I See the French.........

For whatever his reasons are,maybe deep resentment over our Brexit decision or perhaps a more deeply long held antipathy to this country in general following the past prime example of De Gaulle and a few other French leaders too , Macron has done no favours to the UK in recent times,quite the reverse in fact.He was regularly identified as the European leader who was the most obdurate in attempting to minimize any concessions offered to the UK in the Brexit negotiations.

Then he describes the vaccine developed in this country as" quasi-ineffective on those over 65 and maybe over 60 too," which terminology now seems not only disrespectful but also ill founded and offensive to what we in this country have achieved. This after a complete balls up in the EU vaccine procurement strategy of which of course France along with Germany are major players thus inevitably shouldering a major part of the responsibility. When you add to that the fact that their own attempts to develop a vaccine at the Pasteur Institute have been abandoned in humiliating failure the picture starts to become both darker yet clearer.

None of the above can remotely be described by any balanced observer as "xenophobic bullshit,"on the contrary it`s simply drawing the obvious conclusions from the well publicized and undisputed facts relating to our sourest of neighbours.
 
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Germany following France decision now now in supporting the use of AZ vaccine which it previously said more testing was required.
You couldn’t make it up. 😮
 
Scaramanga said:
How many died while they fucked about ? If Boris had done the same the faux outrage on here would be off the scale. Just admit they fucked up and move on.
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No one is saying they've not been stupid, but it's nothing to do with Brexit.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
I think it is mildly amusing that all those who think the Government should not supply to any old Tom Dick or Pierre are from the party of Capitalism and Private Enterprise. Newsflash, it is absolutely nothing to do with the Government, Astra Zeneca is a PLC which will make its own decisions. Maybe they'd like to nationalise it, and the WE can decide who gets OUR vaccine?
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I see AZ is headed by a Frenchman!
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Germany following France decision now now in supporting the use of AZ vaccine which it previously said more testing was required.
You couldn’t make it up. 😮
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Talk about making a cock-up. Everything the EU does digs it deeper into the hole and makes it look a right tinpot organisation. Now six member states have opted for deals on vaccines outside the EU's official procurement. Austria, Denmark, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and Poland have given up on the EU programme and announced plans to go it alone on vaccine deals with Russia, China and Israel. How dare they disobey France and Germany? Everyone knows the EU belongs to them. Macron must be steaming.
 
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Brilliant summing up 1950s. This has nothing to do with "xenophobic bullshit". This is about laying the blame where it belongs. It is the likes of Macron, Merkel and VDL who are being made accountable for their poor judgement , poor decision making and vindictive behaviour. It has nothing to do with making a judgement on anybody else.
 
Ruperthoop said:
Brilliant summing up 1950s. This has nothing to do with "xenophobic bullshit". This is about laying the blame where it belongs. It is the likes of Macron, Merkel and VDL who are being made accountable for their poor judgement , poor decision making and vindictive behaviour. It has nothing to do with making a judgement on anybody else.
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Hopefully everyone will follow the example of laying the blame where it belongs with regards our government in future.
 
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I think everyone knows that our Gov has made serious mistakes.
That is not what this thread is about - to many deflective posts.
Macron is a narcissist. You really don't want people like him in power. Much rather have a bumbling buffoon like Boris.
Emmanuel is a hell of a customer for the couch and many psychiatrists would love him on theirs.
He thought he had only farted but shit himself as my grandpapa used to say.
 
Tangojoe said:
You can say it as many times as you want, but that doesn't make it true. Everyone knows the UK would have been bound by the EU procurement programme had it remained in the EU.
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There are too many unknowns to say that for certain but the likely situation in parliament makes it probable that we'd be stuck in that the EU procurement scheme.

The fag end of Cameron's government, an election due in 2020 but pushed back into 2021, a tiny majority in parliament at best, I doubt that they would've had the political capital to make such a bold decision and would've opted for the political safety of the EU scheme.

Had we done such a thing the EU would likely be trumpeting the scheme as a great success, it is the fact that we didn't that exposes the catastrophic failure that it is.
 
Tangojoe said:
You can say it as many times as you want, but that doesn't make it true. Everyone knows the UK would have been bound by the EU procurement programme had it remained in the EU.
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'Everyone knows' is wrong. We could have made our own arrangements as the likes of Hungary and others have done, buying in from Russia.
 
Tangojoe said:
You can say it as many times as you want, but that doesn't make it true. Everyone knows the UK would have been bound by the EU procurement programme had it remained in the EU.
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That's also not true as there is a clause that would have allowed the UK to both procure and approve in the same timeframe as they have actually done. Brexit was ultimately nothing to do with it. Carry on though.
 
Wizaard said:
'Everyone knows' is wrong. We could have made our own arrangements as the likes of Hungary and others have done, buying in from Russia.
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southshorepool said:
That's also not true as there is a clause that would have allowed the UK to both procure and approve in the same timeframe as they have actually done. Brexit was ultimately nothing to do with it. Carry on though.
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Stop making up stories. Hungary and others were bullied by UVDL to let the EC run the show. They had to follow the rules, as did Germany, as did France, as did Ireland and as would the UK had it been in the EU. The EC supported by France and Germany preached about unity and a united front. That's how things work in the EU. You step out of line at your peril. Austria, Denmark, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and Poland have had enough of it now and threatened to procure their own vaccines. We would have done the same.
 
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Tangojoe said:
Stop making up stories. Hungary and others were bullied by UVDL to let the EC run the show. They had to follow the rules, as did Germany, as did France, as did Ireland and as would the UK had it been in the EU. The EC supported by France and Germany preached about unity and a united front. That's how things work in the EU. You step out of line at your peril. Austria, Denmark, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and Poland have had enough of it now and threatened to procure their own vaccines. We would have done the same.
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Not made up stories. Hungary have bought in the Russian vaccine. You're letting the hatred get to you.
 
Tangojoe said:
Stop making up stories. Hungary and others were bullied by UVDL to let the EC run the show. They had to follow the rules, as did Germany, as did France, as did Ireland and as would the UK had it been in the EU. The EC supported by France and Germany preached about unity and a united front. That's how things work in the EU. You step out of line at your peril. Austria, Denmark, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and Poland have had enough of it now and threatened to procure their own vaccines. We would have done the same.
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This just isn't true.
Hungary and several other EU countries have already independently procured vaccines and used them on their populations, just as we could have done.
The story below from February confirms this;

www.irishtimes.com

Hungary becomes first EU country to use Russia’s Sputnik vaccine

Country hopes to deploy China’s Sinopharm coronavirus inoculation soon
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com


Ironic that in the same post joe tells others to 'stop making up stories' - you couldn't make it up!
 
Wizaard said:
Not made up stories. Hungary have bought in the Russian vaccine. You're letting the hatred get to you.
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ElBurroSinNombre said:
This just isn't true.
Hungary and several other EU countries have already independently procured vaccines and used them on their populations, just as we could have done.
The story below from February confirms this;

www.irishtimes.com

Hungary becomes first EU country to use Russia’s Sputnik vaccine

Country hopes to deploy China’s Sinopharm coronavirus inoculation soon
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com


Ironic that in the same post joe tells others to 'stop making up stories' - you couldn't make it up!
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You're trying to change history again. All of these countries were part of the disastrous EU procurement programme. The fact that two months after we started to roll out vaccines Hungary became the first EU member state to order the Russian vaccine because it was so frustrated with the EU is exactly the point I have made through this thread. Others are now following. All are envious of the UK. All are scathing of the EU.
 
Tangojoe said:
You're trying to change history again. All of these countries were part of the disastrous EU procurement programme. The fact that two months after we started to roll out vaccines Hungary became the first EU member state to order the Russian vaccine because it was so frustrated with the EU is exactly the point I have made through this thread. Others are now following. All are envious of the UK. All are scathing of the EU.
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Not rewriting history at all. You said they had to go through the EU to order. No they didn't.
 
Wizaard said:
Not rewriting history at all. You said they had to go through the EU to order. No they didn't.
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I did not. I said they were part of the EU procurement programme that failed miserably as indeed the UK would have been. Only desperation led them to order from Russia, China and Israel.
 
Wizaard said:
There was nothing to stop them ordering early, as we did when still part of the EU, which you seem to have omitted.
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As I've posted many times they agreed to be part of the EC's procurement programme which prevented them from acting independently. We would have been part of that too and would have vaccinated 2m like they have instead of the 15m we actually rolled out by the time it all went tits up for the EU.
 
Tangojoe said:
As I've posted many times they agreed to be part of the EC's procurement programme which prevented them from acting independently. We would have been part of that too and would have vaccinated 2m like they have instead of the 15m we actually rolled out by the time it all went tits up for the EU.
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Ah, they agreed to it. And as I said, we didn't despite still being in the EU at the time. They had that choice and opted not to take it. Their choice.
 
Wizaard said:
Ah, they agreed to it. And as I said, we didn't despite still being in the EU at the time. They had that choice and opted not to take it. Their choice.
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At the risk of repeating myself to death, they were bullied into it by VDL in exactly the same way as the UK would have been when we were in the EU. And you're right. It was their choice. Only now are they realising what a bad decision that was.
 
Tangojoe said:
Stop making up stories. Hungary and others were bullied by UVDL to let the EC run the show. They had to follow the rules, as did Germany, as did France, as did Ireland and as would the UK had it been in the EU. The EC supported by France and Germany preached about unity and a united front. That's how things work in the EU. You step out of line at your peril. Austria, Denmark, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and Poland have had enough of it now and threatened to procure their own vaccines. We would have done the same.
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It's not hard to fact check.
 
Wizaard said:
Ah, they agreed to it. And as I said, we didn't despite still being in the EU at the time. They had that choice and opted not to take it. Their choice.
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shoulda, woulda, coulda, didn't. You're clutching at straws. They more than likely thought that being within the EU it would help them. It clearly only delayed them.
 
Wizaard said:
Name one time I've said anything I hate about the UK.
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I wouldn't bother Wiz. You know how this works. Any criticism of any position this country takes is automatically deemed unpatriotic. They're not RWNJ's for no reason. They'd have us in camps if some of them held any sort of power or influence. Tongueincheeksmileything.
 
tommytwojags said:
Germany and Belgium have now also removed the ban on the AZ/Oxford vaccine. Looks like the lives of European citizens is starting to outweigh the anti-UK political games.
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spot on, it was all about the politics but the left wing loonies couldn't see that because for them it's all about the politics too.[tongueincheeksmileything]
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
This just isn't true.
Hungary and several other EU countries have already independently procured vaccines and used them on their populations, just as we could have done.
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From Russia and China, and we don't know how much has actually been delivered.

I don't think I need to explain the numerous obvious problems with us going down that route.
 
20togo said:
shoulda, woulda, coulda, didn't. You're clutching at straws. They more than likely thought that being within the EU it would help them. It clearly only delayed them.
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No straws clutched. Option of autonomous decision making was there for all. You're deliberately ignoring it to make fatuous political points from the standpoint of hatred of the EU.
 
I am sure it was really sensible of Macron to make irresponsible statements about the AZ vaccine when the French were performing so badly on vaccinations and the European Medicines Agency approved it for all age groups.
 
Wizaard said:
No straws clutched. Option of autonomous decision making was there for all. You're deliberately ignoring it to make fatuous political points from the standpoint of hatred of the EU.
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shoulda, woulda, coulda, didn't. Why do you think that is? They hoped that as a collective the EU would come thru for them. They put their faith in then and were let down.
 
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