Good government, bad government ?

It also emerged that the person who originally approached the government about the deal was a government trade adviser who also advises the board of Ayanda.

OK, that's all right then.
 
Cummings obviously learnt a lot from his time in Russia on how to enrich the chosen few at the expense of a nation. Unfortunately the "silent majority", as they like to call themselves, are happy for him and Johnson to do whatever they want.
 
After such a promising start with their stance on Brexit their handling of the virus has been completely inept. They certainly are responsible for thousands of deaths with their reluctance to get prepared beforehand and their reluctance to do anything during the virus. There was no disguising the fact that the virus was on its way but they just sat back hoping it wouldn't happen.
Now they are so fixed on getting the country back open because big business is in a flap about losing money that the thought of human life doesn't matter. As usual with the Tories its come down to money and lining pockets. Surely life is more important than money, because without your health money is worth diddly. All these people now getting the virus and not being hospitalised are going to suffer long term health problems and more than likely die young. It has already been shown that the virus attacks and damages internal organs
Winter is going to be a disaster in this nation. There is no doubt going to be a surge in cases and deaths as the virus is not going to just go away and with the way this muppet government has performed so far another lockdown will kill our economy stone dead and end businesses. They should be planning now for a huge virus surge this winter and looking at ways to keep businesses running at the same time as protecting the people.
 
After such a promising start with their stance on Brexit their handling of the virus has been completely inept. They certainly are responsible for thousands of deaths with their reluctance to get prepared beforehand and their reluctance to do anything during the virus. There was no disguising the fact that the virus was on its way but they just sat back hoping it wouldn't happen.
Now they are so fixed on getting the country back open because big business is in a flap about losing money that the thought of human life doesn't matter. As usual with the Tories its come down to money and lining pockets. Surely life is more important than money, because without your health money is worth diddly. All these people now getting the virus and not being hospitalised are going to suffer long term health problems and more than likely die young. It has already been shown that the virus attacks and damages internal organs
Winter is going to be a disaster in this nation. There is no doubt going to be a surge in cases and deaths as the virus is not going to just go away and with the way this muppet government has performed so far another lockdown will kill our economy stone dead and end businesses. They should be planning now for a huge virus surge this winter and looking at ways to keep businesses running at the same time as protecting the people.
This post is just littered with unqualified opinion dressed up as reality. The sort of garbage we are force fed daily from the media.

The Government has forked out billions in financial support to ‘preserve life’.

So much so, in fact, that Britain have one of the lowest rates of employees willing to return to work in Europe (less than half the percentage compared to France).

A healthy economy is vital to ensuring the medium / long term well being of the nation and significantly more deaths will occur over time if we are not also focused on getting things moving.

There’s no evidence whatsoever that “All these people” will have organ damage or long term health issues. Just like a small minority have died, there are also a small number of people who may suffer long term issues. There’s nothing to suggest all those people will die young either.... That’s pure speculation.

Further, there’s no evidence to support “Winter being a disaster”. In fact we have no idea whether or not the virus is seasonal or whether or not it is likely to surge significantly or even at all in the U.K.

So are you bothered about the economy or not? You open up by bemoaning Government attempts to get the economy back on its feet and also bemoan them potentially locking down??? They seemingly can’t win either way!

It seems to me that they are planning for a potential increase in the coming months. Time will tell how effective they have been.
 
They have also thrown money to corporations who have then used that money to pay dividends to shareholders while making redundancies. Boris Johnson said he hoped businesses would act responsibly but our nothing in place to actually force them to do so.
 
This post is just littered with unqualified opinion dressed up as reality. The sort of garbage we are force fed daily from the media.

The Government has forked out billions in financial support to ‘preserve life’.

So much so, in fact, that Britain have one of the lowest rates of employees willing to return to work in Europe (less than half the percentage compared to France).

A healthy economy is vital to ensuring the medium / long term well being of the nation and significantly more deaths will occur over time if we are not also focused on getting things moving.

There’s no evidence whatsoever that “All these people” will have organ damage or long term health issues. Just like a small minority have died, there are also a small number of people who may suffer long term issues. There’s nothing to suggest all those people will die young either.... That’s pure speculation.

Further, there’s no evidence to support “Winter being a disaster”. In fact we have no idea whether or not the virus is seasonal or whether or not it is likely to surge significantly or even at all in the U.K.

So are you bothered about the economy or not? You open up by bemoaning Government attempts to get the economy back on its feet and also bemoan them potentially locking down??? They seemingly can’t win either way!

It seems to me that they are planning for a potential increase in the coming months. Time will tell how effective they have been.


Exactly correct.
Tough unprecedented times but some loons assume they know how it would have been done better.
 
An excellent post from the Bifster.

My concern would have been towards the initial contract and product specification of the masks.
Obviously these were passed prior to the order being placed.....it's only now that concerns are being raised on 1 type of mask.
It's a (bullshit bingo phrase) "Fluid" situation and the government can re-direct these masks so they can be used externally (Free to OAP Homes?)

Having worked with and supplied products to the NHS......they couldn't find their elbow without 2 meetings and a discussion document.
But 'WHY' didnt the government go direct to a manufacturer.....rather than an offshore 'Finance' house with 'NO'background in supplying products...??

Someones making a few £ on this deal.....for doing nothing........
 
They have also thrown money to corporations who have then used that money to pay dividends to shareholders while making redundancies. Boris Johnson said he hoped businesses would act responsibly but our nothing in place to actually force them to do so.
you know that for certain do you? Name and shame
 
This post is just littered with unqualified opinion dressed up as reality. The sort of garbage we are force fed daily from the media.

The Government has forked out billions in financial support to ‘preserve life’.

So much so, in fact, that Britain have one of the lowest rates of employees willing to return to work in Europe (less than half the percentage compared to France).

A healthy economy is vital to ensuring the medium / long term well being of the nation and significantly more deaths will occur over time if we are not also focused on getting things moving.

There’s no evidence whatsoever that “All these people” will have organ damage or long term health issues. Just like a small minority have died, there are also a small number of people who may suffer long term issues. There’s nothing to suggest all those people will die young either.... That’s pure speculation.

Further, there’s no evidence to support “Winter being a disaster”. In fact we have no idea whether or not the virus is seasonal or whether or not it is likely to surge significantly or even at all in the U.K.

So are you bothered about the economy or not? You open up by bemoaning Government attempts to get the economy back on its feet and also bemoan them potentially locking down??? They seemingly can’t win either way!

It seems to me that they are planning for a potential increase in the coming months. Time will tell how effective they have been.
There's no evidence about winter but there's huge concern, most winters stretch services to capacity as it is, with the already huge backlog it'll take very little to break the system.
 
That's why they've extended the flu vaccine to over 50s.
We haven't suffered a bad flu epidemic for about 20 years and these things run in roughly 20 year cycles. Soda law it will be this winter.
On a happier note the forecast for our Hadrian's Wall coast to coast Walk Saturday week is dry, 18° and a following wind👍
 
With regard to the o/p I guess the government have handled some things well and some things not so well. You would hope they would identify, be honest about, learn from and make changes in areas that have not gone so well (probably a bit naive to expect that though).
In some ways there are parallels with Brexit in that many people have strong views on this subject without the full facts being available so there is lots of conjecture and guesswork.

Given that we are seeing second spikes in the UK and many other countries and there are big concerns about the forthcoming winter, I would suggest it would be difficult to form a fully formed judgement on the performance of the government.

In terms of a half term report - Must do better ?
 
There's no evidence about winter but there's huge concern, most winters stretch services to capacity as it is, with the already huge backlog it'll take very little to break the system.

I think most people would accept that there will be concern about Winter and rightly so. To be concerned is one thing... To state that "Winter is going to be a disaster in this nation" as if it is some kind of fait accompli is something different altogether. As I said in my response, it's the same sort of hysterical nonsense that appears in our daily dose of fear from the media and it's unhelpful.
 
I think most people would accept that there will be concern about Winter and rightly so. To be concerned is one thing... To state that "Winter is going to be a disaster in this nation" as if it is some kind of fait accompli is something different altogether. As I said in my response, it's the same sort of hysterical nonsense that appears in our daily dose of fear from the media and it's unhelpful.
I tend to agree, the media don't seem to be carrying out any actual journalism.

The problems with PPE and testing have nothing to do with money, the media should be asking who this money is given to, what is the procurement process and why are we continually giving contracts to concerns who constantly fail to deliver.
 
With regard to the o/p I guess the government have handled some things well and some things not so well. You would hope they would identify, be honest about, learn from and make changes in areas that have not gone so well (probably a bit naive to expect that though).
In some ways there are parallels with Brexit in that many people have strong views on this subject without the full facts being available so there is lots of conjecture and guesswork.

Given that we are seeing second spikes in the UK and many other countries and there are big concerns about the forthcoming winter, I would suggest it would be difficult to form a fully formed judgement on the performance of the government.

In terms of a half term report - Must do better ?

Half-term report - Fails to attend many lessons and is rather lax on handing in homework for scrutiny. His unpreparedness and general lack of application does not auger well for his upcoming exams. He seems to struggle particularly with science and maths. Has adopted rather a supercilious attitude of late...
 
the media should be asking who this money is given to .................. and why are we continually giving contracts to concerns who constantly fail to deliver.

There's an assumption here that I'd like to test, namely that contracts and money are one and the same thing.

I noticed this in questions asked by Dawn Buttler to Matt Hancock about a number of contracts that were issued, I thought his response was actually a bit weak, she was asking about £1,000,000+ contracts awarded to questionable companies, here's the answer that she should have been given:

.........if the department enters into a contract with Dawn Buttler Limited to supply 100,000,000 items of PPE at £1 per item, that would be in your words "a hundred million pound contract"; that does not mean that you receive a cheque for £100,000,000 and get to swan off into the sunset, there are performance conditions and staged payments, if you don't deliver what is contracted for you don't get paid........

S&TSC minutes, 21 July, Q1202 onwards if you wish to check.
 
There's an assumption here that I'd like to test, namely that contracts and money are one and the same thing.

I noticed this in questions asked by Dawn Buttler to Matt Hancock about a number of contracts that were issued, I thought his response was actually a bit weak, she was asking about £1,000,000+ contracts awarded to questionable companies, here's the answer that she should have been given:

.........if the department enters into a contract with Dawn Buttler Limited to supply 100,000,000 items of PPE at £1 per item, that would be in your words "a hundred million pound contract"; that does not mean that you receive a cheque for £100,000,000 and get to swan off into the sunset, there are performance conditions and staged payments, if you don't deliver what is contracted for you don't get paid........

S&TSC minutes, 21 July, Q1202 onwards if you wish to check.
In an ideal world!
 
Could be worse you could be living in Brazil or Venezuela or Dorking where it is crap all the time with or without any virus.🇬🇧
 
What hacked me off the most was after they'd discharged patients into care homes to clear the NHS beds Tony Hancock claimed they'd thrown a protective ring around care homes when that decision alone killed thousands of vulnerable old folk.
He must think we're bleeding stupid.
 
What hacked me off the most was after they'd discharged patients into care homes to clear the NHS beds Tony Hancock claimed they'd thrown a protective ring around care homes when that decision alone killed thousands of vulnerable old folk.
He must think we're bleeding stupid.
The hospitals have become hotbeds of CV19 themselves TBF, so I'm not convinced that decision killed old people as they were just as susceptible, if not moreso had they remained in hospital. It seems to have been an issue in various countries and without access to fast and effective testing and PPE the care setting was always going to present a problem.
 
🙄 erm, aren’t you forgetting the people already in care homes who died as a result of hospitals moving patients to homes without testing. One release from hospital resulted in three dead at my mum’s care home
 
🙄 erm, aren’t you forgetting the people already in care homes who died as a result of hospitals moving patients to homes without testing. One release from hospital resulted in three dead at my mum’s care home

I supect the infections in the care setting have developed from a variety of different sources, not least the low paid staff. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that staff may have been going into work when they shouldn't have, having outside contact that may have proved risky, balancing home life and work life, kids at schools etc...

The situation wasn't ideal and there will be a point where a thorough review needs to be undertaken of what could have been done better, but it really is too early to draw many serious conclusions.

At the time we needed access to hospital beds and the testing and PPE was thin on the ground...Arguably the whole set up in our hospitals is a complete fuck up when it comes to managing the spread of this virus and ideally we shouldn't be mixing people with infectious diseases in the same buildings....We're simply not geared up for this at all and that is down to years of underfunding and a wilfull ignorance of an issue that we had been warned about.
 
We're simply not geared up for this at all and that is down to years of underfunding and a wilfull ignorance of an issue that we had been warned about.
The country had been set up with massive stocks of PPE which were supposed to be rotated to ensure they remained in date. Then the Tories sold off the stock management to a private company who did not keep the equipment up to date due to cost cutting and the end result was millions of unusable and potentially dangerous equipment being stamped with new dates without testing and when they were actually useless.
And one party have been warning about this for the last 10 years.
 
We're simply not geared up for this at all and that is down to years of underfunding and a wilfull ignorance of an issue that we had been warned about.
The country had been set up with massive stocks of PPE which were supposed to be rotated to ensure they remained in date. Then the Tories sold off the stock management to a private company who did not keep the equipment up to date due to cost cutting and the end result was millions of unusable and potentially dangerous equipment being stamped with new dates without testing and when they were actually useless.
And one party have been warning about this for the last 10 years.

Link please.
 
Sorry Cat, but yet again you let yourself down with info that just isn't true.
personal protective equipment (PPE) – gloves, aprons, surgical masks, eye protection and protective gowns don't have a best before date
OR...the bulk of non surgical (PPE) can have a shelf life running into many years
Buyers within NHS Procurement are some of the toughest in the business and NOBODY would have re-stamped a date on a box of gloves or a one use apron....

And this one party who has been talking about this for the last 10 years....would have been in exactly the same position as has the world.
Time to take off your red tinted glasses and get real.

Lost Seasider.......I'm sure you make the same request EVERY time you join a post.
 
I assume that this what Cat was referring to.Stamp / sticker .... doesn’t sound like NOBODY to me but perhaps you’d care to comment, BSideCSide

Sorry Rec3, but it's a bit hard to comment on 20 odd GP surgeries getting a box of masks that had the stock dates changed.
It really doesn't sound anything like Cats quote of.....
"millions of unusable and potentially dangerous equipment being stamped with new dates without testing and when they were actually useless".......
So 20 odd GP surgeries received (lets say) 2 boxes of 100 masks
Which would have cost the NHS about £100 - £150+vat........

Not exactly what Cat was saying.....in fact it was a gross over exaggeration

PPE isn't like fresh food or fruit that you buy at Tesco, it will not rot or spoil the longer it sits on a shelf.
Dates are normally put on health products to aid in stock control.
It will show when, where and how that product was manufactured so it can be traced in the event of a problem or needs to be recalled.

I would imagine the extreme demand for masks allowed NHS purchasing to accept a batch of older products it may have not normally have passed on but would have been perfectly fine for retailers, old folks homes, industry or anybody else.

Hope that makes sense and answers your question.......as for Cat.....just more 🐂💩
 
I supect the infections in the care setting have developed from a variety of different sources, not least the low paid staff. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that staff may have been going into work when they shouldn't have, having outside contact that may have proved risky, balancing home life and work life, kids at schools etc...

The situation wasn't ideal and there will be a point where a thorough review needs to be undertaken of what could have been done better, but it really is too early to draw many serious conclusions.

At the time we needed access to hospital beds and the testing and PPE was thin on the ground...Arguably the whole set up in our hospitals is a complete fuck up when it comes to managing the spread of this virus and ideally we shouldn't be mixing people with infectious diseases in the same buildings....We're simply not geared up for this at all and that is down to years of underfunding and a wilfull ignorance of an issue that we had been warned about.
The last decade of underinvestment in the care sector and NHS has well and truly come home to roost. Your comment about people's circumstances forcing them into work sums up the lack of appreciation both financial and emotional that was there prior to COVID.

It's taken this pandemic to highlight just how underappreciated the sector has been and weekly claps and belated spend doesn't quite make up for it.

At least going forward, any attempt to further undermine will be held to greater scrutiny.
 
Sorry Rec3, but it's a bit hard to comment on 20 odd GP surgeries getting a box of masks that had the stock dates changed.

I know it was a long article but you misread it. 20 parts of England not 20 odd GP Surgeries. One area quoted mentions lots of GP surgeries in their area, an area that covers three counties. Who knows what the total no of pieces of PPE was.
 
Sorry Rec3, but it's a bit hard to comment on 20 odd GP surgeries getting a box of masks that had the stock dates changed.
It really doesn't sound anything like Cats quote of.....
"millions of unusable and potentially dangerous equipment being stamped with new dates without testing and when they were actually useless".......
So 20 odd GP surgeries received (lets say) 2 boxes of 100 masks
Which would have cost the NHS about £100 - £150+vat........

Not exactly what Cat was saying.....in fact it was a gross over exaggeration

PPE isn't like fresh food or fruit that you buy at Tesco, it will not rot or spoil the longer it sits on a shelf.
Dates are normally put on health products to aid in stock control.
It will show when, where and how that product was manufactured so it can be traced in the event of a problem or needs to be recalled.

I would imagine the extreme demand for masks allowed NHS purchasing to accept a batch of older products it may have not normally have passed on but would have been perfectly fine for retailers, old folks homes, industry or anybody else.

Hope that makes sense and answers your question.......as for Cat.....just more 🐂💩
A lot of attempts by the right wing exponents on here to rewrite history when the truth is

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