Development squad axed

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Briggs5

Well-known member
Just seen insider say in a post in another thread that we are getting rid of the development squad next season. Thoughts on this?

If true, where does this leave Sadler's stated aim that he wants a pathway into the first team for young players? Is it a cost cutting exercise?
 
Briggs5 said:
Just seen insider say in a post in another thread that we are getting rid of the development squad next season. Thoughts on this?

If true, where does this leave Sadler's stated aim that he wants a pathway into the first team for young players? Is it a cost cutting exercise?
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Playing development squad games isn’t providing a pathway to the first team. Only have to look at Apters progress to see how well thought out loan moves are better at developing players. They get exposed to “real” football rather than playing in nothing games. Getting rid of the development squad makes absolute sense.
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
Playing development squad games isn’t providing a pathway to the first team. Only have to look at Apters progress to see how well thought out loan moves are better at developing players. They get exposed to “real” football rather than playing in nothing games. Getting rid of the development squad makes absolute sense.
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I agree with this, but what was the point in the development squad then?
 
Our Development Squad played in the Central League last season in a League with Barrow, Preston, Salford City, Bolton, Wrexham.
None of those teams actually played 10 games and Billy Big Bollux Wrexham only played 3 !!
It really does therefore seem a bit pointless at this point in time. We obviously need the training ground as a venue but will also need to get Cat 2 Academy status so we can play in a proper u23 League. We have always been as good, if not better than The Cods, but they have made the step up without too much difficulty.
 
Briggs5 said:
I agree with this, but what was the point in the development squad then?
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Good question. I mean, with so few actually putting in a 1st team appearance, the whole process basically appears to have been little more than a paper exercise. I suppose some may argue, if we maybe splashed the cash a little on a handful of big 'names' in the twilight of their careers, for any emerging young talent making their way from the development squad, it could perhaps be seen as something of a 'pathway' to the stars ...
 
I am very sceptical of the academy system tbh. I don't think it prepares players for the realities of league football as they're essentially training matches with very little physical contact from what I've seen. The old Central League, with the mix of youngsters and old pros either out of favour or coming back from injury, seemed to be better. I'm not sure why it was changed.

There's definitely value in the loan system for a club like us, but if we could develop our own players under the Oystons, you'd think we'd be able to do it under Sadler in the future.
 
Briggs5 said:
I am very sceptical of the academy system tbh. I don't think it prepares players for the realities of league football as they're essentially training matches with very physical contact from what I've seen. The old Central League, with the mix of youngsters and old pros either out of favour or coming back from injury, seemed to be better. I'm not sure why it was changed.

There's definitely value in the loan system for a club like us, but if we could develop our own players under the Oystons, you'd think we'd be able to do it under Sadler in the future.
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Our Manager certainly favours the Academy system, just not ours. 😉
 
Insider said:
Our Development Squad played in the Central League last season in a League with Barrow, Preston, Salford City, Bolton, Wrexham.
None of those teams actually played 10 games and Billy Big Bollux Wrexham only played 3 !!
It really does therefore seem a bit pointless at this point in time. We obviously need the training ground as a venue but will also need to get Cat 2 Academy status so we can play in a proper u23 League. We have always been as good, if not better than The Cods, but they have made the step up without too much difficulty.
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What does this mean in practice?

Are they going to get rid (or not replace) the likes of Lankshear, Trusty, Emmerson, or are they going to keep the U21s much as they are, and just make more use of the NPL, maybe even the NWCL below that, plus the occasional "bounce game" for those not on loan?

Is this just a decision that the Central League is a waste of everyone's time, and the development squad will continue more or less as is, or is it a more fundamental change?
 
I've always thought that a formal link with 4 or 5 non league clubs at different steps up to the Conference would be a good way to develop players.
 
For a club of our size and financial resources the idea of a Development Squad always seemed like an extravagance. As someone mentioned previously back in the day we had a Reserve team that played in the Central League. Young up and coming players were exposed to competitive games alongside and against seasoned pros' that were coming back from injury or out of favour.

The rise of the Premier League has meant that this has gone by the wayside and the Central League as it is now lacks the structure and number of fixtures of days gone by. Scouting and recruitment appear to be the best way forward with farming players out to National League & National League N & S to continue their development.
 
Lost Seasider said:
What does this mean in practice?

Are they going to get rid (or not replace) the likes of Lankshear, Trusty, Emmerson, or are they going to keep the U21s much as they are, and just make more use of the NPL, maybe even the NWCL below that, plus the occasional "bounce game" for those not on loan?

Is this just a decision that the Central League is a waste of everyone's time, and the development squad will continue more or less as is, or is it a more fundamental change?
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I've heard they are getting rid of the Development Squad. Like you ask it could have a number of interpretations.
I also heard we will use the loan market to give players in that category game time.
We need to wait and see who is left when the retained list is published but again I've heard there won't be many contracts renewed.
None of this is factamundo and some of what I've heard may have been lost in translation but I'm not just mischief making.
 
Briggs5 said:
I've always thought that a formal link with 4 or 5 non league clubs at different steps up to the Conference would be a good way to develop players.
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I think we probably have a few informal links.
The Academy goalkeeper coach, Matt Irwin, is Chorley's keeper.
We have lots of links with Bamber Bridge who have Jamie Milligan as their manager and John Hills on the coaching staff plus lots of former Pool players in the squad.
 
Briggs5 said:
I've always thought that a formal link with 4 or 5 non league clubs at different steps up to the Conference would be a good way to develop players.
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The problem with formal links is we'd need them at 3 or 4 different levels (NL to NWCL), and the players we have available might not always be what those clubs need at the level the player needs, in which case it's not really going to offer much to either party.

Establishing good relations and trust instead of "formal links" with a number of clubs at the different levels seems the way to go for me.
 
I've never really seen the value of it at this level, it just costs money so I don't think it will make much difference to be rid of it. Maybe when we have an up and running training ground we can look again but for me I'd prefer the money was invested in the first team.
 
Sums up a lot of what’s wrong and how disjointed things are.

We signed Dan Sassi in January and whacked him in with the Development Squad, then he went out on loan… Ryan Finnegan got nowhere near the 1st team so far.

Couple of seasons ago we signed Moffat and Emmerson and they’ve not made an 1st team appearance since?

We don’t know what we’re doing with it so hopefully we can sort it but it will also need a manager to not be such a wet wipe that he’s scared of giving young players a chance in League games.

It’s all arse about face.
 
Critchknows said:
I've never really seen the value of it at this level, it just costs money so I don't think it will make much difference to be rid of it. Maybe when we have an up and running training ground we can look again but for me I'd prefer the money was invested in the first team.
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How much do you think Apter would sell for?
 
Lost Seasider said:
How much do you think Apter would sell for?
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He's been loaned out and has mainly developed that way but would he cover the cost of running the development squad... Nah I doubt it. As I remember Brentford sacked theirs off as it was costing them 2mill per year to run it. That was a long time ago and when they were in the championship so I'd imagine ours costs more than that now. If like them we get success then sure bring it back but until then I think the moneys better off elsewhere namely the first team squad
 
I suppose it all depends on what benefits we are getting from having a development squad, exactly the same as in any business, you look at what you are spending on a particular project and what return you're getting from your investment, clearly on reflection we are not benefitting from spending money year after year on a development squad and not having players progressing to the first team, so it ends up being a waste of money.
 
We have a new recruitment and football leadership board this season and they’ve clearly analysed it and decided it’s not likely to yield results.

I also think it potentially waters down the levels. We need a smaller, hungrier youth set up itching to get first team football be it with us or on loan elsewhere.
 
The problem from the off with the young talent we're competing in an area all flooded with teams looking for those up and coming young players and the best normally end up at the bigger clubs and your left with what's left.

We then came up with the idea of taking young players from other clubs Apter(Tranmere)Moffat (Celtic) Holmes(Bolton) etc and putting them into a development squad when they'd been developed elsewhere and needed regular game time.

Nowt wrong with picking up the odd young player and sending them straight out on loan like a Casey but having a full squad will have proven to be costly and the money better invested on scouting your next Grimshaw and Lyons for example.
 
Critchknows said:
He's been loaned out and has mainly developed that way but would he cover the cost of running the development squad... Nah I doubt it. As I remember Brentford sacked theirs off as it was costing them 2mill per year to run it. That was a long time ago and when they were in the championship so I'd imagine ours costs more than that now. If like them we get success then sure bring it back but until then I think the moneys better off elsewhere namely the first team squad
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There's not the slightest chance that we're spending £2m+ on the academy, more like the cost of Hamilton's wages, or perhaps Norburn's, a few hundred thousand a year.

Yes, Apter has been loaned out as part of his development, but he wouldn't have got those loans without his time in the development squad, so the fact he was loaned out is irrelevant.

With Apter now first team ready, he's probably justified at least a year of the development squad's budget, possibly more, with Moore looking promising, that's possibly another year justified, and if @Insider is to be believed, there's a good crop of U18's coming up as well.

Norburn or Apter, you decide?
 
Lost Seasider said:
There's not the slightest chance that we're spending £2m+ on the academy, more like the cost of Hamilton's wages, or perhaps Norburn's, a few hundred thousand a year.

Yes, Apter has been loaned out as part of his development, but he wouldn't have got those loans without his time in the development squad, so the fact he was loaned out is irrelevant.

With Apter now first team ready, he's probably justified at least a year of the development squad's budget, possibly more, with Moore looking promising, that's possibly another year justified, and if @Insider is to be believed, there's a good crop of U18's coming up as well.

Norburn or Apter, you decide?
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I'm looking forward to the next 2 seasons of U18s football. We need to find a home though
 
Lost Seasider said:
There's not the slightest chance that we're spending £2m+ on the academy, more like the cost of Hamilton's wages, or perhaps Norburn's, a few hundred thousand a year.

Yes, Apter has been loaned out as part of his development, but he wouldn't have got those loans without his time in the development squad, so the fact he was loaned out is irrelevant.

With Apter now first team ready, he's probably justified at least a year of the development squad's budget, possibly more, with Moore looking promising, that's possibly another year justified, and if @Insider is to be believed, there's a good crop of U18's coming up as well.

Norburn or Apter, you decide?
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I disagree. As for Norburn or Apter, total false equivalence.
 
Critchknows said:
I disagree.
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How many players have pro contracts? How much do you think they are on?

How many coaches does the club have? How much do you think they're on?

Add it all up, and I can't see anything above £500,000, probably less.


Critchknows said:
As for Norburn or Apter, total false equivalence.
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Why?

They're both football players, different position albeit, but there are plenty on here who'd rather see Apter in the team than Norburn.

One cost £300,000 plus likely £200,000 p/a wages, the other came for free and is having his wages paid by another club anyway.
 
Tbh none of the development players were close to breaking into the first 11. I think scrapping it and utilizing the money to invest into the first team would be more beneficial.
 
It isn't surprising given how few games the development squad played. When it did play, Dobbie seemed to have to make up the numbers with plenty of youth players, as half the squad were on loan at disappointing levels of senior football. More worryingly, when some of these players were given a chance at a higher level, they failed to take it. Overall, the momentum around the development squad this last season has been sadly lacking.
 
Not the end of the world. As others have said loans are the way forward. Probably burning a massive hole in our wallet and not much reward?
 
Might as well leave Development Squads to the big boys and then we'll inevitably end up with the ones that don't make it!
 
Insider said:
I'm looking forward to the next 2 seasons of U18s football. We need to find a home though
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What's your take on the release of Trusty, Squires, Francis, Mariette, Lescott?

I've liked the look of some of those in the Bristol Street Pizza cup.
 
voyeur said:
What's your take on the release of Trusty, Squires, Francis, Mariette, Lescott?

I've liked the look of some of those in the Bristol Street Pizza cup.
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Add Brad Holmes to that list as well.
Of those mentioned I probably would say Luke Mariette has the most potential.
It's the age old problem at BFC though in that we can't currently develop them any further. If I'd been their agent I'd have been advising them to look elsewhere.
If they can get a move to a cash strapped club like Morecambe, say, who have no alternative to playing young pro's I'd say "fill your boots".
Good luck to all of them. They've all been good players in our Academy team like but like I"m constantly reminded we are only Category 3. There are lots of players who probably won't get a chance of a career from Cat1 & 2 Academies.
 
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Insider said:
Add Brad Holmes to that list as well.
Of those mentioned I probably would say Luke Mariette has the most potential.
It's the age old problem at BFC though in that we can't currently develop them any further. If I'd been their agent I'd have been advising them to look elsewhere.
If they can get a move to a cash strapped club like Morecambe, say, who have no alternative to playing young pro's I'd say "fill your boots".
Good luck to all of them. They've all been good players in our Academy team like I'm constantly reminded we are only Category 3. There are lots of players who probably won't get a chance of a career from Cat1 & 2 Academies.
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Cheers. Trusty didn't look out of place amongst the senior players, I thought. We let Dion Charles and George Thomason go in the past, so it's not always the right decision.

I left Holmes out cos I think we could see he wasn't quite getting there. I'm not sure about the others, not seen enough. Giving Apter a go last season would have been such a positive message. I resent that about Critch. Too safe as houses to see the bigger picture. Too insecure. Too concerned with his own career. Too damaged by his mate Gerrard. Using us to try to repair the damage.
 
Is there any chance that Dobbie will get utilised in the first team set up? We really could do with an attacking coach, and with a coach who has a wealth of playing experience.

I know he turned down the opportunity last summer to work with Critch, but might he step up now that the dev squad has been dissolved?
 
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