Daniels and Mariette

Insider said:
How disappointing to make your debuts in a 5-0 defeat.
I know there's a huge gulf between Academy Cat 3 football and he Championship because @Philbfctrois (who's never seen them play) has told me but I do think both Jake and Luke have enough about them to make the grade.
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Do you think any others have a chance?
 
Some great youth lads who could easily step up 2 the ist team.. Maybe cat 3 but that is the facilities not the players!. Roll on next season.
 
Daniels hardly received the ball so difficult to tell (but he definitely did no worse than Beesley/Yates). Mariette I thought showed some promise in the limited time we saw him. He seems like a player who has the vision to pick a pass.
It's difficult to tell with so few minutes and in a difficult situation where the team in general just isn't functioning. Hope they get another chance under better circumstances where they can show what they can do.
 
seasideone said:
Do you think any others have a chance?
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I categorically state I'm biased.
I would have said Rob Apter but @KingZobo cast doubts on his attitude this week however Chester tweeted very positively about his contribution to their season and the good luck messages from their fans equally so.
eg "I came to a Chester game last week, Bolton fan but was bored and this guys class stood out a mile."
I know RB Jack Moore is highly rated by the Club
There's been some great performance by the u/18s but, FA Youth Cup aside, I do only generally see them at Category 3 level.
 
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Good to see 2 for the future given an introduction to first team football..
The right way to bring players in for the last 10 - 15 minutes
Should have done this with Casey from the start
We're going to need another R B , do we already have one?
 
Poolview said:
Good to see 2 for the future given an introduction to first team football..
The right way to bring players in for the last 10 - 15 minutes
Should have done this with Casey from the start
We're going to need another R B , do we already have one?
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Only 3 subs allowed in a league game, you can't often use them to give players experience.
 
I would guess it was in Critchs plans to give Apter a run as well? But the early withdrawal of RK killed that
 
Insider said:
How disappointing to make your debuts in a 5-0 defeat.
I know there's a huge gulf between Academy Cat 3 football and the Championship because @Philbfctrois (who's never seen them play) has told me but I do think both Jake and Luke have enough about them to make the grade.
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Stop making things up i have seen them play

Anyway what I've been saying is there is a massive difference between Cat 3 Academy and Championship football

Whilst our Academy does well regionally against the Rochdales and Accringtons of the world they are miles away from the elite

For example Blackburn have a young lad Ash Phillips who's valued at 5 million quid, we have nothing anywhere near that and our brightest prospects go on loan to non league teams
 
Our two young players must remember yesterday for the adulation of our supporters at the end, and not the pathetic capitulation of their seniors.
If they want to be respected, successful pros, they must fight in every game, right until the last minute of the final game of the season.
 
Poor choice of subs from Critch yesterday. Was there anyone there who Critch knew could come on and change the game? No. It's alright to bring on some youth players if we are comfortable and winning the game but we weren't. We needed changes by bringing on expereience who could have some influence. And although Daniels and Marette might have "enjoyed" the experience of making their debuts, the rest of the team did nothing to help them to make it as such a positive experience.
 
20togo said:
Poor choice of subs from Critch yesterday. Was there anyone there who Critch knew could come on and change the game? No. It's alright to bring on some youth players if we are comfortable and winning the game but we weren't. We needed changes by bringing on expereience who could have some influence. And although Daniels and Marette might have "enjoyed" the experience of making their debuts, the rest of the team did nothing to help them to make it as such a positive experience.
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The only senior players on the bench yesterday were Eky, who came on, and Grimmy.
Philbfctrois said:
Stop making things up i have seen them play

Anyway what I've been saying is there is a massive difference between Cat 3 Academy and Championship football

Whilst our Academy does well regionally against the Rochdales and Accringtons of the world they are miles away from the elite

For example Blackburn have a young lad Ash Phillips who's valued at 5 million quid, we have nothing anywhere near that and our brightest prospects go on loan to non league teams
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James Hill left Fleetwood's Cat 3 Academy for £1m. (We've got his brother) A 15yr old from our Academy left at the beginning of the season for £300k. Blackburn have an excellent Academy which, because of the excellent facilities is a Cat 1, not because of the excellent scholars. We were lucky to maintain Cat 3 status whilst the Oystons were in charge although we did produce a few players who still have a career in the EFL and overseas.
I do of course know there's a big difference between Cat 3 Academy football and Championship football and obviously so do the Academy coaching staff and Critch, which is why none of them have broken through into the 1st team squad, yet.
The reason why we are letting our young pro's out on loan is probably more to do with the lack of facilities (we've nowhere for a reserve or u/23 team to play) though than anything else.
Letting the u/18s out on loan is a first this season. They are watched carefully and exposing them to "mens" football is the football equivalent of work experience. I personally see that as a positive in their development.
But bring on the new training ASAP because we need that to progress and to fulfill the clubs ambition of 5for25.
 
Insider said:
The only senior players on the bench yesterday were Eky, who came on, and Grimmy.

James Hill left Fleetwood's Cat 3 Academy for £1m. (We've got his brother) A 15yr old from our Academy left at the beginning of the season for £300k. Blackburn have an excellent Academy which, because of the excellent facilities is a Cat 1, not because of the excellent scholars. We were lucky to maintain Cat 3 status whilst the Oystons were in charge although we did produce a few players who still have a career in the EFL and overseas.
I do of course know there's a big difference between Cat 3 Academy football and Championship football and obviously so do the Academy coaching staff and Critch, which is why none of them have broken through into the 1st team squad, yet.
The reason why we are letting our young pro's out on loan is probably more to do with the lack of facilities (we've nowhere for a reserve or u/23 team to play) though than anything else.
Letting the u/18s out on loan is a first this season. They are watched carefully and exposing them to "mens" football is the football equivalent of work experience. I personally see that as a positive in their development.
But bring on the new training ASAP because we need that to progress and to fulfill the clubs ambition of 5for25.
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I think most of that is fair comment but it has been a long time since we had one of our youth players graduated to our first 11 and it does make you wonder if it is viable to keep following this path and maybe we should look at being the team that hoovers up some of the stand out youth from other teams..we have had Everton as a happy hunting ground recently and maybe there are other clubs we can raid. Sonny and Grimshaw are a decent example of this. I hope some of the youth can make the step up BUT the evidence over the last twenty years shows that it is doubtful.
 
Insider said:
The only senior players on the bench yesterday were Eky, who came on, and Grimmy.

James Hill left Fleetwood's Cat 3 Academy for £1m. (We've got his brother) A 15yr old from our Academy left at the beginning of the season for £300k. Blackburn have an excellent Academy which, because of the excellent facilities is a Cat 1, not because of the excellent scholars. We were lucky to maintain Cat 3 status whilst the Oystons were in charge although we did produce a few players who still have a career in the EFL and overseas.
I do of course know there's a big difference between Cat 3 Academy football and Championship football and obviously so do the Academy coaching staff and Critch, which is why none of them have broken through into the 1st team squad, yet.
The reason why we are letting our young pro's out on loan is probably more to do with the lack of facilities (we've nowhere for a reserve or u/23 team to play) though than anything else.
Letting the u/18s out on loan is a first this season. They are watched carefully and exposing them to "mens" football is the football equivalent of work experience. I personally see that as a positive in their development.
But bring on the new training ASAP because we need that to progress and to fulfill the clubs ambition of 5for25.
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yes I know,I was there. That's why I said it was a poor choice of subs by Critch. Not by putting them on but by picking five of them in the first place.
 
Just to add I think it is a massive oversight to not have a reserve/central league team to blood some players and look at others including the ones coming back from injury. I would prioritize this over some of the other initiatives. I would even take in a few games at that level.
 
20togo said:
yes I know,I was there. That's why I said it was a poor choice of subs by Critch. Not by putting them on but by picking five of them in the first place.
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I don't think anyone else was available. We are still short of several players through injury. James was on paternity leave. Lavery and Dougall were released for International duty. Only Gary & Josh possibly could have played but Critch thought they had enough football. I can't think of a better time to give the Youth players experience of travelling with the 1st team and giving them their debuts. It was just reward for an excellent season by Luke and Jake.
 
Insider said:
I don't think anyone else was available. We are still short of several players through injury. James was on paternity leave. Lavery and Dougall were released for International duty. Only Gary & Josh possibly could have played but Critch thought they had enough football. I can't think of a better time to give the Youth players experience of travelling with the 1st team and giving them their debuts. It was just reward for an excellent season by Luke and Jake.
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sorry but I don't buy into Critchs statement. Josh hasn't played for a number of games now and this was the last game. So had enough football? Absolute bullshit. I refer you to my post #15. Critch clearly couldn't have given two hoots about the result.
 
TANGERINETOWERPOWER said:
I think most of that is fair comment but it has been a long time since we had one of our youth players graduated to our first 11 and it does make you wonder if it is viable to keep following this path and maybe we should look at being the team that hoovers up some of the stand out youth from other teams..we have had Everton as a happy hunting ground recently and maybe there are other clubs we can raid. Sonny and Grimshaw are a decent example of this. I hope some of the youth can make the step up BUT the evidence over the last twenty years shows that it is doubtful.
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There's a lot to be said for that and I think at one stage Huddersfield publicy declared that was what they were doing but I do notice they have a development squad so not sure if it ever happened.
Clubs do of course get financial support for their Academies which increases as they move up the Academy status. And then you only need to find a couple of gems to sell on to pay for the Academy for a few years.
Whatever you or I think though it appeared to be Simon Sadlers ambition to produce homegrown talent and he's the man with the money.
#5for25
 
Insider said:
There's a lot to be said for that and I think at one stage Huddersfield publicy declared that was what they were doing but I do notice they have a development squad so not sure if it ever happened.
Clubs do of course get financial support for their Academies which increases as they move up the Academy status. And then you only need to find a couple of gems to sell on to pay for the Academy for a few years.
Whatever you or I think though it appeared to be Simon Sadlers ambition to produce homegrown talent and he's the man with the money.
#5for25
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I have no problem with that but in truth the phrase res ipsa loquitur (the facts speak for themselves) has to apply and we really need the youth system to bear fruit sooner rather than later. As I said a competitive reserve team would seem to be far more important to me.
 
20togo said:
sorry but I don't buy into Critchs statement. Josh hasn't played for a number of games now and this was the last game. So had enough football? Absolute bullshit. I refer you to my post #15.
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I'm not arguing with you about that. I actually spoke to Josh on Thursday night and he led me to believe he was playing on Saturday. Personally IF there's a deal already done I wouldn't have even considered playing him once we were safe but that's just my view which is no more right or wrong than yours.
The reality of Saturday was there wasn't much choice even if there a couple of possibles with nothing to prove. IMO Critch made the right choices for the squad but they let him down spectacularly.
 
20togo said:
sorry but I don't buy into Critchs statement. Josh hasn't played for a number of games now and this was the last game. So had enough football? Absolute bullshit. I refer you to my post #15. Critch clearly couldn't have given two hoots about the result.
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I was thinking the same. Josh has missed three games, and the reason being sited is 'fatigue'!
He's a professional athlete for heaven's sake and he's now on holiday for several weeks, as are the other first teamers who were rested yesterday.
If anyone deserved a rest yesterday, it was Uncle Richard, the oldest player in the squad, whose future may be elsewhere. He was played and now he's injured.
It appears that Critch didn't care about the result of the game, more a case of 'let's get this done and prepare for next season'.
The records will show that we had a very poor end to the season (PNE, Forrest, Derby, Posh etc) and that will make us relegation favorites again next season.
A rebuild is needed, so we'll be at it from game one.
 
Insider said:
I'm not arguing with you about that. I actually spoke to Josh on Thursday night and he led me to believe he was playing on Saturday. Personally IF there's a deal already done I wouldn't have even considered playing him once we were safe but that's just my view which is no more right or wrong than yours.
The reality of Saturday was there wasn't much choice even if there a couple of possibles with nothing to prove. IMO Critch made the right choices for the squad but they let him down spectacularly.
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Fact is Critch sent out an unmotivated team and his choice of who he put on the bench meant he could do little about it. He as much as those who played let the kids down. Like I said the two youth players might have "enjoyed" making their debuts but it's hardly motivational for them to come on when the team is simply going through the motions. Fact is Critch's team/squad selection left him nowhere to go so basically he couldn't have give a damn about the result. His apology was simply empty words.
 
20togo said:
Fact is Critch sent out an unmotivated team
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That's a key point for me. NC is obviously a good coach but is he a good motivator? Going by results from nobbers onwards, it seems questionable. It's where he maybe needs a different type of personality alongside him, to help with this aspect.
 
20togo said:
Poor choice of subs from Critch yesterday. Was there anyone there who Critch knew could come on and change the game? No. It's alright to bring on some youth players if we are comfortable and winning the game but we weren't. We needed changes by bringing on expereience who could have some influence. And although Daniels and Marette might have "enjoyed" the experience of making their debuts, the rest of the team did nothing to help them to make it as such a positive experience.
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In all seriousness who do you think should have been on the bench?

The alternatives were either injured, ill or on an early release prior to upcoming internationals.

I don't think he had much option.
 
Philbfctrois said:
Stop making things up i have seen them play

Anyway what I've been saying is there is a massive difference between Cat 3 Academy and Championship football

Whilst our Academy does well regionally against the Rochdales and Accringtons of the world they are miles away from the elite

For example Blackburn have a young lad Ash Phillips who's valued at 5 million quid, we have nothing anywhere near that and our brightest prospects go on loan to non league teams
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Yeah we signed a highly rated young player from Blackburn for a significant fee..... Joe Nuttall so maybe we shouldn't believe the hype.
 
Seainsea said:
Yeah we signed a highly rated young player from Blackburn for a significant fee..... Joe Nuttall so maybe we shouldn't believe the hype.
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If Blackburn sell anyone for £5 million I'd be astounded, and that includes Brereton Diaz
 
Wizaard said:
In all seriousness who do you think should have been on the bench?

The alternatives were either injured, ill or on an early release prior to upcoming internationals.

I don't think he had much option.
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Bowler, Anderson and Madine. One game to go and they are "fatigued"? They can have nearly two months rest now! Critch didn't give a monkeys about the game or result. When are the internationals by the way? I assume in the next week. Did all the other clubs release their players?.You're buying into his bullshit.
 
20togo said:
Bowler, Anderson and Madine. One game to go and they are "fatigued"? They can have nearly two months rest now! Critch didn't give a monkeys about the game or result. When are the internationals by the way? I assume in the next week. Did all the other clubs release their players?.You're buying into his bullshit.
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We don't see them as much as Critch and Madine had an injured knee on Thursday that he was icing. Anderson has literally finished a month of fasting for Ramadan which might well have had an effect.

Bowler, who knows, but he hasn't been as effective recently and maybe is fatigued.

As for the internationals, the team is back in training on 20th June. If they dont have a break now, they'll be playing two seasons without a break. Short term loss for long term gain, imo.
 
Wizaard said:
We don't see them as much as Critch and Madine had an injured knee on Thursday that he was icing. Anderson has literally finished a month of fasting for Ramadan which might well have had an effect.

Bowler, who knows, but he hasn't been as effective recently and maybe is fatigued.

As for the internationals, the team is back in training on 20th June. If they dont have a break now, they'll be playing two seasons without a break. Short term loss for long term gain, imo.
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so you can confirm none of those three had to report for training. They were all told, well done, you can have a week off befire the end of the season! It's bull hit and you know it. Anything at stake for the game and they'd have all been available including those released for int duty. Like I said for a ten days now, for the fans it was important to try and come above the nobbers. Did you not even think that because you're always putting them down when their fans post on here! Critchley clearly didn't think so.
 
20togo said:
Fact is Critch sent out an unmotivated team and his choice of who he put on the bench meant he could do little about it. He as much as those who played let the kids down. Like I said the two youth players might have "enjoyed" making their debuts but it's hardly motivational for them to come on when the team is simply going through the motions. Fact is Critch's team/squad selection left him nowhere to go so basically he couldn't have give a damn about the result. His apology was simply empty words.
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FFS 20s I give up. You're the master of hindsight. Critch didn't pick a team with the expectation that they were unmotivated but yes I certainly agree at 5pm that was the impression they gave me and you. What did you think of his team choice at 3pm? (Pre- match there was a clamour.on here to play Beesley and Yates). You have your opinion, which is always right, and God forbid anyone that dares disagree with you.
It was the last game of the season FFS. Gary didn't play because he was emotionally distraught that Hubby can't go Marbella with him, Bowler walks around like a player with a slapped arse.
The young players were minted that they travelled with the squad, Luke and Jake were doubly minted that they got their debuts.
BUT what did you do for me Neil?
 
20togo said:
so you can confirm none of those three had to report for training. They were all told, well done, you can have a week off befire the end of the season! It's bull hit and you know it. Anything at stake for the game and they'd have all been available including those released for int duty. Like I said for a ten days now, for the fans it was important to try and come above the nobbers. Did you not even think that because you're always putting them down when their fans post on here! Critchley clearly didn't think so.
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Madine was injured in training on Thursday, the last training session, Bowler and Anderson didn't train and Connolly and Virtue left early with illness.

Fact.
 
20togo said:
so you can confirm none of those three had to report for training. They were all told, well done, you can have a week off befire the end of the season! It's bull hit and you know it. Anything at stake for the game and they'd have all been available including those released for int duty. Like I said for a ten days now, for the fans it was important to try and come above the nobbers. Did you not even think that because you're always putting them down when their fans post on here! Critchley clearly didn't think so.
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Critch is thinking about the longer term. Even if we'd won Nobbers finished above us, so stop crying about it.
 
Insider said:
FFS 20s I give up. You're the master of hindsight. Critch didn't pick a team with the expectation that they were unmotivated but yes I certainly agree at 5pm that was the impression they gave me and you. What did you think of his team choice at 3pm? (Pre- match there was a clamour.on here to play Beesley and Yates). You have your opinion, which is always right, and God forbid anyone that dares disagree with you.
It was the last game of the season FFS. Gary didn't play because he was emotionally distraught that Hubby can't go Marbella with him, Bowler walks around like a player with a slapped arse.
The young players were minted that they travelled with the squad, Luke and Jake were doubly minted that they got their debuts.
BUT what did you do for me Neil?
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I've offered to go in place of Hubby 👍
 
Insider said:
FFS 20s I give up. You're the master of hindsight. Critch didn't pick a team with the expectation that they were unmotivated but yes I certainly agree at 5pm that was the impression they gave me and you. What did you think of his team choice at 3pm? (Pre- match there was a clamour.on here to play Beesley and Yates). You have your opinion, which is always right, and God forbid anyone that dares disagree with you.
It was the last game of the season FFS. Gary didn't play because he was emotionally distraught that Hubby can't go Marbella with him, Bowler walks around like a player with a slapped arse.
The young players were minted that they travelled with the squad, Luke and Jake were doubly minted that they got their debuts.
BUT what did you do for me Neil?
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No hindsight at all. so fuck you. I've been saying the same thing for a while now and that was it was important to come above Preston and that wasn't by playing the kids. As I was away from Thursday til yesterday evening you won't find a single post from me so just because others gave their opinion on the team selected I did not. So no clamouring from me! And as I've said more than once now ,I'm sure the two kids were "minted" to make their debuts. However, as a pro footballer it's not much fun coming on when the game is already lost and the team have given up.
 
Wizaard said:
Critch is thinking about the longer term. Even if we'd won Nobbers finished above us, so stop crying about it.
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Right, I acknowledge that you or Critch admit you couldn't give a fuck about coming above the nobbers.
 
20togo said:
Right, I acknowledge that you or Critch admit you couldn't give a fuck about coming above the nobbers.
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We could have won 15 nil and we would still have been a point behind them. Look at the table. This season was about staying up. Job done. Next season finish well clear of them. Progression. Want it all now Premier League armchair fan.
 
I know you went yesterday because you've told the world several times. Well done to you, genuinely.
Have you listened to what the pros say about end of season games. Brett mentioned it on the Preview Show this week and the guy on Quest (name escapes me) a couple of weeks back. They find it hard to be motivated in end of season games with nothing to be play for. Factamundo.
What did you want for this season following promotion last year? Whilst I'd have loved back to back promotions 60 points would have realistically suited me fine. Yesterday was a shit performance the season was a success.
Thanks for swearing at me, that brackets you with Phil3.
 
Wizaard said:
We could have won 15 nil and we would still have been a point behind them. Look at the table. This season was about staying up. Job done. Next season finish well clear of them. Progression. Want it all now Premier League armchair fan.
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Don't be a nob. Before the game started we still could have finished above them and that's the key point.
 
20togo said:
So you believe everything Critchley tells you as fact then. Naive. Fact.
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What proof do you have to say otherwise other than confirming your own prejudices?

As I said, I know for a fact why four of the players were unavailable. You can't say the same.
 
Insider said:
I know you went yesterday because you've told the world several times. Well done to you, genuinely.
Have you listened to what the pros say about end of season games. Brett mentioned it on the Preview Show this week and the guy on Quest (name escapes me) a couple of weeks back. They find it hard to be motivated in end of season games with nothing to be play for. Factamundo.
What did you want for this season following promotion last year? Whilst I'd have loved back to back promotions 60 points would have realistically suited me fine. Yesterday was a shit performance the season was a success.
Thanks for swearing at me, that brackets you with Phil3.
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Tell me if P'boro found it hard to be motivated? And again you deflect. My point has nothing to do whatsoever with how we've done this season. And you know that. You put a swear word into your reply to me, I simply did likewise. As for me telling the world, I've simply responded on here to posts asking who was going and their plans etc. That's not the world, just AVFTT. Do I say you tell the world every time you turn up for a youth match? No I don't so quit the crap.
 
Wizaard said:
What proof do you have to say otherwise other than confirming your own prejudices?

As I said, I know for a fact why four of the players were unavailable. You can't say the same.
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What proof do you have of these facts? Naive.
 
20togo said:
What proof do you have of these facts? Naive.
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One of the players told me and a few others on Thursday night, one of those players who didn't play on Saturday. Unfortunately I didn't tape it.

As I said, if it doesn't fit with your perception then it must be wrong.

Give it up.
 
Wizaard said:
One of the players told me and a few others on Thursday night, one of those players who didn't play on Saturday. Unfortunately I didn't tape it.

As I said, if it doesn't fit with your perception then it must be wrong.

Give it up.
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Ah right, my perception is that the result meant nothing and the manager and players couldn't give couldn't give a monkeys about the result. I suggest you re-read some of the fans opinions about the game but hey their views don't matter.
 
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