3 households 5 days at Christmas

Risky, but good news for 'law' abiding folk.

At least with 3 and not 0 it will hopefully stop those who were going to ignore the 0 and have 10+ meeting up actually doing that.
Re your last para, agree and think that’s probably why they’ve done it. Good for those who’ve been a bit isolated 👍
 
With a vaccine seemingly imminent I'm not sure it's the best idea. On the radio this morning I heard an epidemiologist state that transmission in the house, between people who are familiar with one another, is the way that it will spread the highest/quickest as people let their guard down and will spend lengthy periods of time together indoors.
 
Risky, but good news for 'law' abiding folk.

At least with 3 and not 0 it will hopefully stop those who were going to ignore the 0 and have 10+ meeting up actually doing that.
Do you have to declare which households and can that change from day to day?

Just stay divorced parents have their older kids over for Christmas. How does that work if they go to the other parent for Boxing Day?
 
With a vaccine seemingly imminent I'm not sure it's the best idea. On the radio this morning I heard an epidemiologist state that transmission in the house, between people who are familiar with one another, is the way that it will spread the highest/quickest as people let their guard down and will spend lengthy periods of time together indoors.
In our house we will be paying, if nec, for tests in the day or so running up as we will have a vulnerable 83yo with us. Sense.
 
We were planning to eat out on Christmas Day, me, my wife, my daughter and her partner who don’t live with us. For me It would have been far safer eating in a spacious restaurant with air conditioning than in our home, which is what’s now going to happen.
 
Do you have to declare which households and can that change from day to day?

Just stay divorced parents have their older kids over for Christmas. How does that work if they go to the other parent for Boxing Day?
You have to stick to the same bubble. However, people in a support bubble now who live alone , still count as one household for the Christmas rules. So although I don’t live with my daughter and granddaughter we are currently now one household and will be classed as one household when we visit our new Christmas household bubbles.
 
We were planning to eat out on Christmas Day, me, my wife, my daughter and her partner who don’t live with us. For me It would have been far safer eating in a spacious restaurant with air conditioning than in our home, which is what’s now going to happen.
Air conditioning just recycles the air.. it likely makes the situation worse.
 
We were planning to eat out on Christmas Day, me, my wife, my daughter and her partner who don’t live with us. For me It would have been far safer eating in a spacious restaurant with air conditioning than in our home, which is what’s now going to happen.
This is exactly the point. Any household from anywhere in the country mixing in private homes in an isolated and limited period is far more likely to see spreading than sensible controls in commercial premises.
 
which system do planes use ? According to research with mask on, and the systems planes use its very safe. Not sure if true but apparently it’s been proven.
 
which system do planes use ? According to research with mask on, and the systems planes use its very safe. Not sure if true but apparently it’s been proven.
I’m pretty sure planes can recycle air and introduce fresh and filtered air. They do often recycle as it is more fuel efficient though.

I’ve ended up with common cold two or three times due to travelling on planes.
 
Interesting X3, on long haul the same happens to me. Since September I’ve been on 11 Flights and can honestly say they’ve upped their game, it’s been pretty fresh and the distancing has been pretty good .
 
Probably spell the end for many pubs and restaurants, having owned my own pubs and restaurants, I know full well how important the Christmas period is.

November, January and February are grim and you rely on December to get you through. That means 4 very bad months in normal times. I wouldn’t like to be in the business now.
 
It all reeks of hypocrisy anyway.
Why should Christmas be different from Eid or Diwali. People were rightly quick to criticise the few people getting together and breaking lockdown for their big religious festivals, but defend changing the rules without scientific justification for Christmas because "people would ignore the rules anyway" when they should be criticising people who knowingly break the rules designed to slow down the rate of infection.
 
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t decision from the devolved Nations. 1) There will still be families who will break these guidelines and will have multiple household gatherings. 2) Those who have not been able to see loved ones for many months will abide by the guidelines and 3) There will be many families who will be carrying on with the restrictions whatever Tier they are placed on over this relaxed period knowing the implications this may/will cause.
 
How many people in a “household “, 4,6,8? Potentially over 20 people in one bubble in one house. That makes sense
 
It's not compulsory to invite Granny round people need to take personal responsibility for their actions.
The problem is though - it isn’t just about personal responsibility- a sensible family who took responsibility may well get it off a family who just followed the Xmas law.
 
The problem is though - it isn’t just about personal responsibility- a sensible family who took responsibility may well get it off a family who just followed the Xmas law.
The family I’m mixing with on Christmas Day have all abided pretty strictly to the rules all year.
We will stick to the Christmas 3 household bubble rule but won’t feel guilty taking the opportunity to meet up.
We still won’t have physical one to one contact like hugging and kissing and will keep the hand sanitiser in frequent play.
I’ll be safer than I have been in work all year probably where we now have another seriously ill staff member and 4 positive tests in one room this week 🥴
 
Lala, your last sentence just demonstrates the absurdity of it all...

I have a few random thoughts here.

One - this lifting may sound odd to you, but you’re not living in the U.K. In Singapore despite restrictions, you CAN go out to meet people who aren’t in your house. And you can meet them in public places of hospitality. On top of that the climate won’t be grey and damp and dark. So heading out for a walk round a park or local area at night might actually be appealing. The second full ‘lockdown’, came for many after a period of quasi-lockdown. It’s probably fair to say that the country on mass needs some sort of relief, because many have had their fill of doing nothing but work this year.
In order to maintain goodwill and to keep the majority abiding by the rules, some form of relaxation was vital.

All that said, I feel that this 5 day window approach is a weak idea that will do little other than facilitate the spread and cause heavy restrictions in January.

It does little to help the hospitality industry and will almost certainly see people massively increase their exposure to others (directly and indirectly) by using the window as a no-holds barred chance to fit it all in at once. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that the potential for multiple spreading will increase.

A phased and slow lifting, with sensible guidelines to allow interactions in public would have both supported an industry on its knees and given people the capability of seeing friends and loved ones without treating it like a last night of freedom.
 
Unfortunately the Government can never get it right, so it really doesn’t matter what they decided to do in regard to Christmas, you can guarantee it wouldn’t suit.

We have an opportunity to see some loved ones if we need to. It’s not a requirement or an instruction and if people seek to abuse the situation ... Well imho, they’d likely have done that anyway and frankly they’re wankers.

I don’t think a reopening (phased or otherwise) is the right answer. It sends the wrong message for me... As it is, I think people’s actions will be curtailed, by the understanding that we are still really under serious measures, but have a moment to relax, rather than the idea that it is business as usual.

It’s tough, for the hospitality industry and I hope they get all the support necessary to get back on their feet.
 
Unfortunately the Government can never get it right, so it really doesn’t matter what they decided to do in regard to Christmas, you can guarantee it wouldn’t suit.

We have an opportunity to see some loved ones if we need to. It’s not a requirement or an instruction and if people seek to abuse the situation ... Well imho, they’d likely have done that anyway and frankly they’re wankers.

I don’t think a reopening (phased or otherwise) is the right answer. It sends the wrong message for me... As it is, I think people’s actions will be curtailed, by the understanding that we are still really under serious measures, but have a moment to relax, rather than the idea that it is business as usual.

It’s tough, for the hospitality industry and I hope they get all the support necessary to get back on their feet.

I disagree that the government 'can never get it right'. Of course one size will never fit all and I'm happy to cut them more slack than i normally would, but in my view there will always be some options that are incrementally 'better' for a larger percentage of people and their emotional and commercial needs, than other solutions. Following the science is obviously very important, but so is following the sentiment and psychological state of the country.

You’re right to say that there are wankers that will do what they like. But they’ll do that anyway. It’s those amongst us who aren’t wankers but are getting pushed to the end of their tether by the drip feed effect. It’s crucial that those people don’t also to ‘fuck it’ I’ve had enough.

Im reminded of the Team America speech; there’s dicks, pussies and assholes. Dicks fuck pussies, but assholes shit all over everything. We have to ensure that the dicks don’t become assholes...
 
They've just decriminalised travel and meeting up for 4 days. Nothing more. Virus is the same etc etc...
It's fair to say that folk were going to visit family anyway
Dont mess up now!
 
Let’s face it everybody was going to do what they wanted to do, and the 3 household rules will not be adhered to, or interpreted to suit.

If everyone is sensible and avoids people showing symptoms then we don’t need Boris telling us what we can and can’t do.
 
It's fair to say that folk were going to visit family anyway

I think the gov't might be trying to turn it into a positive, follow the rules now and you can have a few (limited) days off over Christmas, the alternative being ignore the rules now and a total free for all over Christmas.
 
I disagree that the government 'can never get it right'. Of course one size will never fit all and I'm happy to cut them more slack than i normally would, but in my view there will always be some options that are incrementally 'better' for a larger percentage of people and their emotional and commercial needs, than other solutions. Following the science is obviously very important, but so is following the sentiment and psychological state of the country.

You’re right to say that there are wankers that will do what they like. But they’ll do that anyway. It’s those amongst us who aren’t wankers but are getting pushed to the end of their tether by the drip feed effect. It’s crucial that those people don’t also to ‘fuck it’ I’ve had enough.

Im reminded of the Team America speech; there’s dicks, pussies and assholes. Dicks fuck pussies, but assholes shit all over everything. We have to ensure that the dicks don’t become assholes...
For me, the opening of pubs, restaurants etc.. just adds another layer to the problem.

The overwhelming majority of the public don’t bother with them at Christmas in any case.
 
Let’s face it everybody was going to do what they wanted to do, and the 3 household rules will not be adhered to, or interpreted to suit.

If everyone is sensible and avoids people showing symptoms then we don’t need Boris telling us what we can and can’t do.
I think you’re right in the first para. And isn’t it a problem though if we are unknowingly mixing with asymptomatic people? Which is now much more likely and the point of restrictions.
 
For me, the opening of pubs, restaurants etc.. just adds another layer to the problem.

The overwhelming majority of the public don’t bother with them at Christmas in any case.

That's my point. For pubs and restaurants it's all about the run up to Christmas; just think how much money is being lost to them with no office parties, annual get-togethers and mad Friday piss ups. Clearly the latter is totally off limits for anyone trying to be responsible and show common sense, but the other two can provide a restaurant or pub with a major revenue boost in a controlled manner. Is sitting in a pub having a few drinks and stopping at 11pm any more problematic that allowing people to work in offices and factories?

Moving the socializing into private homes certainly removes the public glare and removes the barrier for many to ignore sensible options. Surfaces won't get cleaned and sanitized, the air is shared and the space will inevitably be reduced to allow a much greater potential to spread the virus.

It also funnels all the 'period' into a small confined space at the end of a year that most of us have never experienced before (or likely again). Ill-thought out by people who are out of touch with the mindset of the masses. You can call the masses thick, ignorant and selfish, but that won't change anything. They'll do what their minds tell them is right and for many, the thought of granny catching COVID won't even come into it.
 
That's my point. For pubs and restaurants it's all about the run up to Christmas; just think how much money is being lost to them with no office parties, annual get-togethers and mad Friday piss ups. Clearly the latter is totally off limits for anyone trying to be responsible and show common sense, but the other two can provide a restaurant or pub with a major revenue boost in a controlled manner. Is sitting in a pub having a few drinks and stopping at 11pm any more problematic that allowing people to work in offices and factories?

Moving the socializing into private homes certainly removes the public glare and removes the barrier for many to ignore sensible options. Surfaces won't get cleaned and sanitized, the air is shared and the space will inevitably be reduced to allow a much greater potential to spread the virus.

It also funnels all the 'period' into a small confined space at the end of a year that most of us have never experienced before (or likely again). Ill-thought out by people who are out of touch with the mindset of the masses. You can call the masses thick, ignorant and selfish, but that won't change anything. They'll do what their minds tell them is right and for many, the thought of granny catching COVID won't even come into it.
Unfortunately mate, I can’t see it... I really don’t think there is any safe or controlled way that office parties or annual get together can take place.

We know that these spaces (even if social distancing is observed) pose a significant risk for transmission. It’s impossible/impractical therefore to control considerable mixing of households and increase R rate as a result.

I also don’t agree that you are moving these events into households. I view them as additional by and large ... Nobody will be having office parties at home for example. In fact I suspect most businesses will have already put a hold on any Christmas celebrations regardless of whether pubs are open or not.... It’s not worth the risk for any business to have staff mixing in a social way really, I’d have thought.

What I would say is that the temporary relaxation should be coupled with a very strong Public Health message that encourages people not to bother and highlights the massive health risk of mixing in our homes with anyone at all.

One final comment is that I really don’t agree that restaurants and / or pubs offer any better hygiene standards than people are capable of delivering at home... My experience is that much of the sanitisation develops into token gesture type stuff, many have failed to adhere to other rules and standards, they don’t enforce standards and are scared or uncomfortable challenging customers etc... It’s certainly not the safe haven that many would have us believe... IMHO you’re as safe in your household as in a pub or restaurant.
 
Unfortunately mate, I can’t see it... I really don’t think there is any safe or controlled way that office parties or annual get together can take place.

We know that these spaces (even if social distancing is observed) pose a significant risk for transmission. It’s impossible/impractical therefore to control considerable mixing of households and increase R rate as a result.

I also don’t agree that you are moving these events into households. I view them as additional by and large ... Nobody will be having office parties at home for example. In fact I suspect most businesses will have already put a hold on any Christmas celebrations regardless of whether pubs are open or not.... It’s not worth the risk for any business to have staff mixing in a social way really, I’d have thought.

What I would say is that the temporary relaxation should be coupled with a very strong Public Health message that encourages people not to bother and highlights the massive health risk of mixing in our homes with anyone at all.

One final comment is that I really don’t agree that restaurants and / or pubs offer any better hygiene standards than people are capable of delivering at home... My experience is that much of the sanitisation develops into token gesture type stuff, many have failed to adhere to other rules and standards, they don’t enforce standards and are scared or uncomfortable challenging customers etc... It’s certainly not the safe haven that many would have us believe... IMHO you’re as safe in your household as in a pub or restaurant.

I was probably pushing it a bit by using the term office party. Obviously i don't see 100 people from Matterhorn & McClusky piling into the back room of The Butchers Wife for a sit down and disco. Nor do i see those same things going on 'behind closed doors' as a replacement. I referenced office parties because they usually generate huge amounts of money for restaurants and pubs that probably keep them afloat till March or Easter. That revenue won't be coming in and it will badly hurt some businesses and kill off others. And yes, I know there's a risk of people being killed....

I was thinking more that 6 people from an office having lunch and drinks on the boss in the local boozer or Italian shouldn't really be an issue. Same goes for having the ability in the run up to Christmas to meet mates for a few pints and a good laugh in a controlled environment where you've booked a table and it's table service etc...Limited capacity, but people getting together, spending money and - most importantly - getting some relief and release from a pretty crappy year.

I think i'm pretty tolerant and try to abide by the rules and respect for others, but i can feel myself getting dragged down by this. I figure i'm not the only one and there will be a lot of others out there who without some 'controlled fun' will push too far into the uncontrolled recklessness category.

BTW - i've found my local to be pretty on the ball with sanitation. But it's also priced at a point that rules out some of the types who don't know how to wash their hands and can only breathe through their mouths...
 
I was probably pushing it a bit by using the term office party. Obviously i don't see 100 people from Matterhorn & McClusky piling into the back room of The Butchers Wife for a sit down and disco. Nor do i see those same things going on 'behind closed doors' as a replacement. I referenced office parties because they usually generate huge amounts of money for restaurants and pubs that probably keep them afloat till March or Easter. That revenue won't be coming in and it will badly hurt some businesses and kill off others. And yes, I know there's a risk of people being killed....

I was thinking more that 6 people from an office having lunch and drinks on the boss in the local boozer or Italian shouldn't really be an issue. Same goes for having the ability in the run up to Christmas to meet mates for a few pints and a good laugh in a controlled environment where you've booked a table and it's table service etc...Limited capacity, but people getting together, spending money and - most importantly - getting some relief and release from a pretty crappy year.

I think i'm pretty tolerant and try to abide by the rules and respect for others, but i can feel myself getting dragged down by this. I figure i'm not the only one and there will be a lot of others out there who without some 'controlled fun' will push too far into the uncontrolled recklessness category.

BTW - i've found my local to be pretty on the ball with sanitation. But it's also priced at a point that rules out some of the types who don't know how to wash their hands and can only breathe through their mouths...
Unfortunately it’s what the 6 people ‘from separate households’ from the office having a meal develops into, together with numerous other similar parties etc... It’s a recipe for disaster imho and an unnecessary problem we can well do without.

It also discourages a lot of the social mixing in the younger generation, which then poses its own problems if we go on to have family (mixed age groups) get togethers.

I hope families will be sensible... We have certainly called off the usual arrangements and will perhaps see the kids, but be far more cautious.

I’m more focused on getting through the next few months to Spring and better times than Christmas if I’m being honest....
 
Unfortunately it’s what the 6 people ‘from separate households’ from the office having a meal develops into, together with numerous other similar parties etc... It’s a recipe for disaster imho and an unnecessary problem we can well do without.

It also discourages a lot of the social mixing in the younger generation, which then poses its own problems if we go on to have family (mixed age groups) get togethers.

I hope families will be sensible... We have certainly called off the usual arrangements and will perhaps see the kids, but be far more cautious.

I’m more focused on getting through the next few months to Spring and better times than Christmas if I’m being honest....
Agreed, with a way out of this pandemic so close with these vaccines i can't see the point of risking any of our families lives for the sake of one day.
You can have a party at Easter if you want.
 
That's my point. For pubs and restaurants it's all about the run up to Christmas; just think how much money is being lost to them with no office parties, annual get-togethers and mad Friday piss ups. Clearly the latter is totally off limits for anyone trying to be responsible and show common sense, but the other two can provide a restaurant or pub with a major revenue boost in a controlled manner. Is sitting in a pub having a few drinks and stopping at 11pm any more problematic that allowing people to work in offices and factories?

Moving the socializing into private homes certainly removes the public glare and removes the barrier for many to ignore sensible options. Surfaces won't get cleaned and sanitized, the air is shared and the space will inevitably be reduced to allow a much greater potential to spread the virus.

It also funnels all the 'period' into a small confined space at the end of a year that most of us have never experienced before (or likely again). Ill-thought out by people who are out of touch with the mindset of the masses. You can call the masses thick, ignorant and selfish, but that won't change anything. They'll do what their minds tell them is right and for many, the thought of granny catching COVID won't even come into it.
Responsible people should get themselves tested just before so they know they are safe for others.
 
We were planning to eat out on Christmas Day, me, my wife, my daughter and her partner who don’t live with us. For me It would have been far safer eating in a spacious restaurant with air conditioning than in our home, which is what’s now going to happen.
Or you could decide not to meet up at Xmas - rather than putting yourself at risk of covid? We've made that decision regarding my 85 year old Dad in Shropshire. Personal choice of course, but at your age you're likely to get the vaccine within 2 to 3 months.
 
It’s possible of course, but my daughter is in a bubble with us, so we are in regular contact, but yes, I’m still nervous.
 
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