Cowards

Lytham_fy8 said:
Tories, always punching downwards, fuckers with their fuckwit scared little supporters.

www.bbc.co.uk

PIP: Disabled people face end to monthly benefits cash

Disability payments that help with extra living costs could be scrapped in favour of more tailored support as the government looks at overhauling the benefits system Proposals include disabilities.
www.bbc.co.uk
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this had my wife worried this morning. . there is NO way this will ever happen. her meagre amount of cash every month does make a difference. what exactly are they going to replace it with. and how would it be decided by whom. when this effing shit shower are shown the door i will show my k...b in St annes square.
 
It's disgraceful.

After making targets of homeless people and the migrants, their next assault is on the sick and disabled. A great group to pick because they already suffered decades of silence and have no political voice or representation.

remainder removed
 
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It's the old stop the scroungers whilst the rich cream off colossal amounts without much being done. They tried to re-assess my brother In Law's PIP a few years ago (bad stroke victim), with a view to making him work, he could only walk very slowly had no use in anything much down his RHS including deaf in that ear, could speak a few phrases but not much else, he also can get yes & no mixed up. We were racking our brains to think of any job he suitable & really couldn't. My wife attended most of the previous meetings because she knew how to coax things out of him. We said to the assessor we'll send him on his own & see what you can get out of him & he'll be bringing sandwiches as it'll be a very long process. Fortunately common sense prevailed & the chap said it was because of departmental policy they were obliged to do this, I still think my wife went in with him for what turned out to be a box ticking exercise.
 
Yep, this, homeless people and boat people, classic Tory pre-election targets whilst the big fish ie water companies as an example turn our water ways into open sewers whilst paying out share holders vast amounts, and then suggesting a big increase in water bills. If you looked at the percentage of national spending on benefits etc, it's a very small fraction compared to what goes out of the public purse elsewhere. Mone and Truss between them managed to cost us more than any disadvantaged group could cost the country in 30 years.
 
To be fair I’ve always thought that the payments towards mental health claimants would be better ploughed into the NHS for mental health treatment.

I’m not sure 60 to 150 quid a week in your pocket is a cure for anxiety and depression, whereas funding mental health services with that money instead would go someway to giving people the treatment they need and subsequently better health and a better life.
 
Lala said:
To be fair I’ve always thought that the payments towards mental health claimants would be better ploughed into the NHS for mental health treatment.

I’m not sure 60 to 150 quid a week in your pocket is a cure for anxiety and depression, whereas funding mental health services with that money instead would go someway to giving people the treatment they need and subsequently better health and a better life.
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I agree Lala, the thing is they won't plough that money back into services at all.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
I agree Lala, the thing is they won't plough that money back into services at all.
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And yet that’s the obvious solution !!

The unfortunate thing is there is some truth in what he is saying. Since Covid and furlough there has been a rise in benefit claims that are unsustainable.

Some work on the current system is required, and I would imagine if Labour got in and took hold of the purse strings we would be looking at similar reforms. .
 
JOHNMAJORTOM said:
this had my wife worried this morning. . there is NO way this will ever happen. her meagre amount of cash every month does make a difference. what exactly are they going to replace it with. and how would it be decided by whom. when this effing shit shower are shown the door i will show my k...b in St annes square.
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It’ll be replaced with tax cuts for the rich or industries that Sunak’s family will benefit from.
 
Sooty59 said:
It's the old stop the scroungers whilst the rich cream off colossal amounts without much being done. They tried to re-assess my brother In Law's PIP a few years ago (bad stroke victim), with a view to making him work, he could only walk very slowly had no use in anything much down his RHS including deaf in that ear, could speak a few phrases but not much else, he also can get yes & no mixed up. We were racking our brains to think of any job he suitable & really couldn't. My wife attended most of the previous meetings because she knew how to coax things out of him. We said to the assessor we'll send him on his own & see what you can get out of him & he'll be bringing sandwiches as it'll be a very long process. Fortunately common sense prevailed & the chap said it was because of departmental policy they were obliged to do this, I still think my wife went in with him for what turned out to be a box ticking exercise.
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Stop both?

There are though genuine scroungers and I guess to attempt to find them you'd have to assess and see.

I reckon he could be a Victor Meldrew impersonator...
 
Pip is the only benefit that's not means tested...which wont change...but they will have to change the assessment criteria and frequency.

What the government are aware of is the movement of a very large number of claimant's onto low level PiP, who have been given the award for 'depression and anxiety' and this is the only 'illness' they have to show, to get the award......and there are no other checks in the system, to ensure it's required.

Imagine someone tells you you can get £50 a week for being anxious......or scoring well on your assessment, that's done over the phone...
Tell me, can you walk 50 yards unaided.......errrr No......Can you cook for yourself.......Hell No.......Can you raise your arms above your head.....??? WTF
Tell me you wont be down the GP giving them some pressure to write you up a fit note?

It can be years before you're assessed again and in that time, you can be working, chilling on the costa Brava or sitting at home doing sweet FA but still receiving the benefit.

Those that need it...will get it....
But understand, claimant's have doubled in less than 3 years because of a level of mental health that's not being checked as it's too big
The Government are just trying to close (what is) a loophole being abused by a large number of people because it's easy to do so....
 
Lala said:
And yet that’s the obvious solution !!

The unfortunate thing is there is some truth in what he is saying. Since Covid and furlough there has been a rise in benefit claims that are unsustainable.

Some work on the current system is required, and I would imagine if Labour got in and took hold of the purse strings we would be looking at similar reforms. .
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Totally agree Lala.
 
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Lala said:
I think Labour are about to be singing from a similar hymn sheet. It’s sensible, logical, and makes economical sense to create a system that is fair and gives help where it’s needed and not where it isn’t.

Life on benefits will not be an option under Labour, says Liz Kendall | Welfare | The Guardian

In Demos speech, shadow work and pensions secretary takes tough stance on welfare as she lays out plans for young
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com
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Plus there's no money left anyway.
 
Lala said:
To be fair I’ve always thought that the payments towards mental health claimants would be better ploughed into the NHS for mental health treatment.

I’m not sure 60 to 150 quid a week in your pocket is a cure for anxiety and depression, whereas funding mental health services with that money instead would go someway to giving people the treatment they need and subsequently better health and a better life.
Click to expand...
there s some truth in that, Lala, but no slack in mental health services to deal with what they have now, never mind a few hundred thousand claimants.

There is plenty of money available, the benefits bill is minuscule beside tax avoidance and evasion. Reclaim of the fraudulent Covid business payments, the substandard PPE, the SEZ finance eg Teeside, pays for all this and a rise for medics in line with MPs.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Tories, always punching downwards, fuckers with their fuckwit scared little supporters.

www.bbc.co.uk

PIP: Disabled people face end to monthly benefits cash

Disability payments that help with extra living costs could be scrapped in favour of more tailored support as the government looks at overhauling the benefits system Proposals include disabilities.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
Can't see mental health issues so it can't be real.

Heartless bastards.
 
JJpool said:
Stop both?

There are though genuine scroungers and I guess to attempt to find them you'd have to assess and see.

I reckon he could be a Victor Meldrew impersonator...
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Yeah but one would cost more to get a fraction back & the other will only be reduced by stopping some of the undoubted cronyism.
 
I still can't believe that there's those naive enough to believe any savings will be put back in to services, they've been bled dry for 14 years which is a large reason in so many being off sick, there's fuck all out there apart from a few weeks course with a bored therapist and some potentially horrendous anti depressants.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
I still can't believe that there's those naive enough to believe any savings will be put back in to services, they've been bled dry for 14 years which is a large reason in so many being off sick, there's fuck all out there apart from a few weeks course with a bored therapist and some potentially horrendous anti depressants.
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I still can’t believe that some people
think that giving someone 100+ quid a week cures or manages depression, or drug addiction, as examples.

For the latter it has the opposite effect and enables further dependency. Yet, people are paid disability benefits for such addictions. You may aswell sign their death warrant.

Work in itself is exceptionally good for your mental health. It’s not a dirty word, and people shouldn’t be afraid to advocate it.

As for anti-depressants, some are very effective and make a massive difference to some people’s quality of life.

The welfare state, when it comes to health, is a complex business, to make the naive assumption that throwing money at the individual is the kindest and only option is bizarre. Yet anything else is considered heartless 🤔
 
Tangerinemoss said:
there s some truth in that, Lala, but no slack in mental health services to deal with what they have now, never mind a few hundred thousand claimants.

There is plenty of money available, the benefits bill is minuscule beside tax avoidance and evasion. Reclaim of the fraudulent Covid business payments, the substandard PPE, the SEZ finance eg Teeside, pays for all this and a rise for medics in line with MPs.
Click to expand...
The welfare cost for the UK is not minuscule to pretty much anything!!

I suggest you look at the actual spending figures and compare - you will realise how wrong you are.
 
My wife recieves the massive sum of 115 every 28 days. She is on the mobility part of PIP. She was assessed back about 2016. We were told in the assesment bla bla bla. basically any excuse not to give her help with her daily living costs. We had been on DLA. Disability Living Allowance since 2011 . My wife was really not well at all. She was assessed by a mental health worker . We were awarded DLA for five years. I also recieved Carers Allowance. At the time about sixty odd pounds a week. A huge amount as far as i was concerned. Because i was classed by DWP as a fu9ul time carer. When my wife was moved over to PIP. WE were told it would be the same amount . 400 MONTHLY . just called somet6hing different. When the assesment came through. jeez. I was losing my carers allowance because my wife did not need help with her daily living. a huge amount of money not to be awarded. And Pip being just one quarter of DLA. we HAVE made the best of it but its just being told effing lies that really hurts.
 
Lala said:
I still can’t believe that some people
think that giving someone 100+ quid a week cures or manages depression, or drug addiction, as examples.

For the latter it has the opposite effect and enables further dependency. Yet, people are paid disability benefits for such addictions. You may aswell sign their death warrant.

Work in itself is exceptionally good for your mental health. It’s not a dirty word, and people shouldn’t be afraid to advocate it.

As for anti-depressants, some are very effective and make a massive difference to some people’s quality of life.

The welfare state, when it comes to health, is a complex business, to make the naive assumption that throwing money at the individual is the kindest and only option is bizarre. Yet anything else is considered heartless 🤔
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I worked in the community for 15 years, used to help with the applications, this isn't the reality I saw, this is a vague media reality, most depend on the money, take it away and they have nothing, how are you actually going to get people in to work when the Tories defunded most schemes, send them to the bloody job centre with their CV?

This is punishing the poorest people in society and giving them a slap on the wrist, tsssssk look at you struggling you loser, no more money for you leech boy, we're taking it away so you can't spend it all on 20/20 and fags which we know you do because our prejudices told us , but look, here's some non existent sound bite schemes mentioned in parliament to help you along.

A government should be looking out for people, this is the opposite, it's demonising people and it's a load of ** bollocks,. it's bullying people and it can fuck off.

Tell you what Sunak, get your wife to pay some ** tax eh, dickhead.
 
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Lytham_fy8 said:
I worked in the community for 15 years, used to help with the applications, this isn't the reality I saw, this is a vague media reality, most depend on the money, take it away and they have nothing, how are you actually going to get people in to work when the Tories defunded most schemes, send them to the bloody job centre with their CV?

This is punishing the poorest people in society and giving them a slap on the wrist, tsssssk look at you struggling you loser, no more money for you leech boy, we're taking it away so you can't spend it all on 20/20 and fags which we know you do because our prejudices told us , but look, here's some non existent sound bite schemes mentioned in parliament to help you along.

A government should be looking out for people, this is the opposite, it's demonising people and it's a load of ** bollocks,. it's bullying people and it can fuck off.

Tell you what Sunak, get your wife to pay some ** tax eh, dickhead.
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I disagree. We are talking here about the more than doubling of claims since the pandemic.

Also, giving money to an addict, for example , is a lazy solution that benefits no-one, especailly the customer. What kind of caring government continues to advocate that as a solution.

Work and routine are known to enhance individual esteem and self-respect. It’s the best preventer and cure of mild depression that there is.

The reforms aren’t aimed at claimants with severe and enduring mental health conditions, that would be cruel, and that isn’t happening.

And re Sunak’s wife, I thought we belittled ‘whataboutery’ on here. So thar’s a thread in it’s own right.
 
Lala said:
I disagree. We are talking here about the more than doubling of claims since the pandemic.

Also, giving money to an addict, for example , is a lazy solution that benefits no-one, especailly the customer. What kind of caring government continues to advocate that as a solution.

Work and routine are known to enhance individual esteem and self-respect. It’s the best preventer and cure of mild depression that there is.

The reforms aren’t aimed at claimants with severe and enduring mental health conditions, that would be cruel, and that isn’t happening.

And re Sunak’s wife, I thought we belittled ‘whataboutery’ on here. So thar’s a thread in it’s own right.
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I'll never belittle whataboutery, it's a main tenet of my world view, other people are just trying to be decent to indecent people, fuck 'em.

Anyway, it absolutely will effect people with serious conditions, many of who are on this level of benefit as it's not been explained or there's no capacity to claim for anything else.

You keep mentioning addicts, it's interesting to see what percentage makes up the total, from my own personal experience I'd say about 5%, unless you include fags or liking a drink on occasion.

How are you getting claimants in to jobs?
 
Perfectly proper Tory behaviour, pick on the weakest to save nothing. It constantly amazes me how few people realise what the purposes of benefits are. In economics they're called the economic stabalisers so that spending power is preserved during downturns thus recessions are shorter. The second reason (ought to be important for Tories) they protect the rich against the poor. Our Rish! is probably too stupid to know either.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
I'll never belittle whataboutery, it's a main tenet of my world view, other people are just trying to be decent to indecent people, fuck 'em.

Anyway, it absolutely will effect people with serious conditions, many of who are on this level of benefit as it's not been explained or there's no capacity to claim for anything else.

You keep mentioning addicts, it's interesting to see what percentage makes up the total, from my own personal experience I'd say about 5%, unless you include fags or liking a drink on occasion.

How are you getting claimants in to jobs?
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The benefit will still exist for claimants with severe and enduring mental health conditions, they haven’t mentioned scrapping disability benefits.

There are jobs out there, since the pandemic some have chosen a different lifestyle that doesn’t involve work. These are the ones to be imapcted with any reforms.

It’s not, surprisingly, a right or left isuue. Both parties are intending to reform the system. Times change, people evolve, and our state systems need to move with them. Let’s see what Kier has to say when Labour give more details on their welfare plans, I can see similarities ahead.
 
Something has to be done. There was a large increase last year alone. It’s an upward curve and it’s mostly the younger generation at the start of working age. The disability charities are bound to jump all over it, but then they aren’t paying for the unsustainable increase.

Lala is correct. Rather than simply dishing out cash which goes on God knows what, the help should be there for people overcome these obstacles to a normal, healthy working life.

My main worry is that the money will be redirected into other vote winning election promises.
 
Lala said:
The benefit will still exist for claimants with severe and enduring mental health conditions, they haven’t mentioned scrapping disability benefits.

There are jobs out there, since the pandemic some have chosen a different lifestyle that doesn’t involve work. These are the ones to be imapcted with any reforms.

It’s not, surprisingly, a right or left isuue. Both parties are intending to reform the system. Times change, people evolve, and our state systems need to move with them. Let’s see what Kier has to say when Labour give more details on their welfare plans, I can see similarities ahead.
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So can I because Starmer is basically a middle of the road Tory.

To suggest that only those with a 'different lifestyle to work' will be effected just isn't true.
 
Lost Seasider said:
You have examples of this?
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Talk me through Dido Harding's qualifications for being brought in to do Track and Trace at a cost of £37 billion, other than her links to Boris, Cameron and other bigwigs in the Tory Party, including being married to the laughably titled anti-corruption Czar, John Penrose. He resigned from that job after seeing nothing wrong with Partygate.

Before you respond you might want to consider that the High Court ruled that the appointment of her and her sidekick Coupe, was in breach of the Equality Act, as due process wasn't followed.

How about Matt Hancock's pub landlord?

What about Infosys getting £2 billion of contracts with Government from the owner's son in law?
 
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Wizaard said:
Talk me through Dido Harding's qualifications for being brought in to do Track and Trace at a cost of £37 billion, other than her links to Boris and other bigwigs in the Tory Party, including being married to the laughably titled anti-corruption Czar, John Penrose. He resigned from that job after seeing nothing wrong with Partygate.

How about Matt Hancock's pub landlord?

What about Infosys getting £2 billion of contracts with Government from the owner's son in law?
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Remember Dildo HARDING being on profile on Radio 4 some years back. miss perfect as i remember. Once your on trhat gravy train......
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Tories, always punching downwards, fuckers with their fuckwit scared little supporters.

www.bbc.co.uk

PIP: Disabled people face end to monthly benefits cash

Disability payments that help with extra living costs could be scrapped in favour of more tailored support as the government looks at overhauling the benefits system Proposals include disabilities.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
Is it not right that any government should look at a policy they introduced to ensure it is working effectively for those that need it ?
I do agree, wholeheartedly, that they should also cut out the scandalous nepotism that has existed throughout this government’s tenure but I am able to separate the 2 issues.
As I understand it, the article you have linked uses the word …could… they are proposals not definite actions…why so much angst ?
 
Newholland said:
Is it not right that any government should look at a policy they introduced to ensure it is working effectively for those that need it ?
I do agree, wholeheartedly, that they should also cut out the scandalous nepotism that has existed throughout this government’s tenure but I am able to separate the 2 issues.
As I understand it, the article you have linked uses the word …could… they are proposals not definite actions…why so much angst ?
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It's not angst, it's anger directed at this government and it's excusers.
 
seasideone said:
The welfare cost for the UK is not minuscule to pretty much anything!!

I suggest you look at the actual spending figures and compare - you will realise how wrong you are.
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Estimates from HMRC for tax avoidance are pretty eye watering, never mind other informed sources. Your response is what they want us to think, if you look at the wealth that has moved into the funds of billionnaires since Covid in just our own country, there is plenty of money, it is just being hoovered up and taken out into tax havens.

As a general principle, I have no problem with ensuring that benefits are given to the people mneeding them, not the tiny minority playing the system, but this constant focus on the poorest is immoral. Who has had a tax cut this Parliament, oh, yes, those poor underpaid bankers, cost £5 Billion. That covers one heck of a lot of PIP.
 
JOHNMAJORTOM said:
My wife recieves the massive sum of 115 every 28 days. She is on the mobility part of PIP. She was assessed back about 2016. We were told in the assesment bla bla bla. basically any excuse not to give her help with her daily living costs. We had been on DLA. Disability Living Allowance since 2011 . My wife was really not well at all. She was assessed by a mental health worker . We were awarded DLA for five years. I also recieved Carers Allowance. At the time about sixty odd pounds a week. A huge amount as far as i was concerned. Because i was classed by DWP as a fu9ul time carer. When my wife was moved over to PIP. WE were told it would be the same amount . 400 MONTHLY . just called somet6hing different. When the assesment came through. jeez. I was losing my carers allowance because my wife did not need help with her daily living. a huge amount of money not to be awarded. And Pip being just one quarter of DLA. we HAVE made the best of it but its just being told effing lies that really hurts.
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Your wife had been awarded lower rate mobility as she needs guidance and supervision when outdoors.You should ask for a reconsideration then if unsuccessful an appeal. Support your claim with evidence from her G P and any mental health support workers she sees.If they have conceded your wife needs help outdoors, it's not rocket science that she also needs help indoors.Encouragement is ( or should be!) classed as support.There was a supreme court ruling in 2019 re the difference between prompting (2 points) and social support (4 points).
The success rate at appeal is staggering, proving the current means of assessment are flawed.
fight the bstsrds!
 
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Goldfinger said:
Your wife had been awarded lower rate mobility as she needs guidance and supervision when outdoors.You should ask for a reconsideration then if unsuccessful an appeal. Support your claim with evidence from her G P and any mental health support workers she sees.If they have conceded your wife needs help outdoors, it's not rocket science that she also needs help indoors.Encouragement is ( or should be!) classed as support.
The success rate at appeal is staggering, proving the current means of assessment are flawed.
fight the bstsrds!
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Lower mobility can be awarded for physical mobility only, and this award applies to indoors and outdoors. It’s simply based on how far you can physically walk.
 
I don’t think they’re being cowards at all. in fact the whole benefits system in general needs a bloody good overhaul as the amount of people claiming and not working for issues such as minor mental health issues is unprecedented. I’m not going to get into a debate about labour v conservatives, but I really do think Sunak has tackled an issues that does anger working people n and is costing the country millions if not billions. Of course there are genuine people, but why the hell should the vast majority of tax payers fund a lifestyle of people sitting on their arses!? Whilst sticking two fingers up at the rest that work. It’s an easy card to play these days the olde ‘mental health card’ and quite rightly the Government should sort the lead swingers from the genuine claimants.
For starters the vast majority should get some fresh air, exercise, eat healthier and spend within their means for a start off.
 
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