Budget and Starmer

ElBurroSinNombre

ElBurroSinNombre

Well-known member
Budget delivered and now Starmer responding.
Where is the shadow chancellor, I thought that it was her job to respond?
Starmer is actually speaking well, actually a lot more relaxed than when at PMQs, looking more charismatic than usual.
I didn't catch most of the budget speech so can't really comment on Rishi's performance as I didn't see it.
What was in it?
And any views welcomed
 
l heard on Sunday when the shadow chancellor was being interviewed that she wouldn’t be responding as KS would be doing it, strange one that🤔
 
Just realised when I read this that traditionally he shouldn’t be responding.

The shadow chancellor is very weak though!!

It’s actually a clever budget, on the face of it, it looks like it gets companies to massively increase CAPEX over the next two years with huge tax rebates of 130%, then wack them with 25% corp tax afterwards - when their investments start to return.

Thought Rishi did well in fairness - not sure where the magic money rain forrest is though.
 
Many positive and imaginative initiatives from the Chancellor. A difficult budget for the government in the circumstances of the present pandemic requiring a brake on spending without damaging the economy any more than is absolutely necessary. I like the 'super-deduction' initiative and the expected freeport investment.

Keir Starmer's response centred on the govt papering over the cracks and the Chancellor not understanding the country's problems. However, I think Rishi understands only too well. I suspect that the public will recognise the difference between what the Chancellor is attempting to achieve and Starmer's blathering.
 
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Poultongirl said:
Fantastic budget 👍🏻🇬🇧 The conservatives are the party that care about British people👍🏻 Labour are the party the only care for themselves ☹️
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For those that don’t know, Bizzaro World (or Htrae) that featured in American DC Comic Books and was cube instead of globe shaped. It features Bizzaro versions of Superman and Lois Lane and their kids and many other Bizzaro versions of popular DC Comic characters.

To quote Wikipedia
“In the Bizarro world of "Htrae", society is ruled by the Bizarro Code which states "Us do opposite of all Earthly things! Us hate beauty! Us love ugliness! Is big crime to make anything perfect on Bizarro World!"
 
Billionaire Sunak can't stop talking about fairness and nobody will be left out of government support but he still ignores the 3 million tax payers who haven't received any proper support throughout the pandemic. Totally out of touch.
 
Leither said:
Billionaire Sunak can't stop talking about fairness and nobody will be left out of government support but he still ignores the 3 million tax payers who haven't received any proper support throughout the pandemic. Totally out of touch.
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Perhaps he can reach in his back pocket & throw a few crumbs their way 🙄
 
Pleased with the help for hospitality:

Furlough scheme continuing until September in some form
5% Vat hospitality rate continues until 30/09 and then only 12.5%
Business rates zero until 01/07 and then further discounting for remaining 9 months
Hospitality grants of £8k/£12K or £18K dependant on rateable value.

Can go forward with some optimism as long as we don't have another Lockdown.
 
Hadley said:
Pleased with the help for hospitality:

Furlough scheme continuing until September in some form
5% Vat hospitality rate continues until 30/09 and then only 12.5%
Business rates zero until 01/07 and then further discounting for remaining 9 months
Hospitality grants of £8k/£12K or £18K dependant on rateable value.

Can go forward with some optimism as long as we don't have another Lockdown.
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I take it you are in hospitality? 👍
 
The problem for Labour and Starmer is that they now have nowhere to go as the Tories have placed themselves where Labour want to be. So Starmer can criticise Rishi's Budget and say he would spend more if Labour were in power, but it just makes him sound ridiculous and Corbyn-like. Persisting with policies because they are the opposite of tory policy, even if they can't be achieved or are contrary to Labour principles, make the Labour party look silly, particularly when their policies are as changeable as the weather.

When pinned down on the budget, Anneliese Dodds is now saying Labour wouldn't spend more but would spend smarter. I think that can be translated as "I haven't got a clue about the UK's economy".

At first glance, today's budget seemed sensible, moderate, creative and fair.
 
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Bottle said:
For those that don’t know, Bizzaro World (or Htrae) that featured in American DC Comic Books and was cube instead of globe shaped. It features Bizzaro versions of Superman and Lois Lane and their kids and many other Bizzaro versions of popular DC Comic characters.

To quote Wikipedia
“In the Bizarro world of "Htrae", society is ruled by the Bizarro Code which states "Us do opposite of all Earthly things! Us hate beauty! Us love ugliness! Is big crime to make anything perfect on Bizarro World!"
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Furlough extended until the end of September but aren't we meant to coming out of lockdown on 21st June with all restrictions lifted?
 
Old_Laytonian said:
Furlough extended until the end of September but aren't we meant to coming out of lockdown on 21st June with all restrictions lifted?
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I think, that's about giving people time to get their confidence up to go out and start spending when every adult has been vaccinated. It probably gives everybody a chance to get ready for it too.

I haven't seen it read the budget yet, so that's speculation on my part.

I was surprised he didn't extend the UC £20/month much further into the future. People recieving it will spend it and that would help the economy in s very direct way. 6 months on, he may leave it alone.
 
Tangojoe said:
The problem for Labour and Starmer is that they now have nowhere to go as the Tories have placed themselves where Labour want to be.
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Perhaps more fundamentally, what is the point of a party who's only offer is more government spending when there's no scope for more spending?
 
Tangojoe said:
Starmer can criticise Rishi's Budget and say he would spend more if Labour were in power, but it just makes him sound ridiculous and Corbyn-like. Persisting with policies because they are the opposite of tory policy, even if they can't be achieved or are contrary to Labour principles, make the Labour party look silly, particularly when their policies are as changeable as the weather.
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Maybe that's why Labour has slipped from 40% to 38% in the latest Savanta ComRes poll.
 
Scaramanga said:
How can anyone take Anneliese Dodds seriously. Labour really need some new MPs.
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TangerineBayern said:
Fr Bayern and l had a discussion about this t'other day, couldn’t take her seriously before her new makeover and can’t take her seriously now!
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Something of a redundant discussion though, don`t you think?

For every Anneliese Dodd there is a Gavin Williamson.

And for every Ian Lavery or Richard Burgon there is a John Redwood or Mark Francois.

We are poorly served by both sides, unfortunately...
 
spudgun said:
Something of a redundant discussion though, don`t you think?

For every Anneliese Dodd there is a Gavin Williamson.

And for every Ian Lavery or Richard Burgon there is a John Redwood or Mark Francois.

We are poorly served by both sides, unfortunately...
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Most definitely spudgun both Parties lack quality particularly on the Front bench and are weak in a number of key positions.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Budget delivered and now Starmer responding.
Where is the shadow chancellor, I thought that it was her job to respond?
Starmer is actually speaking well, actually a lot more relaxed than when at PMQs, looking more charismatic than usual.
I didn't catch most of the budget speech so can't really comment on Rishi's performance as I didn't see it.
What was in it?
And any views welcomed
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It's an oft-held assumption that the Shadow Chancellor responds to the Chancellor's budget speech. That is incorrect. It is always the Leader of the Opposition.
 
I can't decide whether that was a clever budget or not. Some decent politics in the way that the money was spread around. I'm not sure what business will make of it though.

The projected growth figures were either very prudent or quite sobering . It won't be plain sailing.

I thought Starmer misjudged his tone a bit. He sounded a bit petulant really.
 
Rishi like most mps is personally minted without a future care in the world...
He’ll be long gone by time austerity bites and the magic money trees depleted...😎
 
Killingmesoftly said:
Rishi like most mps is personally minted without a future care in the world...
He’ll be long gone by time austerity bites and the magic money trees depleted...😎
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His wife and her family are the absolute loaded ones.

I prefer politicians who have gone out and earned a living before coming an MP the likes of Sunak,Wallace,Starmer and Lammy for example rather than career ones they will do for me.
 
basilrobbie said:
I can't decide whether that was a clever budget or not. Some decent politics in the way that the money was spread around. I'm not sure what business will make of it though.

The projected growth figures were either very prudent or quite sobering . It won't be plain sailing.

I thought Starmer misjudged his tone a bit. He sounded a bit petulant really.
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The 130% 'super deduction' seems quite inventive. There will be plenty of businesses for whom that will almost force them to invest in the next couple of years. The straight Corporation Tax rise to 25% was quite daring, I think most assumed it would rise in stages.

I was a bit disappointed that 3 out of the 8 freeport zones are in the South-East(-ish). Does 'Thames' really need that sort of help? We could really have done with Manchester Airport.

Given the circumstances, he's made decent in-roads into the debt but it will years before it is seriously reduced so worrying about it seems pointless to me.

Starmer's 'give-the-public-sector-a-pay-rise' response just seemed out of touch with the current economic reality and the whole speech was a little downbeat.
 
Poultongirl said:
Fantastic budget 👍🏻🇬🇧 The conservatives are the party that care about British people👍🏻 Labour are the party the only care for themselves ☹️
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Ask £122,000 relatives that one ‘care about British people’ ludicrous comment - they only care about themselves repeat themselves
 
Hadley said:
Pleased with the help for hospitality:

Furlough scheme continuing until September in some form
5% Vat hospitality rate continues until 30/09 and then only 12.5%
Business rates zero until 01/07 and then further discounting for remaining 9 months
Hospitality grants of £8k/£12K or £18K dependant on rateable value.

Can go forward with some optimism as long as we don't have another Lockdown.
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Hospitality has had all the money thrown at it throughout the pandemic (rightly so in some aspects) whilst the supply chain has had nothing.
 
Tangerine 77 said:
Hospitality has had all the money thrown at it throughout the pandemic (rightly so in some aspects) whilst the supply chain has had nothing.
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The supply chain will be supplying in buckets pretty soon but I agree with you wholeheartedly. We feel very lucky to have received such help and support.
 
Found it a 'nothing' budget personally. Furlough and other support payments have been announced separate of budgets for the last 12 months, so not sure why the were included now. Far be it from me to suggest they're easy headline grabbers that deflect attention from the details of other elements.

The increase in corporation tax has been timed to kick in around the next election. I'd be surprised if it sees the light of day to be honest. The ability to deduct investment costs from tax bills will also be music to the ears of certain people who will delight in ensuring creative ways of investment to underpin shareholder rewards, without actually investing. These will be similar groups who took furlough payments to survive and then pulled in healthy profits on the back of it. Will those profits be reinvested in the business or used to pay dividends....? Take a guess.
The freeze on tax free allowance will kick in for many though, pushing the burden further onto the middle. We'll have people lining up to not have a pay rise at this rate as it will be meaningless other than for pension contributions.

Also no change on inheritance tax and pension life time allowances. In other words, elements that are crucial to normal people's finances, but will be subject to inflation and will ultimately penalise the masses.

All about picking on the easy targets and supporting the paymasters. IMO of course.
 
straightatthewall said:
Found it a 'nothing' budget personally. Furlough and other support payments have been announced separate of budgets for the last 12 months, so not sure why the were included now. Far be it from me to suggest they're easy headline grabbers that deflect attention from the details of other elements.

The increase in corporation tax has been timed to kick in around the next election. I'd be surprised if it sees the light of day to be honest. The ability to deduct investment costs from tax bills will also be music to the ears of certain people who will delight in ensuring creative ways of investment to underpin shareholder rewards, without actually investing. These will be similar groups who took furlough payments to survive and then pulled in healthy profits on the back of it. Will those profits be reinvested in the business or used to pay dividends....? Take a guess.
The freeze on tax free allowance will kick in for many though, pushing the burden further onto the middle. We'll have people lining up to not have a pay rise at this rate as it will be meaningless other than for pension contributions.

Also no change on inheritance tax and pension life time allowances. In other words, elements that are crucial to normal people's finances, but will be subject to inflation and will ultimately penalise the masses.

All about picking on the easy targets and supporting the paymasters. IMO of course.
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I am very glad I have a much more positive attitude to life 👍
 
I'm another who can't see what Anneliese Dodds has to offer, compare her to Gordon Brown, who, at least, was extremely prudent whilst in office.
 
Not sure about the freeports policy
They have the potential to suck business away from the surrounding areas whilst simultaneously depriving the exchequer of revenue. I can see why they are an attractive proposition to reboot deprived areas but may have the effect of just shifting the deprivation a few miles down the road.
 
straightatthewall said:
It's not about being positive or negative One. It's about looking at how these things continually play out and taking a view that they'll happen again.
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Companies will be rushing to heavily invest over the next few years (I have spoken to some of my mates who run reasonable size businesses) and they will defo be doing it.

Most people I have met in business are decent and law abiding - yes you get the odd wrong one - but there the ones you tend to hear about.

It’s a very good idea - invest for 2 years and then the companies and gov reap rewards.

Anyone cheating the system should be brought to task.

They did it here a few years ago, one of the reasons I moved here 😎
 
Curryman said:
I'm another who can't see what Anneliese Dodds has to offer, compare her to Gordon Brown, who, at least, was extremely prudent whilst in office.
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Blimey, someone who rates Gordon Brown and hasn’t been lynched for it - a real rarity
He steered us as well as possible through the last world wide crash (not of his or our causation), saved many of our banks, savings etc and made them honour their liabilities and foreign banks where we’d invested in them, is always worth listening too when interviewed (on a higher level to any current Minister) and is not a popularist.

A very shrewd man though Sunak is the only Tory worth listening too - a zillion miles better than the rest
 
L’étranger said:
Interesting to see that Sunak doesn’t agree with the economics experts on here that say reducing corporation tax rates increases tax receipts!
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It`s interesting that the Conservatives have abandoned the `lower corporation tax equates to more government tax revenue receipts` ideology - which was a Tory tenet - and are looking to raise corporation tax, whilst Labour are currently claiming increased corporate taxation is not a good idea! The great thing about Laffer`s curve is that nobody really knows where the sweet spot is.

Looks like a case of, "Here are my principles. And if you don`t like them...well, I have some others" from both parties.

Whether any of this comes to fruition in a couple of years is perhaps contentious; a lot can go wrong in the meantime...
 
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