we're heading for a hung Parliament....

seasideone said:
None of them are hard right 🤣

Hard Brexit - it’s a choice (one I think is stupid) but it hardly qualifies as hard right from historical comparisons.

Rwanda - rubbish - sinking the boats maybe, flying them to place to be processed and providing decent accommodation m. Health care and living standards doesn’t qualify for hard right!

Bankers bonus’s restored - your having a laugh, most bankers didn’t want them reinstalling as the banks hiked their basics so they earned the same thing as before.

Cut in highest rate of tax - yes defo makes them far right 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Liz Truss (not a fan) - but trying to install growth (with stupidity) isn’t far right - it was just stupid!

HS2 - they cancelled a train line - yep that’s far right 🤣🤣

You’re as bad as the Mirror!! 🤣🤣
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Obviously what is hard right to some and not others all depends on where you are viewing it from.
If we are setting the bar of hard right on being the Nazis of the 30s and 40s then the Torys are the Liberal Democrats!
We need to apply a 21st century definition to hard right, there are sensible Conservative policies that have been implemented in the past but this lot have gone mad since Ukip appeared.
Out of interest what do you call hard right?
 
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gjr said:
Obviously what is hard right to some and not others all depends on where you are viewing it from.
If we are setting the bar of hard right on being the Nazis of the 30s and 40s then the Torys are the Liberal Democrats!
Out of interest what do you call hard right?
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Sinking the boats as an example!

What you are saying in reverse is that hard left could be allowing child allowance for all kids and not just the first two.

I would use the Nazis, Fascism etc as examples as that is what the general definition is.

To use your own definition has no meaning really.
 
Wizaard said:
Which left wing papers are they? There aren't any other than the Mirror and the Guardian.

The remainder are all owned by non doms pushing a Tory agenda, the Mail being the worst. Saturday's headline no mention of a thrashing for the Tories, just a spinning out yet again of the Rayner non story.
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Try answering the question I posed?
 
seasideone said:
Sinking the boats as an example!

What you are saying in reverse is that hard left could be allowing child allowance for all kids and not just the first two.

I would use the Nazis, Fascism etc as examples as that is what the general definition is.

To use your own definition has no meaning really.
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Personally i understand the two children policy, it does make some sense although many dont like it.
Sinking boats in the channel is inhuman although perversley there are many that would like it!
If they could get away with it and it won an election would a significant number of Tory MPs condone it?
 
gjr said:
Personally i understand the two children policy, it does make some sense although many dont like it.
Sinking boats in the channel is inhuman although perversley there are many that would like it!
If they could get away with it and it won an election would a significant number of Tory MPs condone it?
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If any of them did they wouldn’t be fit to be human.

The example about child allowance I was using was to demonstrate that people could say that’s hard left when it’s not using historical references.

You have, as many do, use the term hard right for policies when it’s not when compared to hard right historical policies.

…and that is part of a massive BS problem in politics today.
 
seasideone said:
If any of them did they wouldn’t be fit to be human.

The example about child allowance I was using was to demonstrate that people could say that’s hard left when it’s not using historical references.

You have, as many do, use the term hard right for policies when it’s not when compared to hard right historical policies.

…and that is part of a massive BS problem in politics today.
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But things change, what was accepted as normal less than 200 years ago is inhuman now.
Kids up chimneys or down coal mines, no health care unless you could pay for it, the workhouse.
I'm going to take it as a positive that the bar keeps being raised but the bar is rarely raised for the majority on the back of right wing policies or governments.
 
Hard right :

Removal of right to peaceful protest

Attempted removal of right to remind juries they can act according to their conscience

Forbidding persons on trial to use whatever defence they consider appropriate

Removal of right to strike.

Attempt to remove UK from ECHR

Setting up SEZs that no longer have to use UK laws in their operation

Filling the national broadcaster with placemen and donors
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Hard right :

Removal of right to peaceful protest
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You can still protest peacefully - otherwise how are the many people who protest every day doing it?
Tangerinemoss said:
Attempted removal of right to remind juries they can act according to their conscience
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Personally I don’t think it’s wrong or hard right to ask a jury to return a verdict based on the evidence!
Tangerinemoss said:
Forbidding persons on trial to use whatever defence they consider appropriate
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You would have to inform me more for comment 👍
Tangerinemoss said:
Removal of right to strike.
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If you mean minimum work levels - good - hardly right wing as France do it and they are not right wing.
Tangerinemoss said:
Attempt to remove UK from ECHR
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The amount of times this has been used to abuse the UK over the years - good - but it would need replacing with something we have control over.
Tangerinemoss said:
Setting up SEZs that no longer have to use UK laws in their operation
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They may use different laws sometimes, but they are designed to help any area grow quicker!
Tangerinemoss said:
Filling the national broadcaster with placemen and donors
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Would that be the BBC that everyone thinks is against them - so is probably quite middle ish!
 
There is no real hard right in politics in this country and as for any huge far right element, it's largely a myth of the left.

There will be tiny elements of it but most of what is labelled it today is complete rubbish and normal people with quite common views.

From an article on another thread...

The casualisation of terms like “far-Right” and “alt-Right” is of course designed to move the centre ground further to the Left by making mainstream views, ones often held by the majority of the population, appear extremist.
 
JJpool said:
There is no real hard right in politics in this country and as for any huge far right element, it's largely a myth of the left.

There will be tiny elements of it but most of what is labelled it today is complete rubbish and normal people with quite common views.

From an article on another thread...

The casualisation of terms like “far-Right” and “alt-Right” is of course designed to move the centre ground further to the Left by making mainstream views, ones often held by the majority of the population, appear extremist.
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Except that the current understanding of the centre in British politics lies very far to the right.
 
seasideone said:
You can still protest peacefully - otherwise how are the many people who protest every day doing it?

Personally I don’t think it’s wrong or hard right to ask a jury to return a verdict based on the evidence!

You would have to inform me more for comment 👍

If you mean minimum work levels - good - hardly right wing as France do it and they are not right wing.

The amount of times this has been used to abuse the UK over the years - good - but it would need replacing with something we have control over.

They may use different laws sometimes, but they are designed to help any area grow quicker!

Would that be the BBC that everyone thinks is against them - so is probably quite middle ish!
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Stop Oil protests are illegal and peaceful
It's a right going back to the 1600's, in current law, not superseded, therefore the Solicitor General's attempt to get judges to enforce it was rightly found illegal
Stopoil protestors were told in court they would be found guilty of contempt if they attempted to justify their actions with consideration of the greater good
No, as you are very aware, if one side only can set minimum service level, it removes MY right to strike
ECHR was set up after WW2 by statemaen such as Churchill to remove the ability of states to persecute its own citizens. Before you condemn it, maybe you shuld read what it's all about, like the right to life, freedom of expression, freedom to enjoy property and family life. Why would anyone wish to get rid of these?
SEZ's are the biggest scandal yet to be unearthed. Compulsory purchase of anything the operating company deems required, including land in a National Park, removal of minimum wage and any other employment law they require, private security instead of regulated police. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Have you seen how much of the BBC board is Tory, donors and senior members? Have you seen how little time they give to the LiBDems, Greens, and how much to Reform and the Tufton Street propagandists?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Stop Oil protests are illegal and peaceful
It's a right going back to the 1600's, in current law, not superseded, therefore the Solicitor General's attempt to get judges to enforce it was rightly found illegal
Stopoil protestors were told in court they would be found guilty of contempt if they attempted to justify their actions with consideration of the greater good
No, as you are very aware, if one side only can set minimum service level, it removes MY right to strike
ECHR was set up after WW2 by statemaen such as Churchill to remove the ability of states to persecute its own citizens. Before you condemn it, maybe you shuld read what it's all about, like the right to life, freedom of expression, freedom to enjoy property and family life. Why would anyone wish to get rid of these?
SEZ's are the biggest scandal yet to be unearthed. Compulsory purchase of anything the operating company deems required, including land in a National Park, removal of minimum wage and any other employment law they require, private security instead of regulated police. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Have you seen how much of the BBC board is Tory, donors and senior members? Have you seen how little time they give to the LiBDems, Greens, and how much to Reform and the Tufton Street propagandists?
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Ever heard of spacing and paragraphs?

When you do I will try and answer each point individually 👍
 
seasideone said:
Stop doing a KS and answer the questions 🤣
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Under the recent change to legislation, the Judgement Days wouldn't happen for starters. The right to protest is being eroded.

The rest of the world considers Rwanda to be unsafe because they are at war with neighbouring Congo. We passed legislation to say it is on the basis of political expediency. Oh, and the one person we sent there has already left after collecting the £3,000 bribe and disappeared to Nigeria. Great deterrent.

The so called leftie media harp on and on still about Rayner living in a house 15 years ago and ignore the hundreds of billions that have been extricated by friends and family of the current Government. Its a complete stitch up and deflection and the vast majority of the media play along with it.

The attempt to get out of ECHR is a blatant attempt to remove many hard won rights we currently have. Minimum wage, maximum hours. Freedom of movement. Freedom of everything basically.
 
Wizaard said:
Under the recent change to legislation, the Judgement Days wouldn't happen for starters. The right to protest is being eroded.

The rest of the world considers Rwanda to be unsafe because they are at war with neighbouring Congo. We passed legislation to say it is on the basis of political expediency. Oh, and the one person we sent there has already left after collecting the £3,000 bribe and disappeared to Nigeria. Great deterrent.

The so called leftie media harp on and on still about Rayner living in a house 15 years ago and ignore the hundreds of billions that have been extricated by friends and family of the current Government. Its a complete stitch up and deflection and the vast majority of the media play along with it.

The attempt to get out of ECHR is a blatant attempt to remove many hard won rights we currently have. Minimum wage, maximum hours. Freedom of movement. Freedom of everything basically.
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I think you need to look up the real definition of hard right 👍
 
seasideone said:
Exactly - non of it is far right!
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Complete deregulation is going well over that way, and the dominant wing of the Tories wants exactly that. It's all semantics.

The point is, this lot are hell bent on completely trashing everything to give them ammunition for the next 5 years. Despite all this hung parliament and economy improving gaslighting, they know they're on the way out and will cling on as long as possible to maximise their own profits and damage the chances of recovery.
 
Wizaard said:
Complete deregulation is going well over that way, and the dominant wing of the Tories wants exactly that. It's all semantics.

The point is, this lot are hell bent on completely trashing everything to give them ammunition for the next 5 years. Despite all this hung parliament and economy improving gaslighting, they know they're on the way out and will cling on as long as possible to maximise their own profits and damage the chances of recovery.
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I can’t stand the current government - but as I keep saying they are not far right.
 
Wizaard said:
For the record, are you saying that illegal immigrants don't have the status of people? Untermensch, perhaps?

And they are not all illegal. They are seeking asylum.
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Im saying there’s proper channels to seek asylum these are not coming through the proper channels as you well know so anyone with any sort of criminal history can get to our shores undetected if you think that’s a good idea plod on but I don’t and clearly the government don’t.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Im saying there’s proper channels to seek asylum these are not coming through the proper channels as you well know so anyone one with any sort of criminal history can get to our shores undetected.
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There are no proper channels. This Government have deliberately closed them to create this distraction from the shitshow of the last decade, and you've fallen for it.

You also said they weren't people.
 
seasideone said:
I’m not sure that’s correct though, most of it is just left wing paper BS.

It depends on what you call hard right I suppose - so which policies are the hard right for you?
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Which left wing paper? The Guardian are too concerned with wokey woke stuff and literally no one reads The Mirror any more.
 
Wizaard said:
There are no proper channels. This Government have deliberately closed them to create this distraction from the shitshow of the last decade, and you've fallen for it.

You also said they weren't people.
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Now come on you know dam well there are proper channels yes I agree 100% the back logs are a shit show but that’s entirely down to the amount of immigrants coming here illegally.

Maybe all these illegals should hang fire for 6 months until we can sort the back log out?

Think we all know the answer to that one.

I’m a Labour supporter as you well know but sometimes you have to admit the shear volume of illegals coming here tips the scales and were in a no win situation as it stands.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Really so you wouldn’t round up even crooks, murderers, rapists etc?

I’m shocked.

But then again it’s AVFTT so I’m not really.
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When have we ever rounded up crooks, murderers or rapists? There's due process, they're in prison fella until such time as the law decides, or are we just letting convicted murderers roam around?

Have a little think about what you're saying, you're dehumanising certain people, ** 'round up', don't be so bloody stupid.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
When have we ever rounded up crooks, murderers or rapists? There's due process, they're in prison fella until such time as the law decides, or are we just letting convicted murderers roam around?

Have a little think about what you're saying.
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The point is we have millions of illegals in this country because the current government have been completely useless, surely even the left can admit that immigration needs to be looked at, as a country we can't just keep letting in any Tom, Dick or Harry
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
The point is we have millions of illegals in this country because the current government have been completely useless, surely even the left can admit that immigration needs to be looked at, as a country we can't just keep letting in any Tom, Dick or Harry
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It does need looking at and sensible effective policies initiating, the Tories have done nothing beyond a few dog whistle policies for their support, a big bloody boat and some stupid illegal Rwanda bollocks, it doesn't serve them well if the problem goes away. Same with cnuts like Farage, they're irrelevant without the issue.

The thing I object to is the language used by some, it's dangerous.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
When have we ever rounded up crooks, murderers or rapists? There's due process, or are we just letting convicted murderers roam around?

Have a little think about what you're saying.
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But you said a normal society doesn't round up anyone.

That cannot be the case can it?

I’d agree 100% with you if we didn’t have crime in this society and we didn’t have murderers, rapists, thugs in general but do you know of any country that has a normal society?

We wouldn’t need Police and magistrates we wouldn’t need jails and detention centres sadly that’s in a dream world.

Back on topic these immigrants are arriving here illegally so it’s not normal they are breaking the law and that’s why we have laws more importantly no one knows who were letting in especially when 95% of them are single men 18-25 bracket where’s thei families?

And yes I know about that poor little girl getting crushed last week it was terrible but who crushed her? A boat full of single men desperate to get here who didn’t give a fig she was being crushed.

They would have killed the French police if they would have had weapons are these the sort of people we really need here?

We have more than enough crime on our streets right now.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
But you said a normal society doesn't round up anyone.

That cannot be the case can it?

I’d agree 100% with you if we didn’t have crime in this society and we didn’t have murderers, rapists, thugs in general but do you know of any country that has a normal society?

We wouldn’t need Police and magistrates we wouldn’t need jails and detention centres sadly that’s in a dream world.

Back on topic these immigrants are arriving here illegally so it’s not normal they are breaking the law and that’s why we have laws more importantly no one knows who were letting in especially when 95% of them are single men 18-25 bracket where’s thei families?

And yes I know about that poor little girl getting crushed last week it was terrible but who crushed her? A boat full of single men desperate to get here who didn’t give a fig she was being crushed.
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But accused aren't 'rounded up' are they? It's illegal for a start.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
It does need looking at, the Tories have done nothing beyond a few dog whistle policies for their support, it doesn't serve them well if the problem goes away. Same with cnuts like Farage, their irrelevant without the issue.

The thing I object to is the language used by some, it's dangerous.
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Fair point and very balanced

My issue is that most of the posters from the left of the political spectrum on this site just have no balance or common sense to their views and can't see past the end of their nose

Wizaard telling everyone that illegal immigrants aren't actually illegal is a prime example of complete agenda driven nonsense
 
I’m worried at the end of the day Labour don’t have a plan on stopping this illegal immigration so it’s easy to dismiss it.

Both Starmer and Yvette Cooper have both been on the box lately saying the Rwanda money should go towards stopping the gangs who are responsible for these people coming here.

I’m sorry but that has been going on for years already and has it stopped? Has it even slowed the flow down? Er no.

Now I’m not saying Rwanda is going to work because it won’t but Labour must have a clear plan on how they are going to shut the door on illegal immigration because right now they simply don’t have one and come the general election people are going to ask the same question.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I’m worried at the end of the day Labour don’t have a plan on immigration so it’s easy to dismiss it.

Both Starmer and Yvette Cooper have both been on the box lately saying the Rwanda money should go towards stopping the gangs who are responsible for these people coming here.

I’m sorry but that has been going on for years already and has it stopped? Has it even slowed the flow down? Er no.

Now I’m not saying Rwanda is going to work because it won’t but Labour must have a clear plan on how they are going to shut the door on illegal immigration because right now they simply don’t have one.
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I’m starting to think Rwanda may help stop some; mainly down to the reaction of the Irish.
 
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