Bloodtangerine
Well-known member
And you’re banging the runs in for my Ton on this Sunny happy afternoon.... thanks
I'm taking over his empire so don't get your hoped upOn the plus side Murdoch is 90 so won't be around much longer Unfortunately both Desmond and Rothmere are comparatively young and only the good die young.
Swinging and missing more like.I haven’t said anything personal.
You are hurting bad today Mexy and swinging out s’all that’s happening. I’m smiling as always
Well said Lala particularly the last paragraph.The thing about all of Boris’s misdemeanours is that they should be costing the party votes.
The fact that they aren’t tells you that people aren’t as bothered about the muck slinging at the moment, they need a party that has half a clue what it stands for.
Labour AND it’s supporters believe calling out BJ’s shortcomings is the way to win an election. Really ? That’s lazy at best.
Starmer isn’t going to turn this around. As a guy he seems decent, but the nation is awash with decent fellas. I don’t know exactly what Starmer or the party stand for right now.
They need a leader with gumption and policies to back that up. And the supporters need to lose this idea that anyone who isn’t voting Labour are stupid, deluded or selfish. This outdated attitude is losing even more party votes and garnering none at all.
They've all been kidnapped by Pierce Brosnan.Last Labour bloke i genuinely liked looked a bit like Bob Hoskins. Can't remember his name but he seemed a decent old school labour type. Not seen one like him for 10 years or more
Disco isn’t dead Dua Lipa is making it cool again!Party torn down the middle, has no policies at all, just talks in generalities about winning the public’s trust back.....in what??
Starmer isn’t inspirational and almost certainly will be ousted/resign at some stage in next 12/18 months
Then they will elect a left wing leader or if they don’t another who will be harangued by the left wing as Starmer shortly will be
Surely we need a new more centrist Party to provide the opposition that Democracy relies on. It isn’t healthy to have a one Party state which is to all intents and purposes what we have due to Labour’s total Impotence
He’s not really.It’s lovely to see the cisgender pilgarlic one in such a happy mood on here today
I’m a happy lad today as the vote just reassures me that the Great British Public know the score.He’s not really.
Actually he’s seething that his day has been ruined. It started so well with the news headlines that he thought he’d post on avftt. And then it all went down hill.
Put him right off his Peroni.
Orwell was a clever ladIn Labour's case the left-wing intelligentsia snigger at the working class and traditional Labour voters and consider them racist if they show any patriotism.
- "In intention, at any rate, the English intelligentsia are Europeanized. They take their cookery from Paris and their opinions from Moscow. In the general patriotism of the country they form a sort of island of dissident thought. England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a poor box."
- George Orwell England Your England
The fact you look down on me as an old fashioned, bald man looked upon with contempt or mock pity just shows in a nutshell why you are ALWAYS on the losing side BUT still always see yourselves as moral winnersIt’s lovely to see the cisgender pilgarlic one in such a happy mood on here today
‘Elsewhere he, (Orwell), describes nationalism more simply as “the lunatic modern habit of identifying oneself with large power units and seeing everything in terms of competitive prestige.”Orwell was a clever
He may well have said that Ciddy but I’m too stupid to understand that so prefer the one he said about left wing intellectuals‘Elsewhere he, (Orwell), describes nationalism more simply as “the lunatic modern habit of identifying oneself with large power units and seeing everything in terms of competitive prestige.”
Surely one of ‘you’ is more than plenty and why do loons like you always assume that anti-Tory means pro-LabourThe fact you look down on me as an old fashioned, bald man looked upon with contempt or mock pity just shows in a nutshell why you are ALWAYS on the losing side BUT still always see yourselves as moral winners
There’s a lot more of me than you .....as every vote shows every time
I haven’t taken any hint and have no embarrassment about anything yesterday Ciddy. In fact I don’t know what you’re on about but please feel free to not tell meSurely one of ‘you’ is more than plenty and why do loons like you always assume that anti-Tory means pro-Labour
still, good to see you taking the hint and educating yourself after your embarrassing display yesterday
Been thinking about it a bit more and he might actually have been a union leader rather than an MP. Just remember him being interviewed a few times outside Westminster. Maybe pierce was hiding in the bushes to whisk him awayThey've all been kidnapped by Pierce Brosnan.
You that know he was kind of referring to himself there don't you? It was during the height of the blitz and was wondering how the Nazis would ever be accepted if they took over.In Labour's case the left-wing intelligentsia snigger at the working class and traditional Labour voters and consider them racist if they show any patriotism.
- "In intention, at any rate, the English intelligentsia are Europeanized. They take their cookery from Paris and their opinions from Moscow. In the general patriotism of the country they form a sort of island of dissident thought. England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a poor box."
- George Orwell England Your England
10,000 votes for Farage last time round all went the way of the Tory.
Good post PeteThe bottom line is that the majority of the public don't like extreme politics, either right or left. They prefer a Government that encourages business as well as individual opportunities and improvement, but with some social conscience as well. That was the reason for Blair's success. The problem for Labour is that the Tories may have realised that they have to invest more into the social conscious and levelling up agenda. If they do manage that then Labour will have difficulty coming back. The other problem is leadership. Despite his buffoonery and failings, Boris still resonates with much of the electoral (including traditional Labour supporters) in a way that Keir and the Labour metropolitan elite just can't.
The last problem for Labour is that many of the constituency parties were taken over by the left wing / Momentum when Corbyn was leader. They will always field more left candidates and policies that don't fly anymore. They never properly reviewed why they lost so badly the last general election or just want to ignore the reasons for it
I still don’t understand it but bear in mind this is a a man who lost control of his own Farm to a bunch of animals so he can’t have been that bright can heYou that know he was kind of referring to himself there don't you? It was during the height of the blitz and was wondering how the Nazis would ever be accepted if they took over.
Anyway, I always preferred 'Nationalism is the lunatic modern habit of identifying oneself with large power units and seeing everything in terms of competitive prestige'.
His great Grandson became PM didn’t he?Contrary fellow, wasn't he old Eric
Blair was a Tory in all but name, Labour under his direction, extended privatisations, reduced access to free education, increased the commercialisation (privatisation) of the NHS, reduced workers rights, increased the freedoms from legislation for big business and the banks, and all the while pushed a religious agenda which allowed creationists and religious fundamentalists to run schools and extended the legislature which created thousads upon thousnads of new laws; and that doesnt even go close to his war-mongering tendencies and he arse licking of Bush.Repsonding directly to the OP, Labour needs to get back to a Blairite style. Centrist policies that appeal to the masses. That’s what the country votes for time and again.
The thing about all of Boris’s misdemeanours is that they should be costing the party votes.
The fact that they aren’t tells you that people aren’t as bothered about the muck slinging at the moment, they need a party that has half a clue what it stands for.
Labour AND it’s supporters believe calling out BJ’s shortcomings is the way to win an election. Really ? That’s lazy at best.
Starmer isn’t going to turn this around. As a guy he seems decent, but the nation is awash with decent fellas. I don’t know exactly what Starmer or the party stand for right now.
They need a leader with gumption and policies to back that up. And the supporters need to lose this idea that anyone who isn’t voting Labour are stupid, deluded or selfish. This outdated attitude is losing even more party votes and garnering none at all.
I'm saying last time out, the vote was split. This time round Nigels party was a complete irrelevance and the Tories benefited as a consequence.Wiz
I come in peace but you have spent a lot of time on here telling us that Sir Nigel has done nothing and playing down his influence on matters.
Now you are telling us that those who previously voted for Sir Nigel in Hartlepool have now voted Conservative and helped turn Hartlepool from red to blue.
That might very well be true but surely it would also mean that Sir Nigel has influenced things ?
For what it's worth, I'd suggest that whilst I believe Sir Nigel to be the most influential politician in UK politics in the 21st century and certainly among the most influential if not the very most, I'd also suggest that Labour's problems lie far deeper than Sir Nigel supporters changing to the Tories as these people were not born as supporters of Sir Nigel and there will have been a time not so long ago when to suggest the Tories could win any by election in Hartlepool would have been ridiculous, nevermind a mid-term by election when they have been in power.
LALA
I go with much of that and certainly your sentiment.
I don't like voting for the least chite party and it's unsustainable for the country but it's me that's not happy with Boris's/the Governments lockdown policy and not you so I have now deleted half a page of chite about what you said and I agree with you.
I think that the Tory victory in Hartlepool has a lot more to do with the Mayor in Teeside than anyone else. He's had a stunning win in his own right.Wiz
I come in peace but you have spent a lot of time on here telling us that Sir Nigel has done nothing and playing down his influence on matters.
Now you are telling us that those who previously voted for Sir Nigel in Hartlepool have now voted Conservative and helped turn Hartlepool from red to blue.
That might very well be true but surely it would also mean that Sir Nigel has influenced things ?
For what it's worth, I'd suggest that whilst I believe Sir Nigel to be the most influential politician in UK politics in the 21st century and certainly among the most influential if not the very most, I'd also suggest that Labour's problems lie far deeper than Sir Nigel supporters changing to the Tories as these people were not born as supporters of Sir Nigel and there will have been a time not so long ago when to suggest the Tories could win any by election in Hartlepool would have been ridiculous, nevermind a mid-term by election when they have been in power.
What’s up with Peroni ?He’s not really.
Actually he’s seething that his day has been ruined. It started so well with the news headlines that he thought he’d post on avftt. And then it all went down hill.
Put him right off his Peroni.
You drink that Johnny Foreigner beer , Good HeavensWhat’s up with Peroni ?
Absolutely, all premium types no matter their origin. It’s hard for you I know.You drink that Johnny Foreigner beer , Good Heavens
Nothing at allWhat’s up with Peroni ?
Actually nothing at all. I quite like it. It’s just that it sounds...well...a bit...girly.What’s up with Peroni ?
Some very good points in this thread, one I'd like to add is demographics. Boomers have always had a significant demographic advantage over generations older than them, and younger than them. If you trace the baby boomer cohort through the decades, you will see how they're able to influence governments to be favourable to them, from housing to education, often at the expense of other generations.
There's a very good talk about this by Tory peer Lord David Willets - who has some good examples to this effect:
The Labour party has to come up with something that will apply to this demographic which they have polled low with since 2010. Or wait until they die off but that's going to be another 10-20 years.
Like most posters here my issue is I don't really know where Labour stand today. I knew where they stood with Corbyn, for better or worse, but where are they now? The reinvention hasn't happened yet or they haven't done a good job of communicating it.
You don’t feel too girly in the morning after several that’s for sure.Actually nothing at all. I quite like it. It’s just that it sounds...well...a bit...girly.
Blair was a Tory in all but name
Whereas us cynical Generation X types just don't care, we're only here for the drugs.Very interesting talk that by Danny Willet and I fundamentally believe he's true in the view that despite their oft-incessant bellyaching, the Boomers are the most entitled and the most awarded generation.
Interesting to hear a Tory call for tax hikes and extra costs on their core voters. Can anyone see it coming true?
Thanks for the link BW - 45 mins well spent listening to that.
Agreed, but it’s all gone too far and I can’t see how they are going to change it with the current crop Im afraid.Lazy stereotyping that. He wasn't a traditional Labour PM. But he specifically campaigned NOT to be that. He was still a Labour PM and still tried to apply Labour-style social policies. The point is, a centre-left option is Labour's only option at present. The voting public won't vote for anything else. I'd take a centre-left Labour PM over a centre-right/right Tory PM.
I also learnt i was a Generation X type. Does that mean i have to like grunge?Whereas us Generation X types just don't care, we're only here for the drugs.
Yes. Although not Pearl Jam, no one likes Pearl Jam.I also learnt i was a Generation X type. Does that mean i have to like grunge?
I'm saying last time out, the vote was split. This time round Nigels party was a complete irrelevance and the Tories benefited as a consequence.
His new party is just a scam to make money off the gullible. He's irrelevant. If he wasn't, the vote would have been split again and Labour would have won again.
Theres no denying Labour are in deep trouble with an inability to find a sense of identity that voters can relate to.
However, that doesn't mean the Tories are doing well, just that they've been able to get away with it.
I like the film ‘Pearl necklace meets jam sandwich.’ Does that count?Yes. Although not Pearl Jam, no one likes Pearl Jam.
I think that got released the same time as 'Nirvanal' ?I like the film ‘Pearl necklace meets jam sandwich.’ Does that count?
Yes. And Alice in Chains.I think that got released the same time as 'Nirvanal' ?
I wonder how she is these days...Yes. And Alice in Chains.
I think that the Tory victory in Hartlepool has a lot more to do with the Mayor in Teeside than anyone else. He's had a stunning win in his own right.
As for Farage - he's undoubtedly been influential - his style of golf club saloon bar politics plays well with a certain demographic. But he's not been influential enough to ever get himself elected on his own merit. Which suggests that enough of us still know a wrong 'un when we see one.
Which labour style policies did Blair implement?Lazy stereotyping that. He wasn't a traditional Labour PM. But he specifically campaigned NOT to be that. He was still a Labour PM and still tried to apply Labour-style social policies. The point is, a centre-left option is Labour's only option at present. The voting public won't vote for anything else. I'd take a centre-left Labour PM over a centre-right/right Tory PM.