Ballymurphy inquest

T

Tangojoe

Well-known member
Listening to the families of the dead, it's almost impossible to conceive the atrocities perpetrated by the British army in that massacre. Shooting an innocent mother of eight and a priest tending the wounded and 17 bullets into an unarmed man. Innocent civilians shot in the back of the head. Incredible that nobody was brought to book. The Channel 4 documentary on Wednesday will be revealing but will make painful viewing.


www.theguardian.com

Ten people shot dead in Ballymurphy were innocent, inquest finds

Report says killings during British army operations in Belfast in 1971 were unjustified
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Tangojoe said:
Listening to the families of the dead, it's almost impossible to conceive the atrocities perpetrated by the British army in that massacre. Shooting an innocent mother of eight and a priest tending the wounded and 17 bullets into an unarmed man. Innocent civilians shot in the back of the head. Incredible that nobody was brought to book. The Channel 4 documentary on Wednesday will be revealing but will make painful viewing.


www.theguardian.com

Ten people shot dead in Ballymurphy were innocent, inquest finds

Report says killings during British army operations in Belfast in 1971 were unjustified
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Awaits the Support our brave boys backlash.
 
Appalling and Mike Jackson needs to be brought up formerly about his lies regarding this and five months later in Derry.
 
Wizaard said:
Awaits the Support our brave boys backlash.
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totally unnecessary comment. Anyone going in to work in a hostile environment has to have an element of braveness about them. That doesn't excuse and nor should it what happened though if innocent civilians were killed.
 
I thought the idea of Good Friday and the peace process was to leave everything in the past, all bad that was done by everyone.

I thought that it was decided that was the only way to stop the horrendous cycle of violence.

I thought pardons and letters of immunity from prosecution had been issued to all sides to move that process along.

You cannot dispute that what some soldiers did over there was awful and beyond belief.

But I think a pertinent questions is, why are all the retrospective actions now being conducted against former UK Soldiers. Has any thought ever been given to dragging up the Kingsmill massacre? Or the Greysteel massacre? Because we know who did those, letters were issued and there are still living witnesses. Why are we stopping at the soldiers? If we’re going to do this, why arnt we going for a belt and braces approach? Interesting.
 
Rektseasider said:
I thought the idea of Good Friday and the peace process was to leave everything in the past, all bad that was done by everyone.

I thought that it was decided that was the only way to stop the horrendous cycle of violence.

I thought pardons and letters of immunity from prosecution had been issued to all sides to move that process along.

You cannot dispute that what some soldiers did over there was awful and beyond belief.

But I think a pertinent questions is, why are all the retrospective actions now being conducted against former UK Soldiers. Has any thought ever been given to dragging up the Kingsmill massacre? Or the Greysteel massacre? Because we know who did those, letters were issued and there are still living witnesses. Why are we stopping at the soldiers? If we’re going to do this, why arnt we going for a belt and braces approach? Interesting.
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Bang on the money.
 
Rektseasider said:
I thought the idea of Good Friday and the peace process was to leave everything in the past, all bad that was done by everyone.

I thought that it was decided that was the only way to stop the horrendous cycle of violence.

I thought pardons and letters of immunity from prosecution had been issued to all sides to move that process along.

You cannot dispute that what some soldiers did over there was awful and beyond belief.

But I think a pertinent questions is, why are all the retrospective actions now being conducted against former UK Soldiers. Has any thought ever been given to dragging up the Kingsmill massacre? Or the Greysteel massacre? Because we know who did those, letters were issued and there are still living witnesses. Why are we stopping at the soldiers? If we’re going to do this, why arnt we going for a belt and braces approach? Interesting.
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I think that’s all fair comment.

The word, I think, is equivalence. Republican. Loyalist. Government. I don’t think a close examination of the roles played by quite a few people (including some very prominent ones) would stand a stress test if I’m honest.

If we’re into “brushing under the carpet” the brush should be indiscriminate.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I think that’s all fair comment.

The word, I think, is equivalence. Republican. Loyalist. Government. I don’t think a close examination of the roles played by quite a few people (including some very prominent ones) would stand a stress test if I’m honest.

If we’re into “brushing under the carpet” the brush should be indiscriminate.
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Yes. Agree with that.
 
Individually if people have suffered tragedy then it can be difficult to move on but as a collective all sides have to move forwards and leave the violence of the past behind.
 
I’m not au fait with this incident, it was well before my time, and I’ve had a couple of bevvies so don’t want to say something I’ll be embarrassed about tomorrow, but I’m absolutely pissed off about the fact people are crowing about something the Army may have done while we gave amnesty to a lot of IRA bastards, and then let their political bosses chase down our lads.
I don’t give a shit about the legal ins and outs of the Good Friday Agreement, but if we’re going to keep on prosecuting squaddies for crimes, then round up every terrorist we set free and put them back behind bars again.
I’m pretty sure more innocents were murdered by para militaries than squaddies.
 
Rektseasider said:
I thought the idea of Good Friday and the peace process was to leave everything in the past, all bad that was done by everyone.

I thought that it was decided that was the only way to stop the horrendous cycle of violence.

I thought pardons and letters of immunity from prosecution had been issued to all sides to move that process along.

You cannot dispute that what some soldiers did over there was awful and beyond belief.

But I think a pertinent questions is, why are all the retrospective actions now being conducted against former UK Soldiers. Has any thought ever been given to dragging up the Kingsmill massacre? Or the Greysteel massacre? Because we know who did those, letters were issued and there are still living witnesses. Why are we stopping at the soldiers? If we’re going to do this, why arnt we going for a belt and braces approach? Interesting.
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Because the British Army should be held accountable to a higher level of moral decency than terrorists, shooting innocent British civilians they were there to protect in cold blood is not that level, unless you want to hold them in the same regard as the Provisional IRA, UVF etc..
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Because the British Army should be held accountable to a higher level of moral decency than terrorists, shooting innocent British civilians they were there to protect in cold blood is not that level, unless you want to hold them in the same regard as the Provisional IRA, UVF etc..
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The article suggests that after this enquiry stronger calls are now being made for prosecutions.

So then, some people, who were probably guilty of murder are pursued, whilst hundreds if not thousands of others are left to roam the streets and live their lives. One side or the other feels growing resentment that killers from the other side are still walking free ( and in the case of Kingsmill openly taunting the victims families on social media). Which leads to a high change of resentment in one camp or the other, which filters down to the next generation, who then hate the ‘other side’ leading to a never ending cycle of hate and violence.

it’s derogatory to everyone to hold certain actors in lower regard for their actions as you are doing.

It was an inane thought process such as yours that lead to decades of death and misery over there.
I’m glad you were no where near any of this in the 90s.
 
Rektseasider said:
The article suggests that after this enquiry stronger calls are now being made for prosecutions.

So then, some people, who were probably guilty of murder are pursued, whilst hundreds if not thousands of others are left to roam the streets and live their lives. One side or the other feels growing resentment that killers from the other side are still walking free ( and in the case of Kingsmill openly taunting the victims families on social media). Which leads to a high change of resentment in one camp or the other, which filters down to the next generation, who then hate the ‘other side’ leading to a never ending cycle of hate and violence.

it’s derogatory to everyone to hold certain actors in lower regard for their actions as you are doing.

It was an inane thought process such as yours that lead to decades of death and misery over there.
I’m glad you were no where near any of this in the 90s.
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Stronger calls for prosecutions are just that, stronger calls, nowhere does it say there will be prosecutions, which I agree would be futile and counter productive.

Some of you are ever so slightly getting ahead of yourselves, this is an enquiry to hopefully bring some answers to the relatives as to why their family members were killed in cold blood, I'm not sure why you have a problem with that. It's not a witch hunt, it's not a murder trial.

Regarding your point about resentment, you're right, which is the whole point of the inquest, otherwise resentment just burns in the communities over days like this without anyone admitting blame or lying to cover up actions.

I'll ignore the 'inane comment' part of your post because you clearly didn't ** read mine properly and invented something I didn't say.
 
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If it was right that what happened at Hillsborough was exposed, then it is right that this is exposed. Nearly 50 years on. Thats the first point here. The event, and the behaviour of British soldiers towards British citizens, has to be acknowledged, not swept under the carpet.

But I do understand that it sticks in people’s craw if only soldiers were to be held to account. Realistically, with this government in charge they won’t and it’s probably for the best overall. But let’s be clear: what the soldiers did was wrong.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Stronger calls for prosecutions are just that, stronger calls, nowhere does it say there will be prosecutions, which I agree would be futile and counter productive.

Some of you are ever so slightly getting ahead of yourselves, this is an enquiry to hopefully bring some answers to the relatives as to why their family members were killed in cold blood, I'm not sure why you have a problem with that.

I'll ignore the 'inane comment' part of your post because you clearly didn't ** read mine properly and invented something I didn't say.
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I don’t know how I’m getting ahead of myself I’m commenting on what the doctrine of the peace process in N.I was over 20 years ago. There are thousands of families that were left answerless, a bitter pill both communities had to swallow to try and bring their children up in a peaceful nation, I’m sure Gene McConville’s family would like answers from Gerry Adam’s about her whereabouts?
But I suppose he shouldn’t be held up to the correct standard of human decency because he wasn’t in the British Army. 🤷‍♂️

Oh no I read it properly I just thought it was an inane argument you were putting forward, but very angry arnt you with your f’s and jeffs.
 
Rektseasider said:
I don’t know how I’m getting ahead of myself I’m commenting on what the doctrine of the peace process in N.I was over 20 years ago. There are thousands of families that were left answerless, a bitter pill both communities had to swallow to try and bring their children up in a peaceful nation, I’m sure Gene McConville’s family would like answers from Gerry Adam’s about her whereabouts?
But I suppose he shouldn’t be held up to the correct standard of human decency because he wasn’t in the British Army. 🤷‍♂️

Oh no I read it properly I just thought it was an inane argument you were putting forward, but very angry arnt you with your f’s and jeffs.
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No, I'm not angry, I just swear. Get the fuck over it.

Why do you assume that I think Gerry Adams shouldn't answer for his actions? Because I think that an inquiry in to other murders is a good thing? How do you jump to that conclusion?

Do you think Adams and the leaders of the IRA or UVF should be questioned over their roles? I do, it's a process, no one is suggesting we hunt down British soldiers while sending Adams a lovely hamper.

You do seem to be rather one sided here.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
No, I'm not angry, I just swear. Get the fuck over it.

Why do you assume that I think Gerry Adams shouldn't answer for his actions? Because I think that an inquiry in to other murders is a good thing? How do you jump to that conclusion?

Do you think Adams and the leaders of the IRA or UVF should be questioned over their roles? I do, it's a process, no one is suggesting we hunt down British soldiers while sending Adams a lovely hamper.

You do seem to be rather one sided here.
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To be honest I wasn’t under your swearing to get over it, if you need to swear often when putting a point across well then I don’t know. Each to their own.

No I haven’t jumped to conclusions, I would assume any sane person would want Adam’s under investigation. I’m merely using the McConville case and Adam’s involvement as a case in point as to unanswered questions for many people. If I masay your failure to acknowledge this and you laser focus on specifically bad soldiers paints yourself as being rather one sided. I mean in your last post you called for some actors to be held to different standards than others? Strange position to take if you believe that Adam’s crimes are of the same standard.

In the frame work of the peace process which has been largely very successful no one should be investigated, morally all of them should be investigated prosecuted and if found guilty punished. But I take it you’d be happy with say for example the Kingsmill and Greysteel perpetrators being investigated?

But it sounds like you support partially and one sided investigations and enquires in a world where complete and thorough investigations and enquires are impossible. Which only leads in reality to more simmering resentment in a place that has moved heaven and earth to move away from all that.
 
I think you are on quite dodgy ground if you associate atrocities on some tit for tat basis as a reason why this killing was somehow OK...

The people killed weren't terrorists or even members of the IRA.....they were never in the "field of battle" and they weren't involved in fighting a terror war....These people of Ballymurphy were unarmed, innocent civilians who posed no threat to soldiers......no guns, no bombs...one a Catholic priest, another a mother.....civilians.

They were shot & killed....and that's the only thing the court of law looked at.......

I believe the Army are beyond reproach.......They protected the innocent, the general public, men, women and children as they are not part of that 'terrorist war'.....But a few, went out and killed 10 unarmed people....which was/is wrong.....and those that did it should be held responsible or at least asked to atone.....That day, they didn't act as British soldiers as we know them, they did what 99.9% of British soldiers (and human beings) wouldn't do.....They let the Army down

Shooting, unarmed people...by an Army, is abhorrent......don't start to appease this 'one off' because you want to lump in the IRA terror tactics as a reason they did it.
 
Rektseasider said:
I thought the idea of Good Friday and the peace process was to leave everything in the past, all bad that was done by everyone.

I thought that it was decided that was the only way to stop the horrendous cycle of violence.

I thought pardons and letters of immunity from prosecution had been issued to all sides to move that process along.

You cannot dispute that what some soldiers did over there was awful and beyond belief.

But I think a pertinent questions is, why are all the retrospective actions now being conducted against former UK Soldiers. Has any thought ever been given to dragging up the Kingsmill massacre? Or the Greysteel massacre? Because we know who did those, letters were issued and there are still living witnesses. Why are we stopping at the soldiers? If we’re going to do this, why arnt we going for a belt and braces approach? Interesting.
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Even after all these months of "wokeness" it still hasn't clicked? I grew up through that period and remember news reports of a lot of the atrocities and agree with the comments from you and Johnno. Okay, acknowledge our wrongdoings and leave it at that otherwise where is it going to stop?
 
EagleDay said:
Even after all these months of "wokeness" it still hasn't clicked? I grew up through that period and remember news reports of a lot of the atrocities and agree with the comments from you and Johnno. Okay, acknowledge our wrongdoings and leave it at that otherwise where is it going to stop?
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Easy. It's going to stop when the few who murdered the innocent unarmed victims in cold blood are brought to justice.
 
If it gives the families closure, get those involved to stand trial, plead guilty, receive their sentences, then release them as they’re taken from court.
In the same spirit of giving closure, perhaps the IRA can give details of where the Disappeared are all buried, and all the gunmen and women who were never caught for murders committed could hand themselves in to plead guilty too.
 
There have been Military, Para Military (IRA) and many innocent civilians killed over the years.
Many innocent people, including British Army etc who didn't want to go to war in NI, but had to.
Who is right?
 
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