Working class, middle class or other?

All depends where on the coast you are from. You can’t legitimately claim working class status in LSA or PLF. can usually tell by the accent.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Not really, about 200 quid a month for three years for a generic hatchback or similar.

I think the other half's Honda was a couple of grand, still never fails and flies through every MOT, tyres and exhaust and the odd electrical gremlin is all really, servicing is dirt cheap, it popped a top hose off once in the Lakes, two minute job with a tie wrap and lobbed a new clip on when we got home. Probably need to flush the gearbox at some point soon as it gets up to 200k.
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I think you’re getting into luck of the drawer territory for a couple of grand. Yes you can get lucky, but you can also end up wasting money on ongoing repairs etc...I’d rather just decide what I’m going to spend on a motor each month and get something I can rely on. Too much hassle for me in cheap second hand cars.... it’s a world of pain
 
I certainly find it puzzling, this class thing..

I have friends who have very little money... however, they simply ooze Middle Classedness (if that’s a word)...

I also have mates who are multiple millionaires, who couldn’t be more working class if they tried...

So personally I don’t think Wealth is even a factor...
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I certainly find it puzzling, this class thing..

I have friends who have very little money... however, they simply ooze Middle Classedness (if that’s a word)...

I also have mates who are multiple millionaires, who couldn’t be more working class if they tried...

So personally I don’t think Wealth is even a factor...
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I didn't know hippies were allowed to be millionaires?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
So are we saying that you can simply buy your way through the class system?
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No, I'm saying that the use to which money is put is a factor in the determination of social class. It can be the case that a number of factors suggesting middle-class economic values can be outweighed by working class factors such as background, cultural norms, language codes, peer groups, political and philosophical values.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
No, I'm saying that the use to which money is put is a factor in the determination of social class. It can be the case that a number of factors suggesting middle-class economic values can be outweighed by working class factors such as background, cultural norms, language codes, peer groups, political and philosophical values.
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OK so I’d very much like to become Upper Class... How do I go about it?

Would I have had to have been reared by a nanny and attended private school in order to qualify or is there a tradesman’s route?
 
1966_and_all_that said:
No, I'm saying that the use to which money is put is a factor in the determination of social class. It can be the case that a number of factors suggesting middle-class economic values can be outweighed by working class factors such as background, cultural norms, language codes, peer groups, political and philosophical values.
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Yep, income/wealth must be a factored in, along with credentials such as occupational status and education qualifications, and cultural and attitudinal stuff. Consumption must play a part too.

Class is a slippery one to define, and `middle-income` is a much easier label to apply, and probably less emotive...
 
A more tongue in cheek way to define the Working Class from the Middle Class from Noel Gallagher:

"The difference between the working class and the middle class, is that the middle class 'experiment' with drugs - the working class just get stuck in"
 
TangerinePeel said:
A more tongue in cheek way to define the Working Class from the Middle Class from Noel Gallagher:

"The difference between the working class and the middle class, is that the middle class 'experiment' with drugs - the working class just get stuck in"
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Ha! That's good. Noel is one of them people on my "he's a complete knob" list who really,I find very engaging and likable a lot of the time. He's very, very funny when he's on form.
 
td53 said:
The other thing was. And in a way it was sad, was I was buzzing to be there cos my mum and dad or grandparents didn't go to university and they (the 'posh') were all ashamed they had failed and *only* gone to that one. Again, that's an eye opener as to how class based expectations drive people without them even knowing it.
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I've also heard parents talking about getting their kids into, not just Oxford or Cambridge, but into the "right" colleges.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
OK so I’d very much like to become Upper Class... How do I go about it?

Would I have had to have been reared by a nanny and attended private school in order to qualify or is there a tradesman’s route?
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I know you post partly in jest but entry into the upper-class is almost excluded. The exception is, of course, through marriage. However, even then 'old money' protects it's own and doesn't encourage interlopers. Even in the strata of middle-class bands (B and C in social science terms), movement is possible but simply throwing cash at it is unlikely to win you over to the Henley set.
 
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1966_and_all_that said:
I know you post partly in jest but upper-cladss is almost excluded. The exception is, of course, marriage. However, even then 'old money' protects it's own and doesn't encourage interlopers. Even in the strata of middle-class bands (B and C in social science terms), movement is possible but simply throwing cash at it is unlikely to win you over to the Henley set.
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I think being Northern is probably holding me back too.

Perhaps I’ll just have to satisfy myself with being nouveau riche and save any upper class aspirations for my Granchildren....
 
I think the idea of a class that relates to money (old or new) is actually a sheer nonsense in that what does that actual mean.
It’s an artificial construct, outdated and worthless.
It doesn’t define a human being and if it does that’s a very fragile foundation on which to build your worth or identity.

I’d rather we thought in terms of how content you are, what you bring to this world and what you get out of it ( non materialistically). These are more important measurements if you want to see how you are fairing in life.

In my opinion.
 
Lala said:
I think the idea of a class that relates to money is actually a sheer nonsense in that what does that actual mean.
It’s an artificial construct, outdated and worthless.
It doesn’t define a human being and if it does that’s a very fragile foundation on which to build your worth or identity.

I’d rather we thought in terms of how content you are, what you bring to this world and what you get out of it ( non materialistically). These are more important measurements if you want to see how you are fairing in life.

In my opinion.
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But how do you award the points to become more classy?

At least if it was purely financial it’s nice and straightforward.

If you’re going to aspire to become classier, you need a nice clear route to success, not some wishy washy, airy fairy, hippy dippy stuff...
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
But how do you award the points to become more classy?

At least if it was purely financial it’s nice and straightforward.

If you’re going to aspire to become classier, you need a nice clear route to success, not some wishy washy, airy fairy, hippy dippy stuff...
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I don’t think you can aspire to being more classy in any black and white sense of the word, because I think class can mean different things to different people.

The old money class system is one interpretation of class, but it’s not one I value on any level so to me it isn’t real.
It’s an idea that’s been levelled at society for centuries but in terms of being a human being what does it actually mean.
Bugger all really, unless for some reason you want it to.
 
Lala said:
I don’t think you can aspire to being more classy in any black and white sense of the word, because I think class can mean different things to different people.

The old money class system is one interpretation of class, but it’s not one I value on any level so to me it isn’t real.
It’s an idea that’s been levelled at society for centuries but in terms of being a human being what does it actually mean.
Bugger all really, unless for some reason you want it to.
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So who would you consider to be high class, by your standards then and what are the characteristics that you admire in them?

I’m thinking maybe Stephen Fry might fit the bill perhaps...
 
Lala said:
I don’t think you can aspire to being more classy in any black and white sense of the word, because I think class can mean different things to different people.

The old money class system is one interpretation of class, but it’s not one I value on any level so to me it isn’t real.
It’s an idea that’s been levelled at society for centuries but in terms of being a human being what does it actually mean.
Bugger all really, unless for some reason you want it to.
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Class to me is holding the shop door for someone, dead easy.
 
If you wear red or yellow trousers, then you are at least aspirational, if not fully, middle class.

Not you of course Lala.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
So who would you consider to be high class, by your standards then and what are the characteristics that you admire in them?

I’m thinking maybe Stephen Fry might fit the bill perhaps...
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Again it’s something we all probably have a different viewpoint on. I accept that you and others may see my interpretation as a cheese filled cliche but it’s genuinely how I view class.
Somebody with kindness and integrity alone can fit the bill for me throw in a bit of bravery and self-motivation too for added effect if you want.
I sense a few personas on here who are full of class yet I have no idea of their financial worth or social standing.
I’m ok with you thinking my viewpoint is flimsy of flighty or an attempt at being too nice on my part, but it’s genuinely how I see this and I totally get others will disagree.
 
Lala said:
I think the idea of a class that relates to money (old or new) is actually a sheer nonsense in that what does that actual mean.
It’s an artificial construct, outdated and worthless.
It doesn’t define a human being and if it does that’s a very fragile foundation on which to build your worth or identity.

I’d rather we thought in terms of how content you are, what you bring to this world and what you get out of it ( non materialistically). These are more important measurements if you want to see how you are fairing in life.

In my opinion.
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I think that depends. At the end of the day, what you bring and get out of world is to some extent dictated by your economic status.

If you're a subsistence farming peasant or crofter, your less likely to be literate, read philosophy or engage in scientific exploration than if you are a nobleman.

That's not to say the peasant is worth less but the nobleman can, should he wish it, engage in subsistence farming but it doesn't work the other way round.

We still have peasants and noblemen, just not as obviously labeled.

Denying the presence of class as a factor in life is similar in my view to denying that gender impacts on opportunity or pay.

Maybe that's not what your saying and possibly your just saying we shouldn't as individuals judge ourselves by aspirations in which case I couldn't agree more. You're content or your not and wanting to be richer isn't the root to that.
 
td53 said:
I think that depends. At the end of the day, what you bring and get out of world is to some extent dictated by your economic status.

If you're a subsistence farming peasant or crofter, your less likely to be literate, read philosophy or engage in scientific exploration than if you are a nobleman.

That's not to say the peasant is worth less but the nobleman can, should he wish it, engage in subsistence farming but it doesn't work the other way round.

We still have peasants and noblemen, just not as obviously labeled.

Denying the presence of class as a factor in life is similar in my view to denying that gender impacts on opportunity or pay.

Maybe that's not what your saying and possibly your just saying we shouldn't as individuals judge ourselves by aspirations in which case I couldn't agree more. You're content or your not and wanting to be richer isn't the root to that.
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Yes, I mean bring to the world by way of how your presence makes other people feel and to some degree how you make yourself feel at your core being. A lot of that is determined by your character and behaviours in my opinion.
It’s hard to explain really when it’s how I feel and something I probably can’t define in writing in a way that makes others understand.
I don’t deny a financial class system is still considered valid by some and impacts peoples prospects. I mean it’s a construct built on nothing really but one society has adopted and clung onto.
I choose not to give it any merit and have been lucky enough I’ve never had to.
 
Lala said:
Again it’s something we all probably have a different viewpoint on. I accept that you and others may see my interpretation as a cheese filled cliche but it’s genuinely how I view class.
Somebody with kindness and integrity alone can fit the bill for me throw in a bit of bravery and self-motivation too for added effect if you want.
I sense a few personas on here who are full of class yet I have no idea of their financial worth or social standing.
I’m ok with you thinking my viewpoint is flimsy of flighty or an attempt at being too nice on my part, but it’s genuinely how I see this and I totally get others will disagree.
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Nope I don’t see it as cheesy at all... I’m interested in what the measure of a decent man / human being is...

I accept it’s quite hard to quantify exactly, but at least by using some examples it might be possible to get to the bottom of it...

I mean, for starters, we can eliminate John Lydon from the equation...
 
Wizzerboy said:
Being upper class you don't thank the foot man for ANYTHING, he's expected to do it 😉
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I’m aspiring nouveau riche and haven’t forgotten my working class roots. My kids don’t thank the footman, they just nod in acknowledgment... I’m encouraging my grandkids to ignore him altogether...

Steady progress 👍
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Nope I don’t see it as cheesy at all... I’m interested in what the measure of a decent man / human being is...

I accept it’s quite hard to quantify exactly, but at least by using some examples it might be possible to get to the bottom of it...

I mean, for starters, we can eliminate John Lydon from the equation...
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en.m.wikipedia.org

Malala Yousafzai - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
I don’t really want to go down the famous route because obviously cases like these show class in the extreme, and you don’t have to be extreme in any of your achievements or behaviours to demonstrate class.
But now pushed, off the top of my head, the girl,now woman I refer to in the link has so much class.
Just pure class.
But a homeless person living in a shop doorway can have it in spades in the way they handle themselves, their integrity, their core.
And by the same token a member of the royal family can be totally and utterly classless.
 
Lala said:
And by the same token a member of the royal family can be totally and utterly classless.
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I’ve been pulled up a couple of times for putting words in people’s mouths but surely you mean ‘clueless’ rather than ‘classless’
 
Lala said:
en.m.wikipedia.org

Malala Yousafzai - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
I don’t really want to go down the famous route because obviously cases like these show class in the extreme, and you don’t have to be extreme in any of your achievements or behaviours to demonstrate class.
But now pushed, off the top of my head, the girl,now woman I refer to in the link has so much class.
Just pure class.
But a homeless person living in a shop doorway can have it in spades in the way they handle themselves, their integrity, their core.
And by the same token a member of the royal family can be totally and utterly classless.
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Hmmm,

Quite a random choice...

My question though is whether (and I’ve never heard her speak) is whether she has that extra bit of je ne sais quoi....?

I get where you are coming from here, but I’m also looking for a bit of personality, not someone with a huge ego, but nonetheless someone who can hold my interest, who maybe has some life experience and a tale or two to tell...

She strikes me as potentially a little bit boring and perhaps too much of a goody two shoes...Class needs a bit more of a richer blend of education, adventurous experience, personality, grace as well as integrity (but not so much integrity as to become saint like- they need to be real/genuine)...
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Hmmm,

Quite a random choice...

My question though is whether (and I’ve never heard her speak) is whether she has that extra bit of je ne sais quoi....?

I get where you are coming from here, but I’m also looking for a bit of personality, not do one with a huge ego, but nonetheless someone who can hold my interest, who maybe has some life experience and a tale or two to tell...

She strikes me as potentially a little bit boring and perhaps too much of a goody two shoes...Class needs a bit more of a richer blend of education, adventurous experience, personality, grace as well as integrity (but not so much integrity as to become saint like- they need to be real/genuine)...
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What you’re looking for in my opinion is charisma.
That doesn’t always come with class. Some charismatic types can be totally devoid of class.
But do remember, this is only my opinion. I’m aware class is something that is very open to individual interpretation, so in some ways there is no right or wrong. Only your own viewpoint counts sometimes.
 
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