.

If Starmer becomes PM I hope he strikes the right balance between supporting individuals and supporting business. It can’t be one over the other.

By the way, the reason I’d prefer Andy Burnham is because again he’s straight-talking and he connects with the public. I’m not sure Starmer does. But he’s the Labour leader for now, so it is what it is.

It’s clear Truss has no mandate. It’s clear she can’t control her party. The Tory’s can’t feasibly replace her with another leader. That would be farcical - and in any case there’s no one that could unite their party.

So the only answer for me is to have a General Election. We need a clear out. We need a new Government. Bring it on.

Your first line makes you a Judas
The rest is almost palitable - stop reading Tory press and have your own imagination and gumption

Tories = Scum - get real !

 

[Malced]

Your first line makes you a Judas
The rest is almost palitable - stop reading Tory press and have your own imagination and gumption

Tories = Scum - get real !

That’s a bit harsh. The capability of political parties fluctuates over time. This is largely down to personnel. It’s a bit blinkered to merely vote for the same party, no matter what they’re offering, or who the leader is. Many lifelong labour supporters couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Corbyn for example.
I don’t read any Tory press by the way. But I don’t think any party is permanently entitled to my vote. They have to earn it, rather than expect it, purely based on the name of their party.

 

[Lost Seasider]

"Reforms in 2017 which restricted access to the non-dom regime for long-staying non-doms led to just 0.2% of them leaving the UK. Among more recent arrivals, who had been in the UK for less than three years, around 2% left as a result of the reform"

Abolishing the non-dom regime would raise more than £3.2 billion each year, finds new report

Non-domiciled residents in the UK (

www.lse.ac.uk

You only need to google the names of the authors to know that the conclusion was reached before the report was even started.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_Tax_Commission

 

[1966_and_all_that]

I wouldn't be so sure about that: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...cheering-tory-meltdown-end-cheap-money-sinks/

But the end of Trussonomics does not only mark the end of Truss’s time as prime minister. It marks the end of any economic plan that would borrow vast sums of money for day-to-day spending. This is going to create just as big of a headache for the Labour party in the future as it has done for the Conservatives now – and indeed for any Tory who has not yet learned this lesson.


Personally I don't see how Starmer keeps his trade union masters happy without causing exactly the same problems that Truss's plans did.

No, I can understand that you can't understand the Labour Party without taking instruction from the Torygraph.

 

[foggy]

You only need to google the names of the authors to know that the conclusion was reached before the report was even started.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_Tax_Commission

Do you have an actual dispute of the fact based on HMRC data or are you, the person who always wonders why people attack your sources, only able to counter that the authors also wrote a report discussing the merits of a wealth tax, which has fairly strong support among both Labour and Tory voters.

 

[Lost Seasider]

Do you have an actual dispute of the fact based on HMRC data or are you, the person who always wonders why people attack your sources, only able to counter that the authors also wrote a report discussing the merits of a wealth tax, which has fairly strong support among both Labour and Tory voters.

I don't have the time or energy to go through every link you scrape off the internet, but I know enough about these sorts of studies to say that there's usually enough estimates and assumptions involved in them that the authors can usually come to whatever conclusion they want.

Tell me, do you think there's a reason why Blair and Brown left this area alone, why Ed Balls stated (in 2015) that it would likely cost the country money, why there are plenty of other articles from 2015 saying much the same thing?

 

[foggy]

I don't have the time or energy to go through every link you scrape off the internet, but I know enough about these sorts of studies to say that there's usually enough estimates and assumptions involved in them that the authors can usually come to whatever conclusion they want.

Tell me, do you think there's a reason why Blair and Brown left this area alone, why Ed Balls stated (in 2015) that it would likely cost the country money, why there are plenty of other articles from 2015 saying much the same thing?

So the answer is you don't.

 

[Camberwell1]

That’s a bit harsh. The capability of political parties fluctuates over time. This is largely down to personnel. It’s a bit blinkered to merely vote for the same party, no matter what they’re offering, or who the leader is. Many lifelong labour supporters couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Corbyn for example.
I don’t read any Tory press by the way. But I don’t think any party is permanently entitled to my vote. They have to earn it, rather than expect it, purely based on the name of their party.

R u b b I s h

 

[Malced]

R u b b I s h

A self-descriptive response. Well done!

 

[Camberwell1]

A self-descriptive response. Well done!

And you - Congrats

U know Zero or less about Politics - I worked in it !

It just so happens I wrote a PMs speech - but hey what would I know ?

 

[Camberwell1]

Oh ans if you don’t believe I did - check out Hansard !

 

[Malced]

Good for you. If you had a career in politics you should be very familiar of the concept of floating voters. When you were working for a politician you would know it's incredibly important to be vote winners. If in power you need to hold onto vote share if not increase it. If you're not in power you need to increase vote share. Where do you think these extra votes come from? The clouds? They come from real people who change allegiance because believe it or not, they have their own mind, and their own freedom to vote as they choose at any given time. They don't, and in my opinion shouldn't, have blind faith in one political party.

The Tory's are a good example at present. If there was an election today they'd haemorrhage vote share. But you think anyone switching allegiance is a Judas? It's a bit blinkered to think anyone moving to vote Tory instead of Labour is a Judas, yet at the same time wanting to attract former Tory voters. There's a name for that - it's called double-standards. Or as you say - R u b b I s h.

 

[Malced]

Oh ans if you don’t believe I did - check out Hansard !

by the way, respect to you for writing a PM's speech. I've no reason to doubt that. It's something most cannot claim, and something to be proud of. However, I don't agree that switching voting allegiance makes one a Judas.

 

[rockontommy]

It's a bit blinkered to think anyone moving to vote Tory instead of Labour is a Judas

Robbie has gone the other way bloody Judas

Who gives a fuck? Vote for whoever you want ...

 

[Lala]

Robbie has gone the other way bloody Judas

Who gives a fuck? Vote for whoever you want ...

Floating voters are the voters who bring about the change that people crave/need.

Without us this whole discussion would be moot as the results of any election would be almost identical year on year.

We should be thanked for putting the work in by being open minded and doing our research every four to five years instead of being lazily blinkered.

 

[Trammo]

I am amazed that you can keep quoting the Telegraph on here as if it was a source of any credibility.
A few weeks ago they were lauding Truss and Kwartang's reckless gamble with the UK economy as the best budget for years. Reality has now set in and it seems they are hoping that the shit-sandwich that Truss has made will have to be eaten by a future Labour government.
We don't know what the future holds but I think the vast majority of us would rather have a government that is not in chaos and doesn't crash the economy whilst being cheered on by assorted client journalists. The hard right experiment that the likes of the Telegraph have been calling for for years crashed our economy in a matter of days - it's over. It will never be tried again.

If you are pro Brexit and pro retaining the UK Union then by all means vote Labour because that is what they are in favour of now according to Keir ( the closet Tory). If you are anti Brexit well youv'e got those no hopers Ed Ravey's Lib Demics . Looks like you Remoaners are fecked yet again.

 

[Fargo99]

Floating voters are the voters who bring about the change that people crave/need.

Without us this whole discussion would be moot as the results of any election would be almost identical year on year.

We should be thanked for putting the work in by being open minded and doing our research every four to five years instead of being lazily blinkered.

I'm lazily blinkered, I've never voted Conservative in my life and never will.

 

[Lala]

I'm lazily blinkered, I've never voted Conservative in my life and never will.

I have but only once and no regrets It was the right decision at the time as far as I’m concerned.

Going forward even the left wing media political reporters (credible ones) admit that its going to be a shit storm for us for a good while , even if Labour got in.

We have massive covid debt, a cost of living and energy crisis and no party has the answers without us feeling huge economical pain for a while.

We have to accept that or be very disappointed whoever we vote for.

 

[tommytwojags]

I have but only once and no regrets It was the right decision at the time as far as I’m concerned.

Going forward even the left wing media political reporters (credible ones) admit that its going to be a shit storm for us for a good while , even if Labour got in.

We have massive covid debt, a cost of living and energy crisis and no party has the answers without us feeling huge economical pain for a while.

We have to accept that or be very disappointed whoever we vote for.

I can't disagree Lala. The options are whether it's going to be painful under the Tories or painful under Labour. Most of the pain is predictable except for the extent of UK strikes and the direction of the war in Ukraine.

 

[Lost Seasider]

Interesting article in the FT, if the link is blocked by the paywall just google Labour’s progressive dream has died, and you should get there.

What has died in Britain over recent weeks is the progressive dream, not just the libertarian one. With little money to spend, the point of the next Labour government is — what, exactly? A more equitable kind of fiscal restraint? A bit more stress on tax rises and a tad less on spending cuts? That is something. But it is also much less than the party and its keenest supporters are prone to expect...........Starmer is hemmed in. And if he can’t borrow, nor can he raise taxes, at least not much. He will inherit a corporation tax rate that is already going up. The top rate of income tax will be higher than the last Labour government thought appropriate for 12 of its 13 years in office. And this is before the present government raises other levies (value added tax, I suspect), as it surely must.

 

[Camberwell1]

by the way, respect to you for writing a PM's speech. I've no reason to doubt that. It's something most cannot claim, and something to be proud of. However, I don't agree that switching voting allegiance makes one a Judas.

Many would think it does

 

[Malced]

Many would think it does

I don’t agree.

Thing is, when a political party loses the support of their former voters, it’s wrong to name call those folk.

It’s not that these people have suddenly turned traitorous. They’ve decided to vote for another party for good reason.

So rather than look to name call, which is completely pointless and unproductive, political parties should instead examine themselves as to why they’re no longer attracting those voters.

It’s a bit like a broken relationship when one member of a partnership leaves the other. Often they say ‘it’s not you, it’s me’. But when members of the public choose to vote for someone else, the honest truth is ‘it’s not them, it’s you’.

 

[Camberwell1]

I don’t agree.

Thing is, when a political party loses the support of their former voters, it’s wrong to name call those folk.

It’s not that these people have suddenly turned traitorous. They’ve decided to vote for another party for good reason.

So rather than look to name call, which is completely pointless and unproductive, political parties should instead examine themselves as to why they’re no longer attracting those voters.

It’s a bit like a broken relationship when one member of a partnership leaves the other. Often they say ‘it’s not you, it’s me’. But when members of the public choose to vote for someone else, the honest truth is ‘it’s not them, it’s you’.

Grateful for your list of “good reasons” to vote Tory - you’ll be wanting the reimposition of a lying P M whom faces a lying trial ? Come on - they are a disgrace every single one of them

 

[Malced]

Grateful for your list of “good reasons” to vote Tory - you’ll be wanting the reimposition of a lying P M whom faces a lying trial ? Come on - they are a disgrace every single one of them

I’ve talked generally in the main. I started this thread saying it’s time for an election and a clear out of this current lot.

So I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you refer to a list of good reasons to vote Tory.

Again it’s a bit harsh to say every single one of them are a disgrace. Many MPs in all parties are dedicated to public service and to improving the lives of their constituents.

It’s clear you’re extreme anti-Tory. But as I’ve suggested, it’s not Tory’s or their voters you should be concerned about when it comes to voting behaviour. It’s the Labour Party which lost its so called red wall. You may want to spend some time pondering why that was. It didn’t happen by accident.

 

[Camberwell1]

I’ve talked generally in the main. I started this thread saying it’s time for an election and a clear out of this current lot.

So I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you refer to a list of good reasons to vote Tory.

Again it’s a bit harsh to say every single one of them are a disgrace. Many MPs in all parties are dedicated to public service and to improving the lives of their constituents.

It’s clear you’re extreme anti-Tory. But as I’ve suggested, it’s not Tory’s or their voters you should be concerned about when it comes to voting behaviour. It’s the Labour Party which lost its so called red wall. You may want to spend some time pondering why that was. It didn’t happen by accident.

I think you'll find the red wall paint will bre back out at the drop of a paint brush and you didn't list anything good the Tories have done

Well, I have worked at all levels of the Civil Service and worked directly to all Ministers of all paint colours and this lot were the worst imaginable 10 years ago when along with 100,000 plus colleagues we were all systematically booted out regardless of value or not


I now run a Gardening business and am directly responsible for the livlihoods of 4 others and we are expanding like someone else's waistlines but quicker ! Some of my clients are also prominent politicians (but obviously NOT Tories !)

Compost Corner
Cambers

 

[Malced]

I think you'll find the red wall paint will bre back out at the drop of a paint brush and you didn't list anything good the Tories have done

Well, I have worked at all levels of the Civil Service and worked directly to all Ministers of all paint colours and this lot were the worst imaginable 10 years ago when along with 100,000 plus colleagues we were all systematically booted out regardless of value or not


I now run a Gardening business and am directly responsible for the livlihoods of 4 others and we are expanding like someone else's waistlines but quicker ! Some of my clients are also prominent politicians (but obviously NOT Tories !)

Compost Corner
Cambers

With respect, this thread I started is about calling for a general election. Not sure why I am meant to be listing the merits of the Tory party.

Good luck with your business. I’m glad it’s going well.